TMNT #110 Preview and Discussion

[Mutant Ninja Anole]

So I’m genuinely curious, was this gang called the “Road Hogs” and their mutation was an amazing coincidence or did they come up with the name after the fact. I’m guessing they all were together, got mutated, and I don’t know, maybe after 3-4 months you feel comfortable enough to take an ironic approach to your situation.

[martinitolove]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Old Hob getting a town of mutants didn't seem to be what he expected, nor us, for that matter. Makes me wonder if they will find a de-mutation bomb or cure to revert everyone back to their past selves eventually, at least for the mutants who were previously human.

Really hope "Mutant Town" will end soon for good and children (weasels & albino), amoureous relationships (same or opposite sex), fifth wheel on a cart (Jennika) - all will disappear. Turtles will again fight the Foot Clan, Shredder, B&R, Krang, Ch'rell, Hob, and Tom Waltz returns to writing. I LOVED the first 100 issues, but can't stand 101-onward. It's like watching Rise after loving 2003 and 2012. Hope this nightmare will end soon. And don't care about Last Ronin. Dear IDW, please make really good main series issues again! Please!

Do not want to offend anyone of the creative team, but can't remain silent any longer. Thank you for the stage.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Like with regard to my own stuff, good friends whose opinions I trust have more or less said, "This is well-written and I like it for what it is, but I'd never in a million years want any official works to go this route, it's too soap opera".

I've for sure said that. Just not as politely.

Originally Posted by Leo656

I just feel like the whole "Come check us out Next Year and maybe you'll like it better by then" bit is a little shortsighted. Most people who walk away from a comic book walk away forever once they break the habit. Seems like a risky game to play, is all.

I know that I have hardly ever, ever gone back to a series once I dropped it. And I've dropped series far better than TMNT. A lot of Image stuff, for one. Saga, Birthright, Black Science, Outcast, Deadly Class, East of West...

Now granted, those were usually due to hiatuses. It's hard to get back into something after a year or two away, unless it's somehow managed to stay in the back of your mind.

The one thing TMNT has going for it over those series is I love TMNT and it'd be easier to pick back up. But will I? Will Powder or MikeandRaph or the others equally dissatisfied with the current direction?

Like Leo says, it's a risky bet.

Originally Posted by martinitolove

Really hope "Mutant Town" will end soon for good and children (weasels & albino), amoureous relationships (same or opposite sex), fifth wheel on a cart (Jennika) - all will disappear. Turtles will again fight the Foot Clan, Shredder, B&R, Krang, Ch'rell, Hob, and Tom Waltz returns to writing. I LOVED the first 100 issues, but can't stand 101-onward. It's like watching Rise after loving 2003 and 2012. Hope this nightmare will end soon. And don't care about Last Ronin. Dear IDW, please make really good main series issues again! Please!

Do not want to offend anyone of the creative team, but can't remain silent any longer. Thank you for the stage.

I hear ya, brother.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I've for sure said that. Just not as politely.

Ah, you weren't actually that far off, really. It was pretty much that. "Well-written but I'd never pay money for it, and if the actual comics were like this that would be terrible and I wouldn't be interested even a little." Which is perfectly fair and exactly what I'd expect from just about anyone. You also enjoyed the presentation of the characters themselves, which in a story like that which is mostly character-driven, is about all anyone could hope for.

If I were to try and write a "real" TMNT story to be packaged and sold... honestly, I don't know if I even could. It's just very hard for me to get inspired to try and do things that others have done before and much better. I know what people like and want, but I don't know if I'd have the ability to deliver that for $4 per issue every month. Monthly comics are a lot harder to write than anyone thinks!

Did You Know that Mario Puzo, who wrote "The Godfather", once tried to write a comic book and quickly gave up, saying it was by far the most difficult writing task he'd ever attempted? S'truth! Juggling your own ideas with what fans want/expect is an incredibly tricky balancing act, especially with how vocal comic book fans are in general. When I was a kid, I had aspirations to work in comics. As an adult? Pssssssssh, Lord no. That's a whole lotta headache and hassle for very little reward or appreciation.

I did once have an offer to work for an independent comic waaaaaaaaaay back almost 20 years ago, though. I thought about it for a minute, but in the end they'd end up owning what I'd created and I didn't wanna bother with that. It's not like there was any money in it whatsoever, it would've just been the novelty of saying "Something I wrote/drew was in a published comic book." But there was no real upside beyond that, so I didn't bother.

Plus, y'know... I'm just r e a l l l l l y lazy.

