TMNT: The Armageddon Game: Opening Moves #1 Preview and Discussion

[Sumac]

I think, being forced to write for the book as a temporary replacement writer doesn't excuse bad quality of writing.

[Leo656]

I mean, to a point I get it. If you had planned to hop onto a book for like, 10 issues, and that turns into 30 or 50 mid-stream... then yeah, it's going to affect the presentation of everything, from Plot to Pacing. You can DO it, but it's not the job you signed up for and being forced to make adjustments and "book it on the fly" is going to create some issues. There's just no getting around that.

I mean even small-scale, like say you show up for work at 7am and you "know" you're leaving at 5, but then around 3pm someone just says "Hey man, sorry but you gotta stay until midnight." I've had this happen often, it affects everything you do for the rest of the day. You can push through it, but it's not what you signed up for and you're definitely not going to be putting in your best work because mentally you're off-balance now. Especially if the possibility of putting that extra time in was sprung on you out of nowhere with no previous conversation.

I kinda think when Campbell took over the book, the possibility of it being for longer than initially agreed upon WAS probably discussed, though, at some point. I don't know that for a fact but something tells me that it was a conversation. But if it had been set in stone from the beginning then they probably might have done some things differently, sure.

Not that I'm going out of my way to defend the post-100 state of things, frankly I think it's all been just one bad choice after another and then doubling down. But the pacing/plotting MAY have been affected by a change in plans for the length of Campbells' tenure, sure. Especially if there was some "...And don't touch this other writer's toys, in the meantime" going on, which there may have been.

Just to play Devil's Advocate.

[neatoman]

Which of course opens up the question: Why not bring in Allor or Burnham to handle this extension considering they have more actual writing experience?

[CyberCubed]

I honestly feel like IDW has exhausted most of its main plots anyway, with the Armaggeddon game hopefully providing closure to Rat King, Krang, Null, etc. once and for all.

We already had all the main villains defeated numerous times, The Pantheon story was dragging even way before issue 100, and now they're just introducing random mutants that hadn't appeared yet like the punk frogs, groundchuck/dirtbag, rahzar/tokka just filling in a quota of who hasn't appeared yet.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I honestly feel like IDW has exhausted most of its main plots anyway, with the Armaggeddon game hopefully providing closure to Rat King, Krang, Null, etc. once and for all.

We already had all the main villains defeated numerous times, The Pantheon story was dragging even way before issue 100, and now they're just introducing random mutants that hadn't appeared yet like the punk frogs, groundchuck/dirtbag, rahzar/tokka just filling in a quota of who hasn't appeared yet.

Well, if the "temporary replacement turning into much longer temporary replacement" theory is true, this story structure makes sense. It's like Campbell has no idea what to actually do, so we end up with "Who hasn't shown up in the comic yet? Groundchuck and Dirtbag? They're cool! I'll put 'em in this week!" Of course, I'm pretty sure that in the hands of a talented writer, even a rudimentary monster of the week plot could still be entertaining and well written.

[Coola Yagami]

Feels good to see read IDW TMNT again. The Shredder flashbacks were good for newcomers since this is pretty much this third go at life. Plus coming back to this, I get that feeling of 'hey whoa, I remember that'. It makes it feel less like I'm jumping back in blindly after missing 30 or so issues.

I'm surprised to see Nova Posse/Nova Squadron back and want to see how they might factor into all this.

I got my review up, but I do miss the days where Spengler used to review them too. I always avoided his reviews before I did mine so I wouldn't accidentally repeat something he said or let his thoughts influence mine.

https://markepicblogofrandomness.blo...ing-moves.html

Question though, what are Ch'Rell's current whereabouts in the series?

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Zog The Magnificent

Well, if the "temporary replacement turning into much longer temporary replacement" theory is true, this story structure makes sense. It's like Campbell has no idea what to actually do, so we end up with "Who hasn't shown up in the comic yet? Groundchuck and Dirtbag? They're cool! I'll put 'em in this week!" Of course, I'm pretty sure that in the hands of a talented writer, even a rudimentary monster of the week plot could still be entertaining and well written.

Yeah but the overall "story" of IDW TMNT almost feels like it's over. Rat King is clearly the "final boss" of this universe, once they do away with him in some form most of the threats will be done. Krang and Ch'rell will likely be defeated again at some point so the Utroms/Triceratons will find a planet to live in peace, and then Baxter retired from public office. Bishop, Hun and Slash are already dead.

Null has been such a non-entity since her debut in 2016 there's almost nothing to talk about. She's been around for over 5 years and they did the absolute bare minimum with her there's nothing to talk about.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Yeah but the overall "story" of IDW TMNT almost feels like it's over. Rat King is clearly the "final boss" of this universe, once they do away with him in some form most of the threats will be done. Krang and Ch'rell will likely be defeated again at some point so the Utroms/Triceratons will find a planet to live in peace, and then Baxter retired from public office. Bishop, Hun and Slash are already dead.

