Super 7 Turtle figures shown at Power Con

[DonnieLaForge]

That pic puts into perspective the fact that you also will need to budget for an additional garage to park it in.

[jestergoblin]

Oh no, it won't fit on my current shelf - it's only 12 inches deep.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by IMJ

The fact is that Super 7 is fishing and calling their consumer base dumb and calling them addicts. They can justify it with BS like "tooling costs" and "elevated material costs", but even that is more manipulation that they believe will work because they clearly, in action, believe their consumer base is dumb and addicted.

Originally Posted by DonnieLaForge

Just walk into Walmart this holiday season, they usually have the aisle full of MONSTROUS plastic toys that have all sorts of exciting features, all for a price the peasantry can afford.

"Oh, but that's because they make 10's of thousands of those"

Yeah and about 90% of them end up on clearance, and yet still somehow money is made.

Plastic, and molding plastic, is not this expensive, dummies. That's been true this entire decade of toy collecting but we went along with it and now here we are.

Exactly man. Exactly.....

Originally Posted by j3h

To be fair, with the amount of negativity and hostility towards the price, Im not sure many people would post that they are buying it and having to justify their decision while being labeled a puppet or defender or worse.

On that note, one thing that the grassroots consumer doesn't tend to realize is that a lot of positive onboarding on social media is done by a company doing a viral marketing campaign.

Seriously. Don't put it past a company to create social media posts acting as if consumers are saying "Ordered mine right away!" which then catalyzes the absolute bottom of the consumer pool to think this price point is okay and to create FOMO in their minds.

Originally Posted by ToSte

The size, detail, amount of plastic as justification of cost is BS. My daughter has had Barbie and American Girl doll vehicles that are just as detailed and even larger than this thing and don't cost nearly as much. Hell you could buy a Power Wheels tank that seats 2 kids and shoots foam missiles for less.

Thank you for saying it. I was going to, but was sitting here with dissonance because I mean - let's face it - it's hard to levy the truth about these situations without blatantly calling out buyers.

I don't really judge people for how deep they go into their collections. It might seem that way, but that's missing the point. Most of my points are about the foundational greed that we are seeing across this entire hobby and combined with the irrational need to buy this stuff that some people have. That's the mechanism of action that I think is awful.

There is no justification at all other than consumer exploitation for the price point for this thing or, to be honest for the Super 7 Ultimates price point in general. It's actually more insulting in many ways that what Sideshow Toy does with almost any of their products. I will say that I give Super 7 credit for being a small company and doing what they are doing, probably with a lower economy of scale, but still.... that "credit" doesn't justify any of their pricing.

Originally Posted by jestergoblin

That's basically the BST AXN line.

I agree with this as well, but as a point - see what I was saying about the "escalation and exploitation" of the success of the Hot Toys line (usually as supported specifically by Sideshow).

I do believe that if demand is strong then price can go up in support of the demand. I really do. But there is a huge difference between a price point increase to meet demand or reward the company and consumer-buyer exploitation which is how I view Super 7 / Sideshow and many others.

But I'll also throw out there that it's a really tough area to discuss because, let's face it - if the addicts didn't shell out insanity-money for anything then the companies involved would be forced to be more competitive. I hope that if the BST AXN line is successful long-term that they don't suddenly increase those toys to 35 bucks a pop. Again, at some point the pendulum is going to swing and the eyes will be back to the aftermarket and abandons these current 1st market trends. The bottom could be really bad for these cash grabbers if it falls out suddenly from them.

Super 7 and NECA will scare-tactic the consumer with phrases like "you have to show up with the dollars to support this and that" but the truth is that at this point the best thing that could happen to the industry is for this van to fail miserably. Super 7 will kick and scream and verbally "punish buyers" by the "there's no demand for this product" narrative, but that's a manipulation. Let their product tank until they innovate with quality and pricing.

These guys think that markets survive on doubling their money with every sale, but the truth is that the long-growing companies make pennies in scale that add up. We have to stop supporting these price points, even as Gen X'ers with money and Millenials who just discovered credit.

[mikey see]

Originally Posted by IMJ

...the truth is that at this point the best thing that could happen to the industry is for this van to fail miserably. Super 7 will kick and scream and verbally "punish buyers" by the "there's no demand for this product" narrative, but that's a manipulation. Let their product tank until they innovate with quality and pricing.

This is kind of where I'm at. I can afford this thing, but I don't want it. This dumb little hobby of ours has gotten too silly expensive. I don't want to support a $500 toy TMNT van or a $350 Rancor with some bones. I want these companies to fail and know why. Otherwise next time it will be a $700 Foot Cruiser and a $500 Wampa, and on and on and on.