[funatic]

Originally Posted by Mutant Ninja Anole

So I’m genuinely curious, was this gang called the “Road Hogs” and their mutation was an amazing coincidence or did they come up with the name after the fact. I’m guessing they all were together, got mutated, and I don’t know, maybe after 3-4 months you feel comfortable enough to take an ironic approach to your situation.

Lol! Well clearly they played the RPG and felt inspired:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Ah, you weren't actually that far off, really. It was pretty much that. "Well-written but I'd never pay money for it, and if the actual comics were like this that would be terrible and I wouldn't be interested even a little." Which is perfectly fair and exactly what I'd expect from just about anyone. You also enjoyed the presentation of the characters themselves, which in a story like that which is mostly character-driven, is about all anyone could hope for.

If I were to try and write a "real" TMNT story to be packaged and sold... honestly, I don't know if I even could. It's just very hard for me to get inspired to try and do things that others have done before and much better. I know what people like and want, but I don't know if I'd have the ability to deliver that for $4 per issue every month. Monthly comics are a lot harder to write than anyone thinks!

Did You Know that Mario Puzo, who wrote "The Godfather", once tried to write a comic book and quickly gave up, saying it was by far the most difficult writing task he'd ever attempted? S'truth! Juggling your own ideas with what fans want/expect is an incredibly tricky balancing act, especially with how vocal comic book fans are in general. When I was a kid, I had aspirations to work in comics. As an adult? Pssssssssh, Lord no. That's a whole lotta headache and hassle for very little reward or appreciation.

I did once have an offer to work for an independent comic waaaaaaaaaay back almost 20 years ago, though. I thought about it for a minute, but in the end they'd end up owning what I'd created and I didn't wanna bother with that. It's not like there was any money in it whatsoever, it would've just been the novelty of saying "Something I wrote/drew was in a published comic book." But there was no real upside beyond that, so I didn't bother.

Plus, y'know... I'm just r e a l l l l l y lazy.

Having only recently started thinking about what sort of TMNT story I would tell, it is difficult to come up with something unique that puts a good flair and new twist (or presentation) on things while still being respectful to the franchise and still TMNT in heart and soul.

I remember Powder drawing some great Feudal Japan TMNT concepts; that would be cool someday. IDW gave us the reincarnation angle, and Nick (though definitely not my cup of tea) had the really interesting Utrom invasion and Karai is actually Splinter's daughter angles.

And, y'know, TMNT is doing the whole ship-fest Mutant Town. So there's a new angle.

Puzo is the man. Love his stuff, and I've heard that before. I can't really wrap my mind around what he might have done in the medium of comics.

[Leo656]

Puzo gets credit for the Chris Reeve Superman movie script, although the movie they filmed only has like, 10% if that of anything he wrote. He got the script credit for legal reasons more than anything. It was a completely un-filmable script.

There was apparently a scene he wrote for the movie where Superman would have literally lifted the entire nation of China into the air to save them from some kind of disaster. So... if nothing else, Puzo thinks Big.

[staypuftweepel]

I really liked most of the IDW up to 100, but I haven’t been enjoying 101 to now. I’ve been reading all of it, but it’s getting to be a chore. I won’t drop the book because my tmnt ocd keeps me attached. I just don’t like the cute extra mutants running around, the turtles in clothes, and the overall feel that the book has changed into a slow almost romance book. It just isn’t very exciting. Characters act very differently. Alopex in this issue acted like a completely different person. Raph use to be pretty tough in the IDW comics, but here he’s lost all of his edge. Im not saying that because of him helping the road hog later, but his earlier interactions with her. When it comes to having tons of mutants I always liked the Archie comic but I think it was executed better. I think this concept would have worked better as a separate miniseries or ongoing book. Even the cover of issue 111 looks too cutesy. I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but I hope things change up soon.

[Allio]

guess I'm still enjoying it main because of the Power Rangers comic which has the opposite problem. Where as TMNT right now seems to be more along the line of a slow burn, the pacing in the Power Rangers comic is shot to death. Like the power Rangers comic needs to slow down and take it's time but it rushes through so much it burns one out.

Outside of Marvel's Ultraman or IDW's Sonic comic, i'm not really reading any other monthly comic book, mostly collecting older stuff (like fables) or getting stuff as they come out in trades or binge reading (like "Something is killing the children" or Usagi Yojimbo) or simply where I just don't enjoy stuff like western superhero comics.

[neatoman]

So this issue is basically about Raph getting a motorcycle for the first half, the second half is Leo sneaking into the Mutanimals HQ overhearing Hob isn't very popular, to eventually find out Hob doesn't like having the Turtles nearby... both of which I'm sure we all figured out like six issues ago, right? Brilliant...

