04-18-2021, 06:19 PM | #61 |
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I wonder who will get F'd up the A this season.
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04-18-2021, 06:25 PM | #62 | |
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Sumac already made that joke a page back.
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Love ya buddy.
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05-13-2021, 03:18 AM | #63 |
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I just installed SF5 for kicks. Yeah. It's the same damn game I played in 1992 with a shiny new coat of paint (but I beat 5 out of 5 of the guys I just played online!). And Castlevania in 3D isn't wholly different from my argument about 3D fighters vs. 2D fighters. Konami was going the right direction with the N64 games, and probably the same with Lament of Innocence and Curse of Darkness. I can't comment on the "reboot" games because I've never played. But I think with enough finesse, it's completely possible to do a "Castletroid" game like Symphony in a fully 3D engine.
Just saw the first episode of the new season of Castlevania. Well I enjoy the dialogue. And it's nice to see actual Castlevania monsters for once... the undead skeletons and mini Igors.
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05-13-2021, 06:32 AM | #64 | ||
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Lament and COD were just bad beat'em ups, who tried to be "Castleroids" and failed miserably. The only things that were good about Lament were cheesy voice acting, boss battles and a soundtrack. |
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05-13-2021, 06:50 AM | #65 |
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All I can say is that while Lament of Innocence held my interest to the end... Curse of Darkness I got maybe 2 or so hours into it then completely lost interest.
But kind of like SF and MK... that they didn't quite perfect the foray from 2D into 3D (though again Mr. Sumac, I'd direct you to give MK vs. DCU an honest shake and come back to the debate -- though I still stand by my basic stance on Akuma in T7 as proof positive that 3D can be worked in painlessly and without changing anything drastic.)
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05-13-2021, 11:33 AM | #66 | |
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I know that the game kinda treats itself like a Castleroid, but I treated it like a beat'em up and flew through it without bothering with optional paths, though I've killed all secret bosses. |
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05-14-2021, 04:20 AM | #67 | |
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I just think the best Castlevania way to go would be something between your average Resident Evil and Symphony of the Night. Going through Castlevania itself, level by level, open roam with a lot of long winding staircases and secrets. And maybe let you explore around the castle, too. It's really shocking there isn't like a brand new cutting edge Castlevania game every 2 or 3 years. What happened? Did they try to go "too big" with the reboot games with Patrick Stewart and all, then failed? Castlevania seemed like an evergreen property and Konami just seems to have abandoned it. Yeah, maybe they do a cheap portable game every random moon... but this was a juggernaut. A few more into the new season now. It's not quite as annoying as the last season. I'm mostly on board with it. The people involved are clearly more interested in characterizations than pushing a broader saga forward (though that's not at all what they told us at the beginning), but maybe that's fine for something like this. And it looks like Death is finally going to show up... though maybe in nerfed form. Not an elemental force, but just some random evil guy? Eh.
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05-14-2021, 04:54 AM | #68 |
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I own both "Lords of Shadow" games, but haven't played them yet, only read about them.
Apparently the first was a big hit, but they lost the audience with the decision to have much of the sequel take place in a more contemporary, modern-day setting. It seems that most people thought that the gameplay was improved over the first, but the setting and storyline ruined it for them. And so while the first game sold well and was nearly unanimously-praised, the sequel got mixed reviews and sold less. And this all happened right around the time that Konami was more or less just giving up on making games, period, so since it under-performed they just decided that it wasn't worth making any more. So, it seems like a bit of a mix of "players weren't wholly satisfied with the sequel's direction" along with "Anything that doesn't sell 10 million copies isn't worth the effort for modern-day Konami". Thus, the stalling-out of the franchise entirely. Having not played either game yet, I can't speak from experience. But I'm personally less enthusiastic about playing a Castlevania game in a "modern" or "contemporary" setting. So I kind of get the complaints. It just feels like something that needs to be more Gothic and "dated", like just set A Long Time Ago rather than Right Now or in the future. I'unno.
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05-14-2021, 08:41 PM | #69 | |
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Just a year later Castlevania Resurrection for Dreamcast was canceled, supposedly, due to the conflict between Konami Japan and Konami USA. Lament of Innocence and Curse of Darkness were made on a shoestring budget and failed to garner interest. Symphony of the Night 2 was canceled, most likely, because, Konami didn't see how Igarashi (producer of the series) could make a good 3D game, he made LOI and COD after all and his 2D games were no longer profitable. Though Konami put out teaser for it and a Radio spectacle which was supposed to bridge SOTN1 and SOTN2, they've canceled the game and started seek for someone else to make it, which led to... ...LOS1 which was the best selling in the series and LOS2 which was messed up by EGO of the producer, who thought he knows better than designers and writers how the game should look and what story should be, so, as Leo said, it ended up as a failure. And so we arrived today, where there is no 3D or any other Castlevanias for that matter. |
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05-14-2021, 08:45 PM | #70 | |
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That first Lords of Shadow game was one of the best games I've ever played. |
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05-14-2021, 08:56 PM | #71 | |||||
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And I don't think Konami always coming out with new 2D Castletroid stuff on the handhelds has anything to do with the 3D ones "failing" on the main consoles. They always would have done more 2D Castletroid stuff because they're affordable to make and easy to crank out. Quote:
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05-14-2021, 09:30 PM | #72 | ||
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It would be kind of silly of them to insist that Xbox 360 and PS3 gamers, most of whom never even owned an NES or GBA and therefore never played any of the Castlevania games before, have had played the other games in the series. Forcing the storyline of LoS to fit in with a dozen games most of their audience hadn't ever played would have been needlessly limiting. I'm a stickler for "canon" more often than not. But the fact that LoS ended up being the most financially successful game in the entire franchise kind of proves that they made the right decision. It was designed to be a jumping-on point for people unfamiliar with the franchise, and a lot of people were thrilled that none of the earlier games "counted" because they didn't feel like they were missing anything by jumping straight into that one. I mean, I haven't played every single game in the series by far, but by that point where they were having some of the handheld games be set in the future and whatnot, one could seriously argue that the original canon had already become rather unwieldy and convoluted.
