Super 7 Turtle figures shown at Power Con

[teemu]

Originally Posted by Dask

He has a parasitic twin inside his hat in the vintage prototype and has a meat cleaver as a leg.

Originally Posted by italianice388

I think they're more concerned about him being a (less-than-flattering) southern Italian stereotype than any of the specific gross out details of the design.

Bring it on!

[italianice388]

agreed. there’s nothing so offensive with either Pizzaface or Tattoo that they can’t be remade in 2023. If kids were playing with them in the 90s and no one got offended, then no one needs to self-induce artificial outrage in the 20s.

[Tuxedo Moroboshi]

Ignoring that he's probably a now off-limits "Playmates only" design anyway, do you guys think Doctor El would be off the table, too?

[italianice388]

good question. i could certainly see the staunchest of PC hall monitors getting bothered by his stereotypical "tribal" appearance, but ultimately he's more an elephant than a human, so i think some of the pressure is off.

could go either way.

actually, just reading his bio...

Ethnicity: Pygmy

yeah, i don't see S7 touching this.

[teemu]

Originally Posted by italianice388

good question. i could certainly see the staunchest of PC hall monitors getting bothered by his stereotypical "tribal" appearance, but ultimately he's more an elephant than a human, so i think some of the pressure is off.

could go either way.

actually, just reading his bio...yeah, i don't see S7 touching this.

I love stereo typical type figures. It's suppose to be all in fun and not taken serious. But we like in WOKE culture now and that everything offends people over the dumbest stuff

[Dask]

Originally Posted by teemu

I love stereo typical type figures. It's suppose to be all in fun and not taken serious. But we like in WOKE culture now and that everything offends people over the dumbest stuff

I was just thinking...Isn't Dreadmon a stereotypical figure, for example, he wears dreads and the contraction of "Ya mon". Is it not cultural appropriation if the figure is a mutant?

Also, the entire Street Fighter II: World Warrior cast is based on national stereotypes (and, Chief Thunder from the original Killer Instinct featured a feathered mohawk that is drilled directly into his skull; fortunately, they made a more realistic interpretation after consulting members of the Nez Percé tribe for the Xbox One reboot).

[teemu]

Originally Posted by Dask

I was just thinking...Isn't Dreadmon a stereotypical figure, for example, he wears dreads and the contraction of "Ya mon". Is it not cultural appropriation if the figure is a mutant?

Also, the entire Street Fighter II: World Warrior cast is based on national stereotypes (and, Chief Thunder from the original Killer Instinct featured a feathered mohawk that is drilled directly into his skull; fortunately, they made a more realistic interpretation after consulting members of the Nez Percé tribe for the Xbox One reboot).

I don't think NECA cares like Super-WOKE 7 does

[Y2Josh]

Originally Posted by Dask

I was just thinking...Isn't Dreadmon a stereotypical figure, for example, he wears dreads and the contraction of "Ya mon". Is it not cultural appropriation if the figure is a mutant?

Also, the entire Street Fighter II: World Warrior cast is based on national stereotypes (and, Chief Thunder from the original Killer Instinct featured a feathered mohawk that is drilled directly into his skull; fortunately, they made a more realistic interpretation after consulting members of the Nez Percé tribe for the Xbox One reboot).

I don't remember where it was (possibly Instagram or Twitter), but Varner or one of the Varner sculptors shared some photos of old masters, and one was of Chief Leo... they got completely piled on.

But I agree with you - most of these figures/characters are built around a stereotype, so I don't necessarily know where we've collectively decided "crossing the line" sits.

[italianice388]

Originally Posted by Y2Josh

..one of the Varner sculptors shared some photos of old masters, and one was of Chief Leo... they got completely piled on.

so annoying. obnoxious people just want to moralize trivialities and self congratulate. no one actually cares.

[Lordmylar06]

Originally Posted by Dask

I was just thinking...Isn't Dreadmon a stereotypical figure, for example, he wears dreads and the contraction of "Ya mon". Is it not cultural appropriation if the figure is a mutant?

