Nick Spencer and Ryan Ottley Taking Over Amazing Spider-Man

[ZariusTwo]

This video does a good job of trying to address, and raise concerns, over the pacing of Spencer's storytelling while still praising the book for what it's doing.

[Galactus]

I believed this about Slott's run but it's equally true of Spencer's too is that how well it's regarded will be judged more in if it does anything to reverse One More Day.

If it somehow nullifies the Mephisto deal and then all of the issues readers have had with it will magically go away. If not then the whole thing will be written off as a flop even the parts that are well written.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Galactus

If not then the whole thing will be written off as a flop even the parts that are well written.

Much like how the Clone Saga is regarded as a flop because, on top of being massively convoluted, it didn't culminate in Peter and MJ becoming parents by the end of it, and for killing off Ben Reilly.

I think a lot of fans are also just tired of creative runs on Spidey ending on major downers. Slott's run ended with a nice little standalone, but the prior issue killed off Flash Thompson, JMS' run ended with OMD, Mackie's era ended with Peter and MJ's brief separation, the Clone Saga went through multiple creative teams but ended with the demises of Ben and Baby May. I think Peter deserves a win by the end of at least one guy's run at this point. I feel one of the only runs that ends on an "upswing" is Roger Sterns', even if there's a cliffhanger that leads to the original Secret Wars.

[AquaParade]

I love following my favorite creative teams in comics, so naturally, I long for Marvel to put an exciting name on the book again. Someone who actually has a bit of agency or power when it comes to the creative direction. Someone who can throw their weight around. Most of all, someone with a bold unique take on the character.
I've enjoyed bits of Brand New Day, Dan Slott's run, and even the first Spencer arc, but nothing truly exciting has been done since Superior Spider-Man, which was pretty much an anomaly.

I guess part of the problem is that Spider-Man doesn't need top tier writers and artists to sell itself. You could argue the same for Batman, yet D.C. actually put an effort into putting exciting new creators on the book. Batman has consistently had one of the hottest names in comics. Morrison, Snyder, King. And Capullo was an inspired choice for artist.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

nothing truly exciting has been done since Superior Spider-Man, which was pretty much an anomaly.

Superior Spider-Man was just as bad as everything else at the time

King

I don't mind King's run, but it flopped hard after they didn't go through with the Bat-Wedding, that's why King was removed from the book early.

[AquaParade]

Superior Spider-Man was a lot of fun as well as a big success. Subjective, of course.

I thought King's Batman run was just okay. I loved some of the shorter stories. But I really love that DC brought him on board for Batman. They care who writes Batman.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

Superior Spider-Man was a lot of fun as well as a big success. Subjective, of course.

Anything by Dan Slott post 2010 is mostly s*it. The story made everyone in Peter's circle and in the superhero community look like idiots for a year and it ended in the most mean-spirited way possible.

Success is no measure of quality. The main Spider book didn't keep those fans when it finished, and the Superior Spider-Man title they launched later was quickly cancelled. It was a gimmick with a limited shelf life

They care who writes Batman.

Again, this is why they took him off the book.

[ZariusTwo]

BIG spoiler for ASM#60 tomorrow

Spoiler:

Doctor Strange returns eager to find out what's wrong with Peter's soul, and goes to the one person who might know...MEPHISTO

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Anything by Dan Slott post 2010 is mostly s*it. The story made everyone in Peter's circle and in the superhero community look like idiots for a year and it ended in the most mean-spirited way possible.

Success is no measure of quality. The main Spider book didn't keep those fans when it finished, and the Superior Spider-Man title they launched later was quickly cancelled. It was a gimmick with a limited shelf life

Success is a measure of quality on some level. Other then that, all you have is subjectivity, which is great, but there's no way to measure it.
The main Spider book not keeping fans after Superior Spider-Man is indicative of the book after Superior Spider-Man, not of Superior Spider-Man itself. Superior Spider-Man brought in a lot of new readers. And yes, the book lost them when it ended - that actually speaks to my point, as opposed to yours.

I've seen the complaint of Pete's inner-circle acting dumb for not realizing that Dr. Octopus had taken over Pete's body, and while I accept it as a complaint, I think it's overblown.

How often do you suspect that your friend has been body-snatched? It's much easier to chalk things up to Peter turning into a jerk.
Sure, you can point out that fact that 'we are in the Marvel universe, where anything is possible, and his friends should know to suspect that someone has taken over his body', but I think suspension of disbelief is just going to vary on that one. Again, I understand the complaint, but it seems nitpicky to me. It's going to take a **** load to make me suspect that my friend has had his body taken over by someone else. Most people would never consider this.