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05-14-2021, 10:19 PM | #73 | |
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05-14-2021, 10:31 PM | #74 |
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By that same logic, if you're not going to even really address the existing canon in any significant way, why NOT just reboot? Especially since LoS is essentially an "origin story" for the entire franchise.
It was probably just simpler to reboot and start everything over from scratch, rather than worry that some fanatics would be all like, "Well, ACTUALLY (adjusts glasses), this Dracula 'origin' story contradicts much of the storyline in the acclaimed GBA Castlevania game 'Orchestra of Dracula's Ballsack: Rondo of Whale Semen', which explains where the saga REALLY started! CLEARLY these people know nothing at all about Castlevania and this game is therefore garbage!" There's always a FEW of Those People and I assume Konami didn't want to be bothered with all of that.
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05-14-2021, 11:42 PM | #75 | |
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05-15-2021, 12:15 AM | #76 |
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Yeah, but I think the original timeline already had established a Dracula origin of some sort, somewhere along the way (by all means, someone correct me if I'm wrong). Since they were hellbent on LoS being an origin story and designed it to entice new people to the franchise with no strings attached, their hands were kinda tied.
I mean, the Game Boy, N64 and PS2 games had already splintered the canon into a Castlevania "Multiverse", anyway. LoS being a hard reboot wasn't some kind of mortal sin, I don't think. And again, for whatever else it was the most commercially-successful game, so it's hard to really argue that it was a bad decision. They just went with the thing that was easiest. It worked, so... I'unno.
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05-15-2021, 06:22 AM | #77 | |||||||
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Konami plan was that CV64 will be super popular and the template for all other Castlevania games going forward, and Symphony of the Night was planned to be a "small spin off". But CV64 ended up being not particularly popular, while Symphony ended up being a megahit. Konami attempted to "fix" CV64 and, later, release another 3D game for Dreamcast, but neither worked. Konami wanted to completely shut down the series, but Igarashi insisted that he wants to keep the series alive. Konami agreed, but on a condition: he becomes main producer of the series and release Castlevania game every year on whatever budget Konami gives him, which led to "Symphony of the Clones" and some mediocre 3D games. Until their popularity didn't fall off, due to said 3D games and Igarashi attempts to make Castlevania more popular in Japan. Funny thing, that first post-Symphony clone, Circle of the Moon, was made not by Igarashi, but by guys behind CV64. Igarashi "borrowed" most of the Circle ideas and made his own Harmony of Dissonance. Quote:
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I partially agree with them, but at the same time, I loved how most games were part of the bigger narrative. In many ways it had happened thanks to Igarashi, who introduced a lot of plot points without having any intention to resolve them in the future. Also, LOS1 was planned to be remake of original Castlevania and original pitch-trailer had Simon Belmont fighting some monster. If I remember right, it was Hideo Kojima of Metal Gear fame, who basically pushed for LOS to be chosen as the next Castlevania game and to be a reboot. Just to add some more context: after Igarashi was stripped of his influence over Castlevania, Konami held a contest between their US, Japan and European divisions to see, which one will be able to offer the best idea for big budget Castlevania game. Eventually, with Kojima help, EU pitch was chosen. P.S. As you can guess, I am not a big fan of Igarashi and his decisions. Quote:
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CV64 / LOD was kind of reboot in itself, though, it was mostly because of its troubled development and Circle was initially conceived as spin-off set in Carmilla's castle and not mentioning Belmonts in any capacity. Also, it might have to do with Igarashi not being involved in development of any of those titles. Just saying. Last edited by Sumac; 05-15-2021 at 07:02 AM. |
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05-15-2021, 09:39 PM | #78 |
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Lament of Innocence only replaced Legends because they wanted to do "the very first Belmont" again, only hundreds of years before the 1400s this time. And honestly, Lament is basically a reboot. While it still sort of works with the rest of the games, it makes Dracula not into Dracula anymore, and it's a big "everything you ever thought you know about Castlevania's beginnings is WRONG!"
Finished the show. I liked how they portrayed Death, I liked the "psyche!!!" with you know who (which I figured was coming because you know who is a frequent boss in Curse of Darkness, which is years after this). They aligned everything pretty well back to the games' timeline by the end with the possible exception of Isaac... he literally is refusing to do at the end of this season the thing that was the whole point of Curse of Darkness. The Dracula stuff was bizarre... and seemed way more like weird fetish stuff from the writers or Ellis. I sure don't remember anything about folks wanting to resurrect Dracula's and his wife's souls and combine into a hermaphrodite body with boobs and who knows what else.
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05-15-2021, 10:13 PM | #79 | |
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All in all, its removal from a timeline is not a big loss, even though, I like idea of Sonia Belmont. |
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05-15-2021, 11:00 PM | #80 | |
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