While it could be argued he was created as a stereotype, Dreadmon was a human living in Jamaica when he was transformed. Also, he's not technically a mutant. He was transformed by a talisman. (I know it's arguing semantics about how he was transformed, but being a Jamaican resident beforehand gives the character a pass)

[RaphaelinSTL]

Have they come out and addressed that as the reason those characters wouldn't be made? I always assumed it was just personal preference that they wouldn't want to do Pizzaface, which was silly in itself.

[italianice388]

Originally Posted by RaphaelinSTL

Have they come out and addressed that as the reason those characters wouldn't be made? I always assumed it was just personal preference that they wouldn't want to do Pizzaface, which was silly in itself.

they never explicitly said they wouldn’t, but they have insinuated as much. was watching a stream with s7 a year or so back where they were talking about these “problematic” characters.

[mikey see]

I'm glad Brian did actually address the elephant in the room, and I can appreciate that he couldn't be entirely direct with his answers. That's got to be exhausting.

Still, I'm going to keep my optimism in check until we see wave 11. My interpretation of his answers is that we'll be getting a Rat King that is much closer to the vintage figure, but likely not a 1:1 recreation unlike the rest of the line. If that's the case then I'll either be out or EXTREMELY choosy with who I buy from here. We already know there are likely figures that they can never touch, and that alone gives me pause for whether to keep going or not. I wanted to recreate my vintage collection, ie get all of the unique mutants. If I can't do that maybe I should just put the money towards something else.

[TMNTdude87]

Originally Posted by teemu

I love stereo typical type figures. It's suppose to be all in fun and not taken serious. But we like in WOKE culture now and that everything offends people over the dumbest stuff

THIS!!!! TMNT made stereotypes over every type of nationality and ethnic group. Fans have pretty much accepted that. Super7 may be "woke" but if they were pushing for Ultimates and celebrating it as an updated version of the vintage toys then they should have made peace with the 90's representations of the various stereotypes. If they did from the beginning then why take the project on? To make money? How woke of them.

Also if one is woke how do they explain away the factory sweatshop environments these toys are likely made in? Its hypocritical to be against toys depicting negative stereotypes, and then allow the toys to be made in such inhumane conditions and profit off it. Just make the toys the fans want, and if there is contract disputes solve them and move on. This is annoying.

[staypuftweepel]

Originally Posted by RaphaelinSTL

Have they come out and addressed that as the reason those characters wouldn't be made? I always assumed it was just personal preference that they wouldn't want to do Pizzaface, which was silly in itself.

In the Toybro Video - Talking Wave 3... where he talked to Kyle for around 2 hours Kyle had mentioned that at the time they wouldn’t touch Tattoo because of him being somewhat offensive or something like that. I tried to skim through it, but he says it there somewhere. I think he said they think it’s a sensitive subject or something. Don’t forget They were the ones who changed Jitsu’s name to Chopper when they released him. Jitsu has since gone back to Jitsu ever since Mattel started releasing new toys of him.

That was also a couple months after Kung Fu Cavemen got pulled from the shelves. During that year there was a lot of Twitter people complaining about Asian cultural appropriation. maybe since things have been calm lately they’ll relax a little bit about it and release Tattoo. Probably not though.

This kind of stuff doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. How can you think Tattoo is offensive, but still pump out toys of mutant Turtles as ninjas and samurai’s? The whole toyline is a parody of different jobs and cultures. You’d think they’d be bothered by Eastman and Laird not being Japanese, but let’s face it TMNT is probably their biggest seller and they’d never want to lose all the money they’re making. They can skip Tattoo because he’s not as important as someone like the The Shredder despite both being influenced by Japanese culture. If the Shredder was an evil Sumo Wrestler you can bet he’d be made as he was and they would take the money. I guarantee if they made aTattoo that was like the original all the people who collect the line would buy him. the people who get mad on Twitter weren’t going to buy any TMNT Ultimates anyway.

I did look it up at some point because I was curious what could be the problem and I did read that Sumo wrestlers aren’t allowed to have tattoos and they can get kicked out of their group if they have them. They’re supposed to look presentable or respectable or something.

[RaphaelinSTL]

Eh. I get it. The first non-masked/non-mutant person of color to be represented in the original line, and it's basically a cultural parody of a sumo wrestler. It's of its time with toys in the 90s, especially alongside the white-washing the Human Bebop Figure. Pizzaface I'm struggling to understand their reasoning as it looks like a demented version of a Chuck E Cheese character.

