With OotS a failure, what's next for TMNT films?

[samxsteal]

Originally Posted by Leolead

No, I don't mean how Nolan adapts the Batman comics-- What i'm saying is the dark and gritty tone and aesthetic is what I want for a Mirage film with fight scenes styled after the 'The Raid' (which is what was originally promised to us). Just imagine a Mirage trilogy:

Movie 1 - Adaptation of TMNT #2, Stockman as the main villain
Movie 2 - adaptation of TMNT #1 Shredder and all that good stuff with the Foot, Leo cuts of Shreddie's head in the climax
Movie 3 - "City At War" nuff' said.

IDW is cool and all, but Mirage is what they should be adapting if they're looking into the comics. If not a movie, i'd kill for a Netflix series in vain of 'Daredevil'

See I'd prefer mirage as a series it just lends itself to that more. But idk how I feel about the "dark gritty" people say they want it but when it's done people end up hating it. But IDW is awesome and there stories are so good. But city at war would rock no matter what.

[Leolead]

Originally Posted by samxsteal

See I'd prefer mirage as a series it just lends itself to that more. But idk how I feel about the "dark gritty" people say they want it but when it's done people end up hating it. But IDW is awesome and there stories are so good. But city at war would rock no matter what.

Now that I think about it, i'd rather a Mirage Netflix series. It'd work better than a movie. Wouldn't it be awesome if we got a Mirage Netflix series and an IDW movie series at the SAME time! haha.

Spoiler:

[Bry]

To answer the question... I'm torn between my hope and my "realistic" expectation. I would love to see a proper Mirage-style reboot, or even an IDW-style do-over. I'm not entirely confident yet that this iteration is done, unfortunately. I mean... domestically it's pretty much a guaranteed flop. It may get $100m, but that's a huge disappointment versus its budget and marketing costs. But Bay is definitely playing hard to the market in China, with Transformers as well as this, and may be counting on that money carrying this franchise forward. I would hope that its failure elsewhere would put the brakes on, but I'm not sure it'll be that easy.

...but, hell with it, I'm gonna vote IDW-flavour reboot out of sheer optimism. I'm not optimistic enough for a Mirage-style reboot, mind you.

Originally Posted by samxsteal

But batman begins is not a faithful adaptation. Hell batfleck is more comic book accurate then bale.

I wouldn't entirely agree... Batman Begins borrowed a lot of its story from "Batman: Year One". I think it did the best job fleshing out Bruce Wayne as a character, though his Batman tended to feel like "Batman-in-progress".

I actually liked Affleck as Batman more than I expected to, but Batman v Superman didn't make the character, or Gotham, or his "world" work for me anywhere near as well as Begins did.

Originally Posted by Leolead

No, I don't mean how Nolan adapts the Batman comics-- What i'm saying is the dark and gritty tone and aesthetic is what I want for a Mirage film with fight scenes styled after the 'The Raid' (which is what was originally promised to us). Just imagine a Mirage trilogy:

Movie 1 - Adaptation of TMNT #2, Stockman as the main villain
Movie 2 - adaptation of TMNT #1 Shredder and all that good stuff with the Foot, Leo cuts of Shreddie's head in the climax
Movie 3 - "City At War" nuff' said.

IDW is cool and all, but Mirage is what they should be adapting if they're looking into the comics. If not a movie, i'd kill for a Netflix series in vain of 'Daredevil'

Yup. Yup. Yup yup yup.

I've got a just-for-fun pitch treatment kicking around my hard drive somewhere that's really similar to this... Except with 1 and 2 swapped. Stockman as a minor character in #1 (playing his part in introducing April), with Stockman's revenge and the TCRI reveal being at the heart of #2. And City at War being the big trilogy-ending finale.

I love the IDW book, and I'd be happy if the bigwigs looked to that when deciding future direction of the movies... but Mirage is still the best story. Looking there, and understanding its origins, should be step one for anyone adapting the property. Platinum Dunes didn't bother, and we see where it got them.

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

The trouble is, it took a Christopher Nolan to do that for Batman and I'm not sure there's a Christopher Nolan out there for TMNT, or even if there were that Paramount/Viacom would trust them with the keys to TMNT.

Originally Posted by Casey

Oof. I think Burton's first crack at it in 89 is what did it. Even Returns is pretty decent and holds up well. Then, yes we had to deal with Schumacher... and Bane.

I HOPE there is a Nolan out there somewhere just waiting and able. I have faith.

Your'e both wrong!!!! Haha! But on a serious note Frank Miller is the first one to give us a dark, serious, and gritty batman who really broke that Adam West mold. Burton was defiantly the first one to bring a mature Batman to the big screen.