It wasn't perfect, and it ended in rather lackluster fashion, but it was an exciting moment in comics that built a lot of anticipation and created a lot of fun discussion and theories online. It was bold to have Doc Ock take over as Spider-Man for as long as they did, as least compared to just how sterile the rest of the industry has become. Keep in mind, this was before Marvel Now really kicked off and we had each of our heroes being replaced by someone else, typically female. It actually felt pretty fresh back in 2012.

Again, this is why they took him off the book

I'm not sure what your point is here. I'm not vouching for King's Batman like you think I am. I simply appreciate the effort DC went through to get King on the book in the first place. He was a promising choice and you don't see Marvel going after Morrison, King, or Snyder for Spider-Man. A for effort.

[ZariusTwo]

I've now read ASM#60

Peter uses the acting technique to vent on everything that he's been before and after Harry's return, how he can't stop the darkness growing stronger despite every status quo shift, from being an Avenger to being the head of Parker Industries, he always ends up in a poorer place afterwards, he reassess himself and begs Harry to tell him what to do next, to help him understand, he wants his friend back and will confess anything he can remember to make that happen. He breaks down and Mary Jane comforts him.

MJ tells Peter she's going to stay in New York and help him heal up mentally, Peter heads off to attend class while MJ sticks around the theatre and talks to Mysterio, who was eavesdropping. The two have a working partnership. MJ wants to tell Peter she's working with Beck but feels there's too much going on with Kindred, and she wants Beck to come clean about his involvement with him as she strongly suspects he is associated with Harry.

As previously spoiled above, Doctor Strange returns from the astral plane and has a talk with Mephisto in Vegas. Mephisto doesn't know who Kindred is, but Strange wants to know a more important thing...who has tampered with the soul of Peter Parker

Despite my previous frustrations, I'd say Spencer is definitely in the top five tier of Spidey writers now in my view, he 'gets' Mary Jane more than any other current Marvel writer, and I love how he keeps MJ likeable despite her dealing with secrets that could really test Peter's faith in her. It's a good thing we had the Amazing MJ series prior to this that gave us more insight into MJ's motivations, otherwise I'd be pretty scared...but she cares about both sides and is taking charge of everyone's wants and needs.

[Galactus]

It was some nice character work but the book looks like it's trying to write a cheque that Spencer will never be able to cash. Peter going all meta and realising that no matter what major changes happen in his life from different romances, different jobs, owning a company, working with different super hero teams he always ends up single, broke, loner superhero working at the Bugle. Even if Spencer does undo the Mephisto none of that is going to change. One More Day was a symptom of this problem not the cause.

I didn't read the Mary Jane series so I missed why she is working with Mysterio but it seems bad that she seems to know a lot about what is going on with the metaphysical forces manipulating Peter which seems at odds with her in being in love with him. I wonder if at the end of this the Mephisto is null and void only for Peter to reject MJ for not being honest with him.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Galactus

It was some nice character work but the book looks like it's trying to write a cheque that Spencer will never be able to cash. Peter going all meta and realising that no matter what major changes happen in his life from different romances, different jobs, owning a company, working with different super hero teams he always ends up single, broke, loner superhero working at the Bugle. Even if Spencer does undo the Mephisto none of that is going to change. One More Day was a symptom of this problem not the cause.

I didn't read the Mary Jane series so I missed why she is working with Mysterio but it seems bad that she seems to know a lot about what is going on with the metaphysical forces manipulating Peter which seems at odds with her in being in love with him. I wonder if at the end of this the Mephisto is null and void only for Peter to reject MJ for not being honest with him.

I caught this post this morning when you posted it on the CBR Spider-Man forums.

MJ has a lot of faith in her love for Peter, that harkens back to what she told him after making the deal in OMD. She believes their love is strong enough to overcome every secret kept and every obstacle put in their path.

She might be holding Peter in too high a stature, and he'll shock her with his reaction, but at the same time I don't think Spencer will take the opportunity to 'shatter' them, I think he wants to create the illusion that he will, it's a trick Bendis pulled with his Superman comics, he tried to make readers think Lois and Clark were going to split up early on, only to simply make their marriage long-distance and got on with other things.

Spencer is doing the exact same thing with Peter and MJ, creating this tense atmosphere not for Peter Parker, but for the reader, who have been burned so badly by OMD for over fourteen years and do not trust Marvel in the slightest to give them what they want.

[Galactus]

Hi, Revolutionary Jack. I'm fairly unique in Spider-Man fandom as I don't really have strong opinions either way about the relationship with Mary Jane. I like it but I'm not (ahem) married to it and I can see both sides of the argument for the two being wed.