Null has been such a non-entity since her debut in 2016 there's almost nothing to talk about. She's been around for over 5 years and they did the absolute bare minimum with her there's nothing to talk about.

Oh yeah, I agree. The Pantheon has always been IDW's endgame. It's been the driving force in the plot and backstory since the beginning. At this point I hope the comic is just allowed to be done with after Armageddon Game. One last good story to close it out, giving it a strong finish and making up a bit for the last two and half years. At this point I could forgive a few left over plot threads if we could just get a mostly satisfying conclusion. Though like Endgame the movie, I'm worried they won't let it end and it will just keep getting worse.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Zog The Magnificent

Though like Endgame the movie, I'm worried they won't let it end and it will just keep getting worse.

Of course. How else are they gonna do Battle of the Bands II?

[Zog The Magnificent]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Of course. How else are they gonna do Battle of the Bands II?

Special Crossover Issue: The TMNT Meet Bill and Ted and ROCK OUT!

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by Zog The Magnificent

Special Crossover Issue: The TMNT Meet Bill and Ted and ROCK OUT!

Please don't ruin Bill & Ted too.... please.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Zog The Magnificent

Special Crossover Issue: The TMNT Meet Bill and Ted and ROCK OUT!

The future now depends on them!!!

COWABUNGA!!!
STATION!!!

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Zog The Magnificent

Genuine question, could someone summarize why they did not like IDW Bishop's origin? I continually saw that people here did not like it, but I still don't really understand why. Yes, this version of the character was more overtly villainous, but he still had most of the core character traits and, in my opinion, worked quite well in the context of the IDW iteration. I really don't get why people did not like this Bishop as much, or why him being deformed takes away from his actual character at all, given his role in the story.

I enjoyed the extended life of a man on a twisted mission to protect the planet from alien threats only to cone around and be an ambassador between species. So taking away an origin that I enjoyed and replacing it with what we got was disappointing.

Instead we got a guy who wanted to be just like his father, but was a deformed dwarf in a shell trying to one up his father in his old job. Sure, he looked like Agent Bishop perfectly, but it was just a robotic body suit being piloted. Sure he is a threat being responsible for Slash's death and even killed his own father. Yet it was a letdown with the twist. It took away from the threat and potential for the character. Sure, he can look the same and have a different origin, but it was underwhelming. What if instead of his father that was John Bishop and Agent Bishop was his perfect clone removing the original? That would have been better.


There may have been a poetic end in that Slash's clone killed John Bishop, but considering his character in the 2003 cartoon he can transfer his essence to a clone and continue to 'protect the planet in his twisted way. If Palpatine is allowed to return and undermine the whole chosen one bringing balance to the force from Return of The Jedi's definitive climax, why not?

[Zog The Magnificent]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I enjoyed the extended life of a man on a twisted mission to protect the planet from alien threats only to cone around and be an ambassador between species. So taking away an origin that I enjoyed and replacing it with what we got was disappointing.

Instead we got a guy who wanted to be just like his father, but was a deformed dwarf in a shell trying to one up his father in his old job. Sure, he looked like Agent Bishop perfectly, but it was just a robotic body suit being piloted. Sure he is a threat being responsible for Slash's death and even killed his own father. Yet it was a letdown with the twist. It took away from the threat and potential for the character. Sure, he can look the same and have a different origin, but it was underwhelming. What if instead of his father that was John Bishop and Agent Bishop was his perfect clone removing the original? That would have been better.


There may have been a poetic end in that Slash's clone killed John Bishop, but considering his character in the 2003 cartoon he can transfer his essence to a clone and continue to 'protect the planet in his twisted way. If Palpatine is allowed to return and undermine the whole chosen one bringing balance to the force from Return of The Jedi's definitive climax, why not?