Toy reveals didn't used to feel so insulting, haha.

[Leo656]

There's also the fact that Super 7 is using pre-orders on this and many other high-end products in order to basically fund their entire line of licensed toys for everything. They apparently have about 70 items in pre-production now, including "Ultimates" lines for everything from The Simpsons to the movie "2001: A Space Odyssey", which I'm sure a million people begged them to do because that movie is so relevant in 2021 that it needs it own collector's line of action figures. Definitely.

They've spent the last two years gobbling up every license they can get their hands on despite the fact that TMNT is the ONLY line they've managed to produce figures for in anything resembling a timely manner. Now they have to produce products for these lines, and the reality is setting in for them that they've spread themselves way too thin. They have to deliver on their promises, but they don't physically have the resources to do so... unless they do things like this.

Their ENTIRE business model is "Rob Peter to Pay Paul", except lately they've been robbing Peter, Mark AND John to pay Paul and people are starting to notice. I mean, they're taking pre-orders on Thundercats all the way up to Wave 5 or 6, I think, AND that massive Thundertank... despite the fact that in two years we've only gotten Wave 1 of Thundercats and only three of the Wave 2 figures, since they bungled Cheetara so badly they had to send her back to the drawing board for a do-over. To say people are losing their confidence in Super 7 over things like this is an understatement. BUT, then they wave some prototype photos of cartoon-accurate G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero figures, and everyone loves them again.

I do like Super 7, and I definitely, definitely want them to succeed. I've only ever bought Masters of the Universe toys from them so far, but I've loved all that I've bought. But their business practices are really screwing them over, at this point. They got greedy and over-promised beyond what a company as small as they are can reasonably deliver. Let's not forget, they're barely even a "real" toy company; they started out as a magazine that covered toys, then became a "specialty item" company, and now they're suddenly trying to play with the big boys. That's not wise of them, no matter how great their products are, generally speaking.

In my opinion, they need to slow the f*ck down, cancel about half of their licensed lines that they've promised (the world will live without those "2001" figures, call it a hunch) and get back to focusing on a core few licenses so they can get their costs back down. It's very transparent that the Party Wagon and Thundertank are basically being used to fund everything else they hope to do, and people don't like being manipulated like that.

It's a cool looking piece, but I can't see anyone but like, Kevin Eastman himself having both the money and the room to even make any practical use of it. Someone in this thread asked "Who is this even for?" and that's a fair question to ask.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Their ENTIRE business model is "Rob Peter to Pay Paul", except lately they've been robbing Peter, Mark AND John to pay Paul and people are starting to notice.

Heh, that made me laugh.

[Leo656]

Here's another one:

"If Noah worked for Super 7, he'd still be building that ark."

Glad I could make your day, cap'n!

[teemu]

Originally Posted by Leo656

There's also the fact that Super 7 is using pre-orders on this and many other high-end products in order to basically fund their entire line of licensed toys for everything. They apparently have about 70 items in pre-production now, including "Ultimates" lines for everything from The Simpsons to the movie "2001: A Space Odyssey", which I'm sure a million people begged them to do because that movie is so relevant in 2021 that it needs it own collector's line of action figures. Definitely.

They've spent the last two years gobbling up every license they can get their hands on despite the fact that TMNT is the ONLY line they've managed to produce figures for in anything resembling a timely manner. Now they have to produce products for these lines, and the reality is setting in for them that they've spread themselves way too thin. They have to deliver on their promises, but they don't physically have the resources to do so... unless they do things like this.

Their ENTIRE business model is "Rob Peter to Pay Paul", except lately they've been robbing Peter, Mark AND John to pay Paul and people are starting to notice. I mean, they're taking pre-orders on Thundercats all the way up to Wave 5 or 6, I think, AND that massive Thundertank... despite the fact that in two years we've only gotten Wave 1 of Thundercats and only three of the Wave 2 figures, since they bungled Cheetara so badly they had to send her back to the drawing board for a do-over. To say people are losing their confidence in Super 7 over things like this is an understatement. BUT, then they wave some prototype photos of cartoon-accurate G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero figures, and everyone loves them again.

I do like Super 7, and I definitely, definitely want them to succeed. I've only ever bought Masters of the Universe toys from them so far, but I've loved all that I've bought. But their business practices are really screwing them over, at this point. They got greedy and over-promised beyond what a company as small as they are can reasonably deliver. Let's not forget, they're barely even a "real" toy company; they started out as a magazine that covered toys, then became a "specialty item" company, and now they're suddenly trying to play with the big boys. That's not wise of them, no matter how great their products are, generally speaking.