Tattoo is a fun retro figure, but I'm not entirely bothered by it not making it over to a potential Super7 line.

[staypuftweepel]

Originally Posted by RaphaelinSTL

Eh. I get it. The first non-masked/non-mutant person of color to be represented in the original line, and it's basically a cultural parody of a sumo wrestler. It's of its time with toys in the 90s, especially alongside the white-washing the Human Bebop Figure. Pizzaface I'm struggling to understand their reasoning as it looks like a demented version of a Chuck E Cheese character.

Tattoo is a fun retro figure, but I'm not entirely bothered by it not making it over to a potential Super7 line.

The mutations Bebop thing was pretty lame. Too be honest with you I could care less about tattoo too. Human characters in Tmnt toy lines are always my least favorite.

I don’t think they ever said Pizza Face was off the table. I think in that interview Kyle or Toybro just said they thought he was gross and they didn’t like him.

[I Crave Pizza No More]

Originally Posted by italianice388

so annoying. obnoxious people just want to moralize trivialities and self congratulate. no one actually cares.

Or, perhaps, selfish people just want to dismiss what anyone else thinks and be allowed to remain happily ignorant.

Look, the "PC" stuff is all over the place. Some of it is dumb, but plenty of it is justified. You want an easy example? Go back and read many of the headlines and stories about the life and career of Jim Thorpe. And I mean stuff from when he was still alive, and particularly when he was still actively playing. Article after article is full of racist tropes about the "red man" and "redskins."

I am not saying this TMNT stuff deserves reconsideration--as a kid, I wasn't aware enough of anything besides my own amusement to care, and as an adult I don't see these designs as being anything but goofy--but to flatly and dismissively say "all this woke PC stuff is a joke!" is to be resigned to being a happy idiot, and I'd like to think you're capable of more than that.

[italianice388]

Originally Posted by RaphaelinSTL

Eh. I get it. The first non-masked/non-mutant person of color to be represented in the original line, and it's basically a cultural parody of a sumo wrestler. It's of its time with toys in the 90s, especially alongside the white-washing the Human Bebop Figure. Pizzaface I'm struggling to understand their reasoning as it looks like a demented version of a Chuck E Cheese character.

Tattoo is a fun retro figure, but I'm not entirely bothered by it not making it over to a potential Super7 line.

fair enough, but to me it feels like logic inconsistently applied to take issue with a japanese stereotype and not an italian one. take issue with both or with neither, imo, right? both feel relatively harmless as stereotypes go, as far as i’m concerned, which is why i think any controversy surrounding them is overblown. tmnt is entirely cartoonish cultural stereotypes all the way down. none of it is mean-spirited, and to me they're harmless.

and to your point, depictions of splinter pre-mutation were always really favorable in my mind, despite weirdly having him be dressed as if he’s from the 1800s .

Originally Posted by I Crave Pizza No More

Or, perhaps, selfish people just want to dismiss what anyone else thinks and be allowed to remain happily ignorant.

Look, the "PC" stuff is all over the place. Some of it is dumb, but plenty of it is justified. You want an easy example? Go back and read many of the headlines and stories about the life and career of Jim Thorpe. And I mean stuff from when he was still alive, and particularly when he was still actively playing. Article after article is full of racist tropes about the "red man" and "redskins."

I am not saying this TMNT stuff deserves reconsideration--as a kid, I wasn't aware enough of anything besides my own amusement to care, and as an adult I don't see these designs as being anything but goofy--but to flatly and dismissively say "all this woke PC stuff is a joke!" is to be resigned to being a happy idiot, and I'd like to think you're capable of more than that.

this feels like a pretty targeted dig. if you single someone out and call them ignorant, selfish, and an idiot (all in one go, no less) i wouldn’t be too optimistic at the chances of having a civil debate.

i can’t think of many things i’d rather do less than have a heated culture war-centric back and forth on an internet ninja turtle forum , so those will be my final words on the issue.

have a nice weekend everyone!

[Powder]

Originally Posted by italianice388

i can’t think of many things i’d rather do less than have a heated culture war-centric back and forth on an internet ninja turtle forum , so those will be my final words on the issue.

Precisely why this place is a shell of its former self, if you can pardon the unintended pun.