It seems to me that the first half could have been reduced to about 12-25% of the total page count, we really don't need half the issue just be an explaination for how he gets a bike, and if Tusk to return she could be fleshed out in a future issue. And the actual part about Leo sneaking around before he gets to spy on Hob could probably be reduced to about one page, then maybe the part with the disgruntled enforcers could be about one page as it is and the stuff about Hob could be reduced to about two pages.

By my count what we get here could have been done in about eight pages, twelve at most. Granted the idea of the grunts being dissatisfied and Hob being a bit focused on the wrong thing aren't bad set-up but it could be done in fewer pages. An issue like this, which is almost nothing but set-up, might want to set up even more things?

[CyberCubed]

Pigeon Pete seemed a bit more intelligent in this issue, but he didn't get much dialogue so it's hard to say. Herman and Ray seem to still be with Hob too.

[wyze2099]

I liked the issue. The motorcycle race with Tusk was fun, though this makes me wonder if gasoline is still being shipped into Mutant Town in enough quantities to make the continued running of vehicles worthwhile. I guess so.

It was nice seeing Raph and Alopex on a date. I like her playful banter mode whenever she's interacting with Raph.

And a cute detail I appreciated: the traffic-light style red, yellow, and green ellipses in Alopex's speech balloon as she signaled the start of the race. Nice graphic detail fitting for the drag race.

Leo's stealth mission in the Mutanimal HQ was intriguing, although I did find it odd that he didn't notice the Weasels. Guess they learned a lot from the classes. And Leo's disguises were fun, especially the tourist shirt and sunglasses. I always like seeing the stealth and disguise aspects of ninjutsu come into play.

I was hoping to learn the name of the octopus mutant, but it wasn't given unless I missed it. I did like that the fight with Leo was so one-sided in Leo's favor, though props to the octopus guy for actually being healthy enough to make it back to HQ, let alone give a debriefing after that beating.

The issue had several fights, a lot of conflict, a ninja stealth section, and some cute moments. So yeah, I liked the issue, and I'm curious to see where the storyline goes from here.

[TigerClaw]

I read the issue last night. I thought it was pretty good. Good to see a lot more of Raph and Alopex. The whole thing with Leo sneaking into the Mutanimals base was pretty cool.

And it seems like Old Hob is having some second thoughts on things. Don't know what but it could because of what he's done.

[Diorm]

I'm following a group of TMNT collector on Facebook. And there is that post right now about the arc from 101-110 and they all seems to find it boring and almost to the point of giving up.
Then someone talked about the "Fan comics" that are really good. Some other guy said he heard it was a guy named "Andrew" who made those. A lot of people expressed their interested to find them. I sent them in the right direction

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by wyze2099

I was hoping to learn the name of the octopus mutant, but it wasn't given unless I missed it. I did like that the fight with Leo was so one-sided in Leo's favor, though props to the octopus guy for actually being healthy enough to make it back to HQ, let alone give a debriefing after that beating.

Same here. Even though I had already seen the preview, I half-expected Leo to chomp down on one of octopus guy's tentacles to break free during the fight. It'll be a waste if that doesn't happen at some other point down the line.

[lonewarrior20]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

Same here. Even though I had already seen the preview, I half-expected Leo to chomp down on one of octopus guy's tentacles to break free during the fight. It'll be a waste if that doesn't happen at some other point down the line.

Not to mention he blinded leo with ink.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by lonewarrior20

Not to mention he blinded leo with ink.

Literally a dirty fighter!

[Ninjinister]

Originally Posted by neatoman

So this issue is basically about Raph getting a motorcycle for the first half, the second half is Leo sneaking into the Mutanimals HQ overhearing Hob isn't very popular, to eventually find out Hob doesn't like having the Turtles nearby... both of which I'm sure we all figured out like six issues ago, right? Brilliant...

It seems to me that the first half could have been reduced to about 12-25% of the total page count, we really don't need half the issue just be an explaination for how he gets a bike, and if Tusk to return she could be fleshed out in a future issue. And the actual part about Leo sneaking around before he gets to spy on Hob could probably be reduced to about one page, then maybe the part with the disgruntled enforcers could be about one page as it is and the stuff about Hob could be reduced to about two pages.

By my count what we get here could have been done in about eight pages, twelve at most. Granted the idea of the grunts being dissatisfied and Hob being a bit focused on the wrong thing aren't bad set-up but it could be done in fewer pages. An issue like this, which is almost nothing but set-up, might want to set up even more things?

It's about the journey, not the destination. People who I talked to who love motorcycles and read the book were thrilled about the first portion. A lot of people also liked Leo doing The Ninja Thing complete with disguises.

