Rises worst offense?

[ToTheNines]

To you, what is the most egregious thing Rise did?

Now that I’ve finally seen it all, my answer isn’t even a creative liberty. I still feel that Rise being rushed in while the 2012 show was barely in the grave was the worst thing they could have done.

I remember being disgusted when I saw the character design reveal, but they all eventually grew on me. But I definitely would have preferred a cooling down period between shows. Seemed crazy and borderline disrespectful when all that news of a new show was coming out simultaneously with season 5 news.

[ResidentEvil7]

The awful animation. It looks like a kid drew the cartoon.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by ResidentEvil7

The awful animation. It looks like a kid drew the cartoon.

I think you're confusing animation with character design. Animation wise, Rise was very good, and the very best animated eps of Rise or the movie is the best TMNT animation has ever looked.

Anyway for me a lot of the early Season 1 eps were too comedy focused and a little boring. It felt less like a TMNT show and more like something like Spongebob with a little action in it. Some eps were better than others of course, but it didn't really shift back into a TMNT cartoon into the latter half of its run.

[neatoman]

I watched the series from beginning to end I can't really say I hated it, it's mostly that I just didn't like the whole "let's be different for the sake of it" thing.

I think the legitimately worst thing might have been stuff like Repomantis just kind of living his life as it being turned into a monster didn't change his life at all. Stuff like that just seems to devalue the idea of consequences, as laughably idiotic as Muckman's acceptance into society was in the 2012 show, at least the show paid lip service to the idea that being turned into a waste monster wasn't something to be ignored.

[IndigoErth]

To me? Broken record... you don't throw Leo's entire personality under a bus, set it on fire, and pretend "He'd get to act like an idiot if it wasn't for 'this terrible burden' on him, isn't that great?" (as if his serious personality only exists because of his role) and expect not to lose my support.

I mean, one of the TMNT's strengths was always the varying personalities (once developed past the initial Mirage period) that allow a wide range of people to connect with it via a favorite that they either relate to most or look up to/respect certain things about them. Rise pretty much took that away in an effort to make the "boring" and "nerd" Turtles "cooler" by becoming a cocky dumbass and a cocky smartass. (Raph became bland and Mikey was technically the only improvement after more previous versions since he wasn't stupid, but he sometimes showed a mean streak that isn't typical of him.)


There's other things I don't care for -- design, mystical themes for an entire show are "meh," and I have a real hate for low frame rate animation in general -- but would look past to check out a TMNT entry, but that part is too much of a turn off.

[Cowabung-Gal]

What they did to Splinter.

[TheLabRat]

I have no problem with Raph being an eldest brother and the leader, but when they made Leo the leader in the S2 finale, Rise Raph entire character development was wasted.

I actually like Rise Mikey, at least he's much better than 2012 Mikey.

[Zachatello00]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I remember being disgusted when I saw the character design reveal..

When I saw that reveal, I was both upset and at the same time strangely at peace with it. Because it clearly wasn't for me, and that upset me, but then I also realized at that point that I was no longer the target audience for the show. At that point in my life, I was 35, and realizing that was kind of a relief. I would soon have all of the NICK series on DVD, and it's being far superior (IMHO) meant that I didn't have to keep up with a series that wasn't created with me in mind, didn't look like they understood the property, and was definitely aimed at younger viewers. I could watch the dvds of the better series at my leisure, and that's just what I did.

To be clear, I haven't stopped paying attention to the Turtles, but RISE and Mutant Mayhem, for that matter, I've largely skipped, and I'm not sad about it.

[IMJ]

It's existence at all because it reflects a mentality.

[ticktack]

• *Outside perspective* +advice
They instantly change so much that it felt like a self-sabotage. Tmnt 2012 was also out of place with their appearance, but the difference was it had a large support-mob to their benefit, telling everybody, who complained against it, "it is not for you."


• *Positives* +advice
Tmnt 2018 involved aspects like inclusion and mental diversity. Sometimes, I read the comments and see that it could have done more in that aspect:
1. I'm reading about Raph and Mikey being less appreciated and overlooked in the fandom and plot. Here's the link: https://www.tumblr.com/prtyhat/780127602313773057
2. And that Karai could have been alive, so if the show ever got another chance, we could have later looked at familial dynamics between Grandma and TMNT. Even after the episodes were cut.


• *Negative* (reason: the setting before the show started)
Another problem I had was that I didn't want to go back to any tmnt material after tmnt 2012. Years later, I started having some interest in MM or Tales (they were a little grounded), and then a few fans blocked me for me talking prejudiced. Suddenly, I went to Rise; they just looked adults (pretty), and it had a lore (another reason it has fans).

