Over time, do you like the 1987 Cartoon more or less?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I think its fair to assume that most us have known the Original Cartoon for a long time, possibly spanning decades for some. With time, has your opinion on the show changed?

For me personally, I've only grown more fond of it with time, even though tmnt is nowhere near the top of the list of my favourite entertainment franchises. What has really sold the Original Cartoon for me and keeps it in my thoughts are the Voice Performances and the Background music, those two things alone are so memorable that I'd be crazy enough to convert the cartoon episode files into mp3 files and listen to them.

I used to be more nitpicky about things like animation and writing in the past, but present me cares more about colourful characters, which are plentiful in the 1987 toon.

[neatoman]

I have a more negative perception of it than I used to. I used to think it was just typical for the time when compared to Transformers, He-Man or GI Joe as well as several other cartoons from the 80's. That's not to say I felt it was good, just a mediocre product of it's time. Of course, then I explored several other cartoons and realised that even for the time the Fred Wolf cartoon was a piece of crap, it's just that it was made in the sludge pipeline of animation history.

There is a minimum level quality for animation and writing that existed long before the 80's and it shouldn't have been more difficult to meet it in the 80's than it was in the 30's. "It had to sell toys", "They needed to reach 65 episodes as quickly as possible" or "This isn't exactly a Disney movie" aren't really excuses for the poor quality. If the intention was to make a quality show (which, no, the show was clearly never intended to be much more than advertisement and a syndication deal scheme) then they would have put in the effort and time to make it happen.

Then there is the adaption issue. Defenders of this terrible show will often blindly shriek that this show had to be different from the comics because it had to be for kids or that there weren't enough issues to adapt. While the latter is somewhat true (new stories would have to make up the bulk of the episodes but not all of them), the fact that many of these comic book stories still ended up forming the basis for children's entertainment later on proves it wasn't necessary. Even if it was true, it doesn't really justify the other changes, did the show really become better by recasting April as a reporter or turning Leatherhead into a Cajun bully? I don't think so. If anything the show just makes the Turtles and the characters around them less complex for no reason.

Then there is the comedy which is one of the most common defenses for this show, largely because "comedy is subjective". However, I fail to see anything funny about this show, it's basically all just pizza jokes and dry snark, it's about the most toothless comedy I can imagine. It just makes me wonder if the people who use that argument have any taste in comedy whatsoever or if they just use it because they realise there's nothing else they can defend the show with unless they're willing to use fallacies and strawmen.

[MikeandRaph87]

It is still my favorite version of the Ninja Turtles and what defines the franchise in my eyes.

It is not perfect as nothing is. I cringe at a few of the lazy plot resolutions such as Ninja Sword to Nowhere with the alien antique dealer showing up out of the blue and made no sense. There was also the ridiculous secret move of the Foot Clan that only the master of the clan would know, the Cur-lee Manuver. The Three Stooges reference was out of place and is a let down. Why not make it a move that plays a hypnosis on the opponent's mind? A third one is the plot resolution to Michelangelo's Birthday which mothballs deflate the three Turtles? Splinter shrugs it off as all one has to do is believe. It gives credibility to '87 Donatello in the misrepresentation of the series in Turtles Forever. The overall plot of Raphael Knocks'em Dead was absolutely absurd and stupid.

However, I have come to realize that my taste in humor is actually shaped by the series itself along maybe with Full House. I love pun related humor and the sarcasm of Raphael. I also enjoy things that are quotable. That seems to be the basis of the humor in Ninja Turtles (1987).

Additionally while I detest the likes of Zach, Mr. Ogg, Carter, and Dregg as well as no interest at all in mobsters not named Big Louie or any mad scientist at all, I find the characters much more appealing and memorable even if only appearing once. It also gave us the most iconic take on various characters such as Leatherhead, Rat King who appeared in many different versions in many different looks. It has many characters that can be mined further and expanded upon. I don't feel like other versions gave us that nearly as much.