I feel it's a questionable decision for MJ to secretly know about the Mephisto deal but can understand she would keep it to herself after all this time for Peter's own good but if some forces out there are literally messing with Peter's actual soul and she knows about it that's something else entirely. Unless there's a good reason why MJ is keeping quiet about who is messing with the soul of the man she loves it seems manipulative and almost as dubious a creative decision as the Mephisto deal itself. If the ending of all this is that the two get back together I'm sure most fans will be very happy that they'll overlook this but it should be a mark on her character.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Galactus

Hi, Revolutionary Jack.

Oh I'm not Jack (although we're very like-minded), I've been banned from CBR for a while (I was Miles To Go), but I still lurk.

I feel it's a questionable decision for MJ to secretly know about the Mephisto deal but can understand she would keep it to herself after all this time for Peter's own good but if some forces out there are literally messing with Peter's actual soul and she knows about it that's something else entirely. Unless there's a good reason why MJ is keeping quiet about who is messing with the soul of the man she loves it seems manipulative and almost as dubious a creative decision as the Mephisto deal itself. If the ending of all this is that the two get back together I'm sure most fans will be very happy that they'll overlook this but it should be a mark on her character.

It is an interesting wrinkle, I won't argue that, but I can somewhat understand MJ's posistion. She has very much even greater power and responsiblity over not just Peter's life, but also Aunt May's health and the status of reality. Undoing the interference with Peter's soul could reset history and radically alter it in ways that may benefit the Parkers, but can leave everyone else in poorer places.

the argument has always been "you could have told all these Brand New Day stories with the marriage", but what if Marvel had a more distinct answer to this? How about "no, history would have been very different, and here's why"

In being as secretive as she is, MJ is doing her best looking out for everybody, Peter, May, the Marvel Universe that she has had a hand in creating, the reality Aaron's Avengers title is indicating Mephisto has had a big hand in building from the ground up historically.

[ZariusTwo]

"Sinister War" is a four-issue mini series by Nick Spencer and Mark Bagley. set for July. It's Doc Ock's Sinister Six against Vulture's Savage Six

Ock's Sinister Six consists of Ock, Lizard, Hydroman, Sandman and Kraven....and it's hinted Kindred is the sixth member


https://www.gamesradar.com/spider-ma...ter-war-event/

[ZariusTwo]

Amazing Spider-Man: King's Ransom



So it turns out Boomerang had been playing a long con the entire time to secure the lifeline tablet. Fisk had hired him before the Archivist had recruited him. Once Fred had the location of the fragments burned into his brain, Fisk sprung a trap and killed the Archivist, Fred was upset about that. The Archivist however revealed that he put an enchantment spell, meaning only a pure and true hero could secure the fragments....so Fred earned Peter's trust and sprung a trap with the lethal foes once Peter passed the test and retrieved the final part of the tablet.


And if that's not bad enough, his friends tell him they're excuse for dropping by the apartment was to evict him due to constant attack from super villains. Peter thinks it isn't the end of the world, all Fisk wants to do is bring back his wife right? His friends, however, are clearly aware that Fisk has used the tablet to bring back his son Richard Fisk, The Rose is back!

[MikeandRaph87]

The Lifeline tablet, this is the same thing from the Lee arc that introduced SIlvermane right? It later reappeared in a mini-series that had Hammerhead cure his dying sister with Conners help.

Also, I thought Kraven was dead again, is this is clone or a son?

Also, usually the old man sides with Otto so what has the two on opposing sides? Otto on the side of the angels or playing some sinister long game?

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

The Lifeline tablet, this is the same thing from the Lee arc that introduced SIlvermane right?

Yes, the very one.

Also, I thought Kraven was dead again, is this is clone or a son?

Clone 'son'.

Also, usually the old man sides with Otto so what has the two on opposing sides? Otto on the side of the angels or playing some sinister long game?

Vulture has his own team now. Otto is being controlled by Kindred.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Yes, the very one.



Clone 'son'.



Vulture has his own team now. Otto is being controlled by Kindred.

Okay, I knew that he was inhabiting an imperfect Peter Parker clone and had his own series after ASM#800. I was thinking he was playing anti-hero like Eddie Brock. So Harry is using Otto as a puppet?

I thought Fisk wanted to return Vanessa to life, I didn't realize that The Rose was dead.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I thought Fisk wanted to return Vanessa to life, I didn't realize that The Rose was dead.

Vanessa was actually the one who murdered Rose/Richard when she was alive, it happened around Bendis' run on Daredevil almost twenty years ago.