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Zachatello00

When I saw that reveal, I was both upset and at the same time strangely at peace with it. Because it clearly wasn't for me, and that upset me, but then I also realized at that point that I was no longer the target audience for the show. At that point in my life, I was 35, and realizing that was kind of a relief. I would soon have all of the NICK series on DVD, and it's being far superior (IMHO) meant that I didn't have to keep up with a series that wasn't created with me in mind, didn't look like they understood the property, and was definitely aimed at younger viewers. I could watch the dvds of the better series at my leisure, and that's just what I did.

To be clear, I haven't stopped paying attention to the Turtles, but RISE and Mutant Mayhem, for that matter, I've largely skipped, and I'm not sad about it.

I’m a little younger, but yeah I had the exact same experience. The timing of Rise coming in, 2012 ending, IDW going down the tubes and me getting pissed at some mods here all around the same time in 2017 caused me to check out for a long time. (I also got married and my career started taking off around this same time.)

Crazy to think it was like 7 ago. I don’t even remember what brought me back last year. Might have been the 40th anniversary comic.

[ticktack]

Originally Posted by TheLabRat

I have no problem with Raph being an eldest brother and the leader, but when they made Leo the leader in the S2 finale, Rise Raph entire character development was wasted.

I actually like Rise Mikey. At least he's much better than 2012 Mikey.

Instead of an indiciplined assh*le (secret favorite and a main character from the developer(s)) and a concessionary character and another 2 background concessionary characters. Tmnt 2007 movie is what I've described,

we got a readily approachable and caring lad who took responsibility and took care of his brothers. Rise Raph is what I've described.
Honestly, I didn't mind the serie's leadership change. But later, the movie's leadership change was hastened. And I agree with you too about what you've said.
Another fan has written that they could have become co-leaders. My take is that Leo could have become more responsible, understanding, supportive, rather than getting in the way, fooling around, and just coping with things with humor.

[Wolfie65]

The whole thing is an insult to Turtle fans everywhere.
It makes the Platinum Dunes movies and The Next Mutation look downright great by comparison.
Go Ninja go Ninja go - away !

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Wolfie65

The whole thing is an insult to Turtle fans everywhere.
It makes the Platinum Dunes movies and The Next Mutation look downright great by comparison.
Go Ninja go Ninja go - away !

Holding Platinum Dunes in higher regard than Rise is a wild take.

PD tried to correct course with re-shoots and wedging Saki in there, but you can still feel the spirit of white Shredder in the final product.

Rise had the decency to keep the Oroku-Hamato feud at the core of the origin, however heavily reworked. PD had no Hamato Yoshi, which is too of a slap in the face to the source material for me to forgive.

Rise was openly trying to flip everything on its head and create something new. PD was trying and failing to nostalgia-bait and steal Transformers’ swag.

[neatoman]

Also, PD had the worst versions of Bebop and Rocksteady ever, which is really saying something because Bebop and Rocksteady are really terrible characters by default.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Also, PD had the worst versions of Bebop and Rocksteady ever, which is really saying something because Bebop and Rocksteady are really terrible characters by default.

I would argue they’re not as annoying as the 2012 versions. I didn’t completely hate Zeck and Steranko, but they were overused.

The stupidity of their PD “origin” is hard to look past though.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I would argue they’re not as annoying as the 2012 versions. I didn’t completely hate Zeck and Steranko, but they were overused.

The stupidity of their PD “origin” is hard to look past though.

Yeah, what the hell was up with that origin? "Genes from animal ancestors"? I'm pretty damn sure humans didn't evolve from pigs and rhinos, I don't even want to think about how it would have been possible for just them in particular to be descended from pigs and rhinos, that would just be gross.

I don't like the whole "turn into the last thing you touched" rule invented for the FW cartoon because it just opens up a can of worms you don't get from the ooze simply creating humanoids every time, but at least it makes some childish sense for why someone would gain any given animal trait. The PD explanation would only allow for humanity's transitional forms in evolution, which again, does not include pigs and rhinos.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Yeah, what the hell was up with that origin? "Genes from animal ancestors"? I'm pretty damn sure humans didn't evolve from pigs and rhinos, I don't even want to think about how it would have been possible for just them in particular to be descended from pigs and rhinos, that would just be gross.

It's so absurd, I always saw that part as a creationist writer trying to write about evolution. And getting it very wrong.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by neatoman

I don't like the whole "turn into the last thing you touched" rule invented for the FW cartoon because it just opens up a can of worms you don't get from the ooze simply creating humanoids every time, but at least it makes some childish sense for why someone would gain any given animal trait. The PD explanation would only allow for humanity's transitional forms in evolution, which again, does not include pigs and rhinos.