I hear the voices of the 1987 cast no matter what and their voices define the characters. It makes me hear two Raphael in the 2012 cartoon since Rob Paulsen has a particular brand that he injects into the characters that he voices. They prove to the most versatile cast as they took on many roles in addition to the main character he or she played. I understand it was so Fred Wolf productions could get more bang for their buck and 4Kids did it as non-union, but I like figuring out which VA did a random background character. I also never got invested enough to learn who all the voice actors behind the characters were. I may really enjoy the 2003 cartoon but I can't list off the names of the voice acting cast beyond Veronica Taylor voiced Ash Kechum.Ketchum.

Most of the animation errors I can forgive as rushed production especially in seasons 3 and 4. However, I would like to know what caused the error of the wrong voice actors getting the cue to speak another's line. Was it a script mistake or what? The one that I cannot forgive is the infamous plot related one from New York's Shinnest. The Turtles are using the Turtle Van and do the suicide dive gamble while Splinter, April and Rex-1 take the Turtle Van and Rex-1 rips off the back doors. The vehicle took a lot of damage in that episode! Why did the trio not take April's news van?

I think that I covered everything.

[CyberCubed]

Same as its always been. What I do wish is that the censors in the 80's and 90's weren't so strict with it, you can tell because some episodes have no fight scenes at all and of course the remove of Michelangelo's nunchucks which were ridiculous.

But this is all because back then "cartoons are for kids" was a strict mentality and all the damn soccer moms complained the show was "too violent" for kids (lol, it hardly is), and that's kinda sad.

[IndigoErth]

I'd say my adult feeling about it has just remained at a comfortable room temperature, if that makes sense. Still like it for what it is, but see it as a product of its time and while it may have been the big thing back then, it's not going to meet that by today's standard and doesn't have to.

[IMJ]

Loved it as a kid for the first few seasons, but lost interest shortly after it became a Saturday morning cartoon. Now? It's just part of personal-culture which means that even if I have passive disinterest, it's a thing I've been with for so long that I'll always "like" it.

So basically I don't even really "watch" it with any engagement anymore, but it does make for great background noise while doing something else. From time to time I'll put a disc in and just let it play while I'm busy with something - usually when I'm doing photography of some kind.

[Cowabung-Gal]

I’d say that I like it even more as the years go by, considering that the overall quality of cartoons has gone downhill since the late 2010’s.

Sad, I know

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

I’d say that I like it even more as the years go by, considering that the overall quality of cartoons has gone downhill since the late 2010’s.

Sad, I know

Thundercats 2011 was a rare gem. I'd be ecstatic if that show got a movie or a revival. It was amazing...

[Cowabung-Gal]

Originally Posted by IMJ

Thundercats 2011 was a rare gem. I'd be ecstatic if that show got a movie or a revival. It was amazing...

Yeah, it was a cool show. And Will Friedle did an awesome job voicing Lion-O.

But, had it not been cancelled, Lion-O and a grown-up Wilykit would’ve gotten together and Pumyra would’ve turned into a spider-like monster.

No, I’m not kidding.

[NeonTurtledude]

I love it for what it is, but it's definitely not perfect and it does show its age (especially in some of the animation and audio errors) and also in the characters,

but I still find it very entertaining and the voice acting is all great

I vaguely remember seeing adverts and clips of 2011 Thundercats, it reminded me a lot of Avatar.

[Wesley]

I like it less than I did over time. Some episodes are more enjoyable to me as an adult, though, as a lot of the humour such as Raphael’s sarcastic remarks and the banter between Shredder and Krang went over my head as a kid.

I prefer the 2003 cartoon. I can watch that series no matter what mood I’m in whereas with 1987 I have to be in the right mood to enjoy it.

I just have the first two seasons on dvd and that’s enough for me.

[Leo656]

My actual opinion shifts with the day and the hour.

I'm generally pretty forgiving of it, since it is "of its time" and also the entire reason I ever paid any attention to TMNT to begin with. BUT, pretty much everything neatoman has ever said about it IS objectively true; I just don't feel quite AS strongly about all of it as he does. But there ARE a ton of easily-caught errors, the writing IS piss-poor most of the time, and I've never been of a mind that "Well it's for KIDS, maaaaaaan" is a good enough reason to handwave all of that. Many cartoons since then - including TMNT 2K3 - have illustrated quite clearly that you can do a kids' cartoon and NOT have it be brick-stupid or full of errors and plot holes Just Because. All it takes is a bare minimum of care, something the original show's producers simply could not be bothered with.