I suppose I still don't understand why that's a sticking point for you. At his core Bishop is a guy who's dedicated to "protecting the country/planet" at all costs. The 2003 Bishop was more willing to work with the Turtles on occasion, and had more scruples, while the IDW Bishop, as mentioned previously, was the same general premise but more overtly villainous and sadistic about it. If we take away the "deformed in an exosuit" origin, his role in the story doesn't change and his actions can mostly be carried out in the same way. He just becomes an inexplicably powerful agent who could still have problems with his father, still kill him, and still menace the turtles, still take over Slash, still resort to everything he did throught the series. The irony is still present in both versions; he's a freak protecting the world from so-called freaks. I guess I mostly don't understand why it's underwhelming one way or the other, or why it matters to his actual role in the present day story.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Zog The Magnificent

I suppose I still don't understand why that's a sticking point for you. At his core Bishop is a guy who's dedicated to "protecting the country/planet" at all costs. The 2003 Bishop was more willing to work with the Turtles on occasion, and had more scruples, while the IDW Bishop, as mentioned previously, was the same general premise but more overtly villainous and sadistic about it. If we take away the "deformed in an exosuit" origin, his role in the story doesn't change and his actions can mostly be carried out in the same way. He just becomes an inexplicably powerful agent who could still have problems with his father, still kill him, and still menace the turtles, still take over Slash, still resort to everything he did throught the series. The irony is still present in both versions; he's a freak protecting the world from so-called freaks. I guess I mostly don't understand why it's underwhelming one way or the other, or why it matters to his actual role in the present day story.

It's more to it than that. It's his abduction during the Battle of New Orleans which was such a traumatic experience that it set in motion his life's mission. It could have been Roswell, of IDW wanted to differiate. In IDW it seems that he wants to follow in his father's footsteps and one up him. It takes away from the personal trauma that drives him to want to remove what he sees as threats to humanity. In the 2003 cartoon he is in the classification of villains who think they are heroes and must achieve what they perceive as noble through their devious deeds. I like to see those like Magneto, Ra's al Ghul, Black Adam, and Sinestro as it gives more layers to the characters.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

It's more to it than that. It's his abduction during the Battle of New Orleans which was such a traumatic experience that it set in motion his life's mission. It could have been Roswell, of IDW wanted to differiate. In IDW it seems that he wants to follow in his father's footsteps and one up him. It takes away from the personal trauma that drives him to want to remove what he sees as threats to humanity. In the 2003 cartoon he is in the classification of villains who think they are heroes and must achieve what they perceive as noble through their devious deeds. I like to see those like Magneto, Ra's al Ghul, Black Adam, and Sinestro as it gives more layers to the characters.

I see. As I understand it, you're saying that by removing the original alien aduction, which set his xenophobia in motion, and replacing it with the origin where he wanted to "prove" something to his father and in general just being a worse person, that he is, in your opinion, a less nuanced character, being more evil than misguided, and is therefore less interesting?

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Zog The Magnificent

I see. As I understand it, you're saying that by removing the original alien aduction, which set his xenophobia in motion, and replacing it with the origin where he wanted to "prove" something to his father and in general just being a worse person, that he is, in your opinion, a less nuanced character, being more evil than misguided, and is therefore less interesting?

Exactly!

[neatoman]

I do have one legitimate question about Krang and Ch'rell's relationship. Ch'rell was being kept in stasis for as long as he was because his loyalty to Krang would potentially make him a serious danger, yet here we are given a schism between the two which is related to one of Krang's biggest fears and this schism may also be exploitable according to Shredder.

So what happened? Did his devotion waver, did he become more devoted later on or did others have a skewed perception of their relationship?

[MikeandRaph87]

As a history major tying in The Toad Baron with Socrates does not make any sense. A hemlock drinking contest? Socrates was forced to make a choice, either accept an exile or die by poison. He chose to die by poison and not recant his teachings. So why would The Toad Baron be in a hemlock drinking contest? Not to mention that Toad Baron would know that hemlock is lethal? Maybe I am nitpicking, but it was a bad example when using History as reference.

We learn that Aka is not dead after all. So, if The Pantheon is immortal, why would Kitsune need to go into stasis? It also seems odd that Saki would not be aware of her immortality considering he is Kitsune's husband.

[TomWaltz]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

As a history major tying in The Toad Baron with Socrates does not make any sense. A hemlock drinking contest? Socrates was forced to make a choice, either accept an exile or die by poison. He chose to die by poison and not recant his teachings. So why would The Toad Baron be in a hemlock drinking contest? Not to mention that Toad Baron would know that hemlock is lethal? Maybe I am nitpicking, but it was a bad example when using History as reference.

We learn that Aka is not dead after all. So, if The Pantheon is immortal, why would Kitsune need to go into stasis? It also seems odd that Saki would not be aware of her immortality considering he is Kitsune's husband.

The history you've been TOLD is true, at least. And a hemlock drinking contest is right up Toad Baron's alley. Or lily pad.

Shredder and Kitsune aren't married. And Saki's been oblivious to a lot of things... by design.

Good eye -- there is a reason Kitsune went into stasis instead. Keep reading.

To answer another earlier question on this thread -- Ch'rell's a zealot. Big time. But will we learn he's a zealot to Krang... or to a cause...?

Keep. Reading. If Opening Moves does its job, you SHOULD have a lot of questions going into the main event.

Tom W.