In my opinion, they need to slow the f*ck down, cancel about half of their licensed lines that they've promised (the world will live without those "2001" figures, call it a hunch) and get back to focusing on a core few licenses so they can get their costs back down. It's very transparent that the Party Wagon and Thundertank are basically being used to fund everything else they hope to do, and people don't like being manipulated like that.

It's a cool looking piece, but I can't see anyone but like, Kevin Eastman himself having both the money and the room to even make any practical use of it. Someone in this thread asked "Who is this even for?" and that's a fair question to ask.

I agree

Super7 needs to start delivering on product that's been already pre-sold. They have taken thousands of dollars from people while we get to wait and wait and then hear excuses for the delays. In the mean time, they have our money already and then they keep asking for more. There is no way I am giving them another $500 for an over-priced turtle van and then have to wait a year and a half to get it. (and I don't care if BBTS is offering it. They want a $125 deposit)

[italianice388]

Lots of really great takes in this thread. I love the TMNT Ultimates line from S7, but I agree with everyone. I'm not buying this.

[Filespit]

I do like the design of this thing, but I agree with many of you, this is way overpriced. The figures are expensive enough as they are. Being an international, I'd probably end up paying around $600+ for this thing even through retailers.

[EddieNES]

Has there ever been a toy/vehicle release that read the room and did a price drop based on feedback?

I fee like the collectible community doesn’t have as much weight compared to say when Xbox tried to raise the price of Live and got shunned and reversed course.

[Dask]

Originally Posted by EddieNES

Has there ever been a toy/vehicle release that read the room and did a price drop based on feedback?

I fee like the collectible community doesn’t have as much weight compared to say when Xbox tried to raise the price of Live and got shunned and reversed course.

Not sure, but sometimes even the voices of the gaming community lacks the empowerment to get things moving.

For example, 1up Arcades hit the sweet spot with $200 to $400 arcade units (downsized but with better LCD screens and audio and wifi). Normal deluxe non-1up arcades always sold for around the $800 to $3000 price tag. Recently 1up did a puzzling move by selling their arcades for $600 to $800 without adding anything significant aside from wifi integration. Now, as their prices reach that of conventional arcades, they've effectively undermined their value proposition.

[frank_one]

I'm not sure S7 can actually lower the price without losing money or lowering the quality of their products. From what I understand they have high production costs due to the fact that they aren't producing big numbers of units per item. They don't have the same numbers of Neca, they are a smaller niche company. Basically everything they due is upon preorder.

[Leo656]

Supposedly the guy Brian who works for Super 7 did a video not long ago to address the criticism/feedback, explaining step-by-step in detail what everything they do costs to produce, and in turn why their stuff costs so much.

Some people call BS, of course, but it's out there if you poke around I think, for anyone who may be interested in hearing his reasoning (or "excuses" if you prefer).

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by frank_one

I'm not sure S7 can actually lower the price without losing money or lowering the quality of their products. From what I understand they have high production costs due to the fact that they aren't producing big numbers of units per item. They don't have the same numbers of Neca, they are a smaller niche company. Basically everything they due is upon preorder.

As I said above, I'm sure the Super 7 economies of scale are nothing compared to Mattel or Hasbro for example. But still - these are priced as purely boutique items. If they can't compete with an appropriate price point then they've bitten off more than they can chew as an organization.

Simple fact. They are running on pre-order credit and inflating prices for a cash grab from the addicted middle-aged buyer. It's ridiculous.

They need to supply their pre-ordered products and find a way to stop raping the community financially. And foremost, the community needs to start rejecting this nonsense as a whole.

[Spidergreg]

I miss playmates.
Playmates is the best cheapo vehicle maker
i don't even mind they heavily use stickers for decor
because of its price point but it's unacceptable for a $500 toy.

Here's an idea,
why don't playmates make cheap vehicles for 6 or 7 inch scale toys?
I'm sure they would fly off the shelves, don't even have to say it's for Neca or S7, we know

[ToSte]

Speaking of stickers, WTF is with that sticker of a skateboard? That's almost as stupid as the pizza hubcaps.

[Spidergreg]

Originally Posted by ToSte

Speaking of stickers, WTF is with that sticker of a skateboard? That's almost as stupid as the pizza hubcaps.

Not as stupid as the scratches on the face of the van.

[Zachatello00]

Originally Posted by Spidergreg

Here's an idea,
why don't playmates make cheap vehicles for 6 or 7 inch scale toys?
I'm sure they would fly off the shelves, don't even have to say it's for Neca or S7, we know

They could say it’s for their Cobra Kai/classic collection turtles. It’d be a perfect fit!

[D Piddy 1982]

Originally Posted by IMJ

the addicted middle-aged buyer.

Dammit I've been rumbled!

It is an addiction S7 are helping me to overcome with this Turtle Van...