They knew their audience was too young and ignorant to care, and so they pretty much put in bare-minimum effort, and it shows. A LOT. I'm pretty much of the mind that the voice acting is what holds it all together, which is supported by the fact that to most people, a lot of the later seasons' episodes with several of the iconic actors replaced are nowhere near as memorable or entertaining as the earlier ones. The actors gave the characters a certain quaint charm that made you forgive a lot. The same bad jokes coming through other voices just didn't land.

I don't think I have it n me to flat-out hate it as much as neatoman does, even though I agree with most of his points. I do still have a sliver of nostalgia for it, but I've never managed to do a full-series binge and I doubt I ever will. When the Seasons were coming out on DVD, we would just binge-watch the latest release by itself and even just that was was more of the show than I could handle anymore, and afterwards I wouldn't be able to watch any of it for months, at least. By this point it's been at least five years since I've watched a full episode. I'm just not at all the same person I was when I was 7 and thought the show was a riot. Nowadays, I mostly just groan - HARD - throughout most of every single bit of it that I see. It's... not "good" unless you're 7, or remain adamant that everything you liked at that age is exactly as good as it was then. And I harbor no such delusions. It's NOT a "good" show, it's a Bad Show With Charm and the charm helps elevate it in peoples' eyes.

It's one of the best cartoon shows of the 80s, sure, but as mentioned that whole era was about Quantity Over Quality. There were more memorable cartoons in that decade than any era before or since, but very few of them were actually "good". Being among the best of a weak crop isn't the most noteworthy accomplishment.

I will say, though, that a lot of my resentment of the show isn't even about the show itself, but rather the cultural insistence that this insipid version is "The REAL TMNT" in so many peoples' eyes, and also that it means we'll never get a truly "good" interpretation of the franchise's characters and storylines. Like, TMNT CAN be "better" than this, if it's "allowed" to be. But it's NOT allowed to be, because a bunch of people think that jokes about "Pineapple and pepperoni pizza with strawberry ice cream and chocolate sprinkles, duuuuuuuuudes!" are somehow actually funny or clever, and that that's the bar any TMNT iteration needs to clear.

Like, it's not the show's fault some people are that vapid and easily-amused, and that they think "Well, it's s stupid concept, so the show(s) about it should also be stupid, the dumber the better." That society's fault for having such terrible taste and standards and refusing to accept that not everything a person liked when they were 7 is actually "good" or well-made. But regardless, the show exists as it is, and people insist that THAT is the "best" version of TMNT ever, despite it being objectively one of the dumbest versions. I sincerely wish one of the TRULY "good" versions, like 2K3, could have become the "iconic" version of TMNT, because Lord knows that show deserves such acclaim WAY more than the FW cartoon does. But that isn't how things work, unfortunately. Nostalgia and confirmation bias have seen to that.

So... I don't know. I guess one could say I like it less as more time goes on. But it's less about the show itself, and more about how I simply cannot fathom how 30+ years later the franchise seemingly "peaked" in most peoples' minds with one of the stupidest and most poorly-made iterations of the property. We've had better versions since then but they're not as recognized, for dumb reasons mostly having to do with Nostalgia Worship and 'Member Berries. That does really bother me. But I recognize that's less to do with the show and more to do with people generally being dumb.

[MrPliggins]

At the time it aired, I was somewhat obsessed with the show and the property in general, fully buying into the mania. I was a tv zombie and became focused on taping every episode. Even at the time, I noticed a quality dip when it became a Saturday Morning Cartoon, as someone stated earlier.

Today, I don't think often about the show, and I never watch it (I actually watch maybe an hour of tv per month these days. I'm way behind on the MCU). My interest in watching even one episode is very low, maybe because I've seen every episode so many damn times.

So to answer the question, less. I still have nostalgia, especially for seasons 1 - 3, but if I never watched an episode again I wouldn't be sad.

[triplexxx]

Of course I liked it when I was young. Once I decide I like or dislike something, my opinion never changes.