[TigerClaw]

One thing I noticed about this issue and I don't know if anyone ever brought it up. But it looks like those mutant weasels might have been animal born then human born. As soon as one of them yelled out DADA! Its more then likely that they are another result of Old Hob creating more mutants.

Also how Old Hob reacted to seeing them and then trying to apologize for what he did to them.

Originally Posted by martinitolove

Really hope "Mutant Town" will end soon for good and children (weasels & albino), amoureous relationships (same or opposite sex), fifth wheel on a cart (Jennika) - all will disappear. Turtles will again fight the Foot Clan, Shredder, B&R, Krang, Ch'rell, Hob, and Tom Waltz returns to writing. I LOVED the first 100 issues, but can't stand 101-onward. It's like watching Rise after loving 2003 and 2012. Hope this nightmare will end soon. And don't care about Last Ronin. Dear IDW, please make really good main series issues again! Please!

Do not want to offend anyone of the creative team, but can't remain silent any longer. Thank you for the stage.

Not gonna happen its hear to stay. They are done with dealing with the Foot Clan for the time being. Right now they started there own clan to honor Splinter and are protecting the citizens of Mutant Town. The Foot Clan will no doubt make some appearances once in a while. But for now this series is moving forward and expanding on other areas.

[Leo656]

I got curious and went poking around to see what the book's sales numbers have been for about the past year or so. I can only find sales numbers from the first quarter or this year, but if you look from last Summer through Early-Spring, those sales numbers do tell an interesting tale...

July.: TMNT #96 - 22,752
Aug.: TMNT #97 - 38,977
Sept.: TMNT #98 - 34,373
Oct.: TMNT #99 - 21,860
Dec.: TMNT #100 - 53,954
Jan.: TMNT #101 - 20,470
Jan.: TMNT #102 - 13,780
Feb.: TMNT #103 - 15,253
Mar.: TMNT #104 - 14,869

Obviously this excludes the various mini-series that came out around the same time. And I have no idea how the hiatus affected things from April-onward, since I can't find those numbers.

Allowing for all that, though... Ouch. Obviously #100's sales were artificially boosted by being a "Major Milestone" issue, and issue #101 was more in line with the book's standard sales going by the previous few months... but that's a helluva dip after that. This book's numbers seem "jumpy" and uneven in general, anyway, but at a glance, one could be forgiven for concluding that the "new direction" hasn't exactly been a hit. More than HALF of the people who bought the book last Summer have since disappeared for whatever reason. Again, mid-to-high 30s seems a bit artificially high for this series anyway, with sales in the 20,000 range apparently being much more typical overall, but even "just" a drop from 20,000 to 15,000 means that they lost a full quarter of their readership since the shift to the "Mutant Town" storyline.

That's something to seriously consider. #100 is an outlier, so disregard that number, and start with #101 and consider that the start of the "new direction". Over 20,000 people decided to give it a shot, but since then about 5,000-7,000 of them apparently didn't like what they saw. Those aren't inconsequential numbers.

I'm very curious to know what sales have been like since #105. I can only imagine they've dipped further, since it looks like almost all books' sales have dropped significantly since the pandemic hit. If we assume that they lost some more people due to forces outside their control (since that happened industry-wide) and estimate around 10,000 sales for TMNT just as a nice round number... that means potentially up to HALF the people who stuck around for #101 have since found better things to do. Again, it's not IDW's fault there was a pandemic that affected sales across the entire comic book industry, but it couldn't have come at a worse time for this book, specifically.

That pattern doesn't bode well, to be perfectly blunt. There's no way this storyline is "here to stay" UNLESS the book just plain gets cancelled before there's a resolution to it. Loss of readership is loss of revenue, and at the end of the day they're still running a business. They can't just bleed out another 3-5,000 people every two or three months. It's not likely that will actually happen - I expect it to pretty much stabilize between 10,000 and 12,000 at a guess - but if that pattern of loss DID continue, it would be catastrophic.

Put simply, this story arc simply can't keep going much longer for their own sake. They absolutely want to get those numbers back into the mid-20s, at the absolute least, not the low-teens. And it's safe to say that they haven't exactly won people over or attracted any new readers with "Mutant Town". Quite rather the opposite. It's all there in black and white.

I find it interesting that the first "big dip" came right around the time news of Jennika as the Fifth Turtle came out, right before #100. And things have just gone exponentially from there.

I think at the absolute least, it's safe to say that they over-estimated how well-received this whole entire experiment would be. I know that they had a predetermined endpoint in mind for the story, supposedly, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were already talking about moving things up a little bit, just to see if they can entice some of those wayward people back. It's been known to happen.

"Interesting".