The FW rule was stupid, but they were at least mostly consistent with it for 10 years. But it’s very convenient that all the animals happened to turn humanoid. There was never a single animal + animal mutant.

I say this all the time, but as much as I love the 2012 show, its mutagen rules were complete nonsense. Right from the jump, I guess you can reasonably assume Yoshi pet all 4 turtles before leaving the pet store, but why didn’t he turn into a mutant turtle? Because a rat scurried past him and barely touched his shoe? What?

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

It's so absurd, I always saw that part as a creationist writer trying to write about evolution. And getting it very wrong.

Yeah I thought the same thing. And considering the line was delivered by known religious whack job Tyler Perry, it’s even funnier.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

The FW rule was stupid, but they were at least mostly consistent with it for 10 years. But it’s very convenient that all the animals happened to turn humanoid. There was never a single animal + animal mutant.

I think there is a dragonfly or something that turned into a rhino because Rocksteady touched it but I think that's about it for combining two animals that don't involve humans (well, I guess technically there would still be human traits in Rocksteady but the rhino part is what mattered there). Then there are of course weird ones like Muckman and Mutagen Man, which didn't really seem to be hybrids of anything in particular. Then there is of course the bulls that fused together, try to wrap your head around that one.

We know why it was generally consistent in being mostly humanoid animals though, many (if not most) mutants were first and foremost created for the toyline and the toyline went with that kind of design by virtue of aping the turtles. I honestly doubt that in the mind of the toy designers, any of these characters were meant to have a substantially different origin from the turtles, given that their respective origins weren't consistent between FW and Archie.

If I had to bet, I'd say the only reason and I mean the only reason this "last thing you touched" rule was ever implemented, was ultimately just so they wouldn't have to kill Hamato Yoshi. The reason I think that is because they also wrote out Tang Shen and Nagi, both of who just existed to die as well.

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I say this all the time, but as much as I love the 2012 show, its mutagen rules were complete nonsense. Right from the jump, I guess you can reasonably assume Yoshi pet all 4 turtles before leaving the pet store, but why didn’t he turn into a mutant turtle? Because a rat scurried past him and barely touched his shoe? What?

Same basic problem in just about any iteration that insists on Yoshi and Splinter being the same character really. You pretty much have to contrive a reason for why there is a rat there every time, Rise does it and so does FW, it's arguably the worst in FW since there he came into contact with the ooze by picking up the turtles. Like I said, I think Yoshi the same character as Splinter in FW to avoid killing him, I would not be surprised if David Wise originally just copied the origin verbatim (in Mirage he did come into contact with the ooze when cleaning the turtles) but changed it when he was told he couldn't kill Yoshi, because it's pretty weird that he didn't consider the consequences of keeping the same reason for the contact.

But I think for the 2012 show there are far, far, far worse instances of playing fast and loose with the ooze than the typical can of worms. like:

1. Why does getting turned into a monkey also give you psychic powers?
2. Why did Pete partially gain human skin (and nipples) when that applied to nobody else?
3. Why did the Rat King become a psychic zombie instead of a hybrid?
4. Why did Timothy just turn into goop instead of anything useful?
5. Why did the wasps just become giant mind controlling wasps?
6. Why did Kirby become deformed and mindless when that generally doesn't happen?
7. Why did the squirrels turn into aliens from the alien movies?
8. Why did Dogpound become a zombie wolf version of Rahzar after a second dunk in the mutagen?
9. Why did the mushrooms gain fear spores?
10. Why does the ooze mutate things (and in particular, why does it create Kraang-like beings even when working correctly) when it's essentially just milk?
11. Why did transforming into sparrow give that one guy the ability to create illusions?
12. Why is April immune due to being part Utrom even though we know Utroms aren't really immune?
13. How can you fuse to pizza (assuming that wasn't a dream)?
14. Why did Karai's hands turn into heads?
15. Why did the medicine derivative not work like regular ooze on Leo but still did on the grass?
16. How could a car, a non-living object that has nothing even close to biochemistry, mutate?
17. Why did the chicken just get a giant brain?
18. Why was a bird literally fused into the same being as what it ate if, you know, everyone eats other living things all the time and don't automatically fuse to their stomach contents?
19. How does "control of garbage" work as a power when garbage is a subjective concept?
20. Why does Shredder sprout metal blades (and why was ooze the recommended treatment for nerve pinches in the first place)?