[IndigoErth]

One thing to note I guess is that in the days of the 87 series, while kids shows were sort of a big thing to an extent, at least to sell toys, it also wasn't the same industry as it is now. At best we had tv channels airing cartoons or other shows for kids at certain times of the day and that was it, there weren't any channels fully dedicated to kids. Not even Nick in its early days and even they didn't have their own cartoons for a while. Now you've got multiple channels 100% for kids 24/7, adults liking animation more than they used to, and probably have way more budget dedicated to trying to produce something of some kind of quality that will grab kid's attention and make money more than the cartoons of the FW show's era ever did. So yeah, it's not going stand up to what cartoons are these days. But if you like quirky classic types of cartoons and can find entertainment in the errors, etc... it's still not a bad watch.

Now does it need to be the main source influencing literally everything else... no, no it doesn't. Nor does it need to be rebooted.

[Aaronardo]

"Bad Show with Charm" is a great way to describe it. I loved it as a kid and it might as well have introduced me to TMNT, but I don't have the same appreciation for it now.

I do, however, have a different kind of appreciation for it. The show can be so incredibly stupid that it transcends taking itself seriously, even though its characters do at all times. But you can tell by Season 3 when they had to produce 48 different scenarios in a similar amount of time they had to produce 13 last season, all rules were thrown out the window. Donatello pretends to be on TV talking to some mobsters to get information? Sure. A computer program ray gives Shredder Michelangelo's personality? Why not. The Cur-lee Maneuver? Not even our dumbest idea so far.

The result is mad, self-aware, rushed creativity at its purist form, and that's unique. It's a good show to throw on with some drunk buddies. The best episodes of the show, imo, are the ones where they clearly didn't give a sh*t. It rarely feels like the show is phoning it in, because all of its lazy stupid choices have a thick layer of cheese and silliness plastered on them. If the show needs to get from Point A to Point B, it almost always does so in an unexpected way. So even though I never watch it today (and despise how tight Viacom seems to hold onto it), I still look at it in awe sometimes.

In addition, I agree it has one of the greatest voice casts and background soundtracks from any TV show.

[Andrew NDB]

Over time I think I respected it more than I did after I initially outgrew it but my resentment of it increases every time I see stuff from it recycled in whatever.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

my resentment of it increases every time I see stuff from it recycled in whatever.

Yeah, I try to be as objective as I can about my criticisms of the Fred Wolf cartoon and the ideas other iterations lift from it, but it can be a bit subjectively grating.

Obviously Bebop and Rocksteady don't have to be bad characters in everything simply because they were bad character in the Fred Wolf cartoon, they can be revised into something more palatable. That said, it's still kind of annoying that some people always seem to think it's a good idea to shove them in there simply because they remember Bebop and Rocksteady being major characters in the Fred Wolf cartoon.

I get it, despite being garbage the Fred Wolf cartoon is still where most of the early fans jumped in and they might possibly still make up the majority of fans, or at least the majority of fans over the age of 25 or so. But kind of feels like if JLA never managed to move past the popularity of Super Friends and as a result the Wonder Twins would be more prominent than the Martian Manhunter, a bizarre scenario in many ways.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Aaronardo

In addition, I agree it has one of the greatest voice casts and background soundtracks from any TV show.

Definitely. Definitely.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Yeah, I try to be as objective as I can about my criticisms of the Fred Wolf cartoon and the ideas other iterations lift from it, but it can be a bit subjectively grating.

Obviously Bebop and Rocksteady don't have to be bad characters in everything simply because they were bad character in the Fred Wolf cartoon, they can be revised into something more palatable. That said, it's still kind of annoying that some people always seem to think it's a good idea to shove them in there simply because they remember Bebop and Rocksteady being major characters in the Fred Wolf cartoon.

I get it, despite being garbage the Fred Wolf cartoon is still where most of the early fans jumped in and they might possibly still make up the majority of fans, or at least the majority of fans over the age of 25 or so. But kind of feels like if JLA never managed to move past the popularity of Super Friends and as a result the Wonder Twins would be more prominent than the Martian Manhunter, a bizarre scenario in many ways.

Oh wow, imagine if fans felt there was some sort of obligation to add the Wonder Twins and those two stupid kid (the girl and the wimp with the cape) in every DC cartoon since then or else it wouldn't 'feel authentic' or whatever.