Originally Posted by Foombamaroom

Honestly, I don't want a Mirage movie. I want a Mirage TV show. 10-13 episodes of dark and grittiness, and actual storytelling. It gives more room for character development and lets the story breathe.


But if a movie's to come out, IDW's the way to go. The storytelling is perfectly balanced with the humor and the characters, and honestly, that's the definitive version of TMNT for me.

I would agree with you, but the art in IDW recently has been horrid (taste wise) and too cartoonish lately and could do with out. But as other have said I would Love to see a faithful adaptation Mirage or IDW(Dan Duncan era)

[TurtleTitan97]

Originally Posted by Redeemer

But on a serious note Frank Miller is the first one to give us a dark, serious, and gritty batman who really broke that Adam West mold. Burton was defiantly the first one to bring a mature Batman to the big screen.

Batman was already returning to his darker roots in the comics before Miller even came aboard.

[TheJ-manTurtleMan]

I wonder how long it will be till we hear any news about a sequel or not. Will they even say anything if they don't plan on making a sequel?

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by TheJ-manTurtleMan

I wonder how long it will be till we hear any news about a sequel or not. Will they even say anything if they don't plan on making a sequel?

Oh, I would bet they may actually "announce" a sequel. That's generally how these things work. Expect articles coming soon about, "Sequel greenlit!" or something somesuch, followed by... the whole thing quietly going away.

Announcing a sequel or a trilogy while the existing movie is still in theaters is a tried and true business practice in Hollywood. Builds audience confidence. You know, "Whoa, the studio has that much confidence that the next one is already happening? Wow, I better go see this one STAT!"

[TrickOrTreater]

Originally Posted by Bry

I wouldn't entirely agree... Batman Begins borrowed a lot of its story from "Batman: Year One". I think it did the best job fleshing out Bruce Wayne as a character, though his Batman tended to feel like "Batman-in-progress".

Just to expand, Year One as well as Batman: The Man Who Falls, and some hints of DKR, of course.

Spoiler:

As well the animated series

Spoiler:

Batman Begins was very faithful to several comics, borrowing and adapting huge, important pieces to create one story.

Did it change a few things? Of course. But it was still incredibly faithful in several ways that more than made up for it.

Same with TDK. Borrowing from Long Halloween, Dark Victory, Man Who Laughs, even a little of of Killing Joke.

We'd be lucky as hell to get a Ninja Turtles movie AS faithful to the comics/better cartoons as Begins and TDK was to Batman.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by TrickOrTreater

Batman Begins was very faithful to several comics, borrowing and adapting huge, important pieces to create one story.

Did it change a few things? Of course. But it was still incredibly faithful in several ways that more than made up for it.

Same with TDK. Borrowing from Long Halloween, Dark Victory, Man Who Laughs, even a little of of Killing Joke.

We'd be lucky as hell to get a Ninja Turtles movie AS faithful to the comics/better cartoons as Begins and TDK was to Batman.

Very true.

[Commenter 42]

Where do people get "sequel" out of a failure of this magnitude?

I'm drunk on Boubon, but Y'all are drunk on wishful thinking.

We get more TF movies because they make big piles of cash.

This isn't that. This is the slow demise of Paramount, desperately in need of a cash infusion, flailing about in desperation.

TMNT3? After this bomb?

Nope.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

This isn't that. This is the slow demise of Paramount, desperately in need of a cash infusion, flailing about in desperation.

Star Trek Beyond will save them. That's been tracking really well.

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by TurtleTitan97

Batman was already returning to his darker roots in the comics before Miller even came aboard.

There was never a truly dark or gritty Batman until Miller's work. I am assuming you are talking about Neal Adams work, I do agree Batman became a serious character again before Miller came on board, but nothing Like how Miller wrote him or the universe he created. As I said Miller created the first Dark, Gritty Batman.

Just compare how colorful the Batman Comics were before Frank Miller and compare them to the color or lack there of in his Dark Knight Returns.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Star Trek Beyond will save them. That's been tracking really well.

https://media.giphy.com/media/30swyC5E1ktVe/giphy.gif

To be fair, film itself, is stagnating, again. The last time we underwent this sort of change was the late 90's, the rebirth of indie cinema; before that it was Brukheimer with Top Gun and the rise of true block buster cinema; on and on, the milestones are pretty clear.

The CBM fatigue isn't proven by PDMT, it started with Avengers AOU, and has been building in ferocity since. SW:TFA barely escaped, owing largely it's success to the decade of failures that preceded it, and a **** ton of good will, built on hope, and some willful blindness.

Dead pool, with Reynolds is precisely the same; it wasn't a good movie, it wasn't funny, really, but it was accurate, which made it special. It was the little engine that could, it's the abused spouse, who finally stands up to the abuser.

so yeah, it is CBM fatigue, but it's a unique kind of disdain, built on trust, or the lack there of.

TMNT2 failed solely on its predecessor, and possibly even because B&R were relatively on safe looking, so that, no only was the first movie horrible, but The villains in the new one don't invoke any curiosity. The audience isn't compelled to see it for either it's merits or its faults.

Across the board, everything in theatres right now, are not must see films, it's a slew of sequels, valued as rentals or Netflix at most.

Hollywood, it seems, has forgotten, the key to drawing a crowd. The assumption, that we'll see it anyway, because we're fans, it's proving false; nobody told them just how fickle fans can be.

Nothing right now, tells Hollywood, that dark and brooding is a way to go. BVS failed, Fantastic 4 failed; both super serious versions of their source material, but with dour didactic tones that reached a crescendo of idiotic solemnity so stomach turning, even Kevin Smith slammed his own gravy train. That's something.

So no, nobody is looking for Nolans dogmatic approache; Nolan isn't "Fun".

Could an outstanding TMNT film be made? Goddamn it yes; should it be dark n gritty and serious?

Was Mirage ever all work and no play? Is that really the brand?

Not for years.

Of course, I want it, you want it, but we are not the audience...

[Casey]

Originally Posted by Redeemer

Your'e both wrong!!!! Haha! But on a serious note Frank Miller is the first one to give us a dark, serious, and gritty batman who really broke that Adam West mold. Burton was defiantly the first one to bring a mature Batman to the big screen.

Yeah. I agree with you there, but I was referring to film specifically. I had a feeling someone was gonna make the Miller comment and rightfully so.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Redeemer

There was never a truly dark or gritty Batman until Miller's work..

Nor should there have ever been

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Redeemer

There was never a truly dark or gritty Batman until Miller's work. I am assuming you are talking about Neal Adams work, I do agree Batman became a serious character again before Miller came on board, but nothing Like how Miller wrote him or the universe he created. As I said Miller created the first Dark, Gritty Batman.

Just compare how colorful the Batman Comics were before Frank Miller and compare them to the color or lack there of in his Dark Knight Returns.

Batman started out as a character who shot people to death and thought chemical burning was a fitting way for criminals to die.


Maybe not that dark overall but pretty messed up regardless.

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by Casey

Yeah. I agree with you there, but I was referring to film specifically. I had a feeling someone was gonna make the Miller comment and rightfully so.

Thats what I figured

Originally Posted by neatoman

Batman started out as a character who shot people to death and thought chemical burning was a fitting way for criminals to die.
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...20140517180446

Maybe not that dark overall but pretty messed up regardless.

I no Earth 1 Batman used guns and I believe Alfred did as well , but I never heard of him killing anyone........
But as a said before that comic is very colorful compared to Miller's work.


But anyways back to the future of TMNT I really doubt if we will ever get a TMNT movie that is Mirage based or based on IDW.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Redeemer

Thats what I figured


I no Earth 1 Batman used guns and I believe Alfred did as well , but I never heard of him killing anyone........
But as a said before that comic is very colorful compared to Miller's work.


But anyways back to the future of TMNT I really doubt if we will ever get a TMNT movie that is Mirage based or based on IDW.

Correction, Golden Age Batman was from Earth-2, it was the Silver Age Batman who was from Earth-1. Sounds backwards, I know.

[TMNTChris1980]

Originally Posted by Redeemer

But anyways back to the future of TMNT I really doubt if we will ever get a TMNT movie that is Mirage based or based on IDW.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. The nostalgia for the OT is just about dead. This has been proven by the OT characters being in the Nick episode, and the ratings being abysmal. I think 4 to 5 years ago, people wanted to see an OT TMNT movie, and they didn't get it. If you saw the 2014 TMNT movie looking to see your favorite characters from the 80's/90's you were severely let down. The producers of OotS tried to make good, by making a movie geared towards the OT. It was too late, and they already lost people with their first attempt.

I think the only choice next for a TMNT movie is a Mirage based movie. I think with time Mirage becomes more well known. The Ultimate Collections sell fairly well (I think). Kids growing up on the Nick TMNT are getting familiar with a lot of Mirage storylines. In ten to fifteen years from now, it won't be strange for them to see a movie with Utroms, Fugitoid, Zog, Triceratons, Renet, etc. So yes, I think the next TMNT movie (unless they try to wrap up this dumpster fire of a trilogy with a third one) will be a Mirage TMNT movie.

[Editor's Note Comics]

I imagine the Blu-Ray/Digital sales will be what determines if this gets a sequel or not.