James Cameron working on a new Terminator movie

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Except we really weren't. Most of us were really holding out hope for the movie. Terminator sorely needed a win, not social justice.

Yup. The whole "SJW-Virtue Signaler" excuse that a film or product failed because the "evil people didn't support it" is a manipulation that can be confusing. Instead, the correct direction is that the movie didn't make any significant money, and therefore most reasonable people rejected it.

If only a few haters rejected these flicks, then these flicks would've made a lot more money because the remaining majority would've seen the movie. If the movie failed because of a "loud, whiny" minority, then that isn't actually a minority at all because it would have made money from the remainder of "virtue signaling society". Basically these leftists who are creating a war are also trying to convince you that most rational people are with them, when in fact most rational people are not. Most people don't believe in or engage in racism or sexism, but that doesn't translate to most people siding with these leftist nuts ether on twitter, in Hollywood or in forum spaces.

Pretty soon these same leftist nuts are going to have no recourse but to show their true colors. As the world comes around to "the lie", you'll find the most insane, unreasonable of people who pimped this nonsense in a corner with diminished ranks, screaming out "it's all of you, the whole world! But I've got it right, I'm the only one who sees it! The whole world is wrong".

The people who support this stuff are haters who are angry at their own lives or people who keep themselves on the fringe of society for whatever reason xyz. Get over it like the rest of us did after High School.

[Sumac]

Slightly off topic, but I've read original script for Terminator 3 and I must, if you don't like current T3 be glad OG script wasn't used, because it's a mess.

It starts with John Connor working in computer company and having control over Cyberdyne. Sarah is alive and trains guerrilla warriors in case of Skynet attack.
Two terminators arrive from the future: T800, who crashes rich rapper party on board of his personal ship and T-1G (terminator from sentient matter, i.e. pure energy), who arrives at bowling alley and looks like a woman.

They both seek John Connor, who discovers that Cyberdyne still attempts to create Skynet. T-1G finds John after his fight with his girlfriend Anna and saves him from attack of T800 (she takes on appearance of Anna, after killing her, but tells John that it was T800 who did it). There is a big chase through the highway (think Matrix Realoaded), which ends up in a subway, where T-1G disguised as Anna kick T800 ass into rubble. She informs John, that Skynet will become active in 40 minutes and that only John's own program can stop it.

They arrive at John's office, where he runs his program to kill Skynet, but apparently it only activates it (Skynet needed final push to achieve complete sentience, and John's attempt to destroy it, gave it to Skynet). T-1G tries to kill John, but he is saved by Sarah and T800. Most of the Sarah fighters die in battle with T-1G and then she shots down Boeing 747 on top of our heroes.

John, Sarah and T800 try to escape, but they are captured by government agents. John tells them about terminators and Skynet and T800 rips his face off to show his metal head as a prove. Then he puts his face back down, which immediately heals, since he is an advanced prototype, which can heal his skin almost immediately.

Skynet meanwhile launches nukes at Los Angeles and San-Francisco and disguises himself as lead scientist of the project, to demand its relocation into safe computer center under the mountain. However, later it reveals its true nature to President of US and demands safe relocation or it will launch full scale nuclear attack on the rest of the world.

T-1G once again successfully evaded with the help of hovercrafts. John with the help of government infiltrates compound under mountain, where Skynet resides. T800 sacrifices himself to stop bomb-blast doors from closing, but John revives it, by screaming at it a lot, because, he, Sarah and some soldiers are under attack of T1 (which look like primitive endoskeletons and not like tanks with gatling guns). T800 saves them (and says: I am back).

John uses diggers to get into Skynet core, through the cable tunnels, however, T-1G takes Sarah hostage. John kills Skynet and T-1G kills Sarah. Skynet launches attack on the world, but all missiles are disabled. John uses antigravity engines of the hovercraft (which looks like Aerial Hunter Killer) to partially destroy T-1G structure, which mutates into giant bloated monster. T800 dies as he is trying to stop her and John finally blasts what remained from T-1G with rocket engine.

Overall, this script starts as a decent attempt at Terminator movie and ends up as some C-movie romp. T-1G earns the achievement of being the most broken Terminator unit ever - she can become invisible, invincible, can read thoughts and even bathing in liquid metal does nothing to her.

T800 can regenerate his skin almost immediately and when dying he says that he has a favorite color, which is green, because "it is a color of life".

All in all, there are some good ideas, but most action scenes feel very limited (aside from the first one) and the story is nothing special.

There are only few moments which got into the movie: TX connects to Internet via modem, T800 says "I am back" after being revived and T800 uses gatling gun of one of T1s to kill other T1.

[Leo656]

Jesus, I have never seen a single thing to change my mind that this series was best left as two movies and a handful of comic books.

Pretty sure I'm right and pretty sure that "opinion" ain't ever gonna change.

I do have one friend who insists that even T2 is blasphemy and shouldn't exist, but that's a little bit too "hardcore" for even me.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Jesus, I have never seen a single thing to change my mind that this series was best left as two movies and a handful of comic books.

Pretty sure I'm right and pretty sure that "opinion" ain't ever gonna change.

I do have one friend who insists that even T2 is blasphemy and shouldn't exist, but that's a little bit too "hardcore" for even me.

I think the thing is that T2 could've been an easy misstep - Arnold's excuse to play another "good guy" while his career was at it's peak could've easily churned out an "actor-service" flick.

But the thing was that T2 was a game changer as far as visual effects went and it had it's finger on the pulse of a young generation with John Connor's character.

I remember it, man. It wasn't like today where everything looks great through CGi. Back then, relatively simple things like the airplane explosion in Die Hard 2 was an epic spectacle. So now you have Terminator 2 with all of the explosions, but also a liquid-metal juggernaut that basically couldn't be killed and created during a cultural renaissance in visual effects. People were droppin' jaws in the theater.

[Leo656]

Strong disagreement in how "everything looks great in CGI nowadays." Nothing pulls me out of a movie faster or makes me roll my eyes more, especially how often it's (over) used in places where it's not necessary. "The Dark Knight" technically holds my heart for "best" use of CGI in a semi-modern film because I frankly had no idea they'd used any until I saw the making-of, and its use was incredibly sparse. If you don't notice it, it's "good" CGI. Most CGI is Not Good.

Strong agreement, however, in how revolutionary T2 was in its time, and is honestly one of the very few CGI-heavy films I enjoy. It was absolutely necessary to bring to life the story they were telling but it looked "real" in the context of the film.

If anything, we've slid a few miles backwards since then. "Modern" CGI looks unbearably fake and off-putting because the filmmakers have no restraint.

I think what helped T2 resonate so strongly was the story, though. Obviously it's a visual triumph in every way, but it was a great story. I actually hadn't seen the first Terminator movie yet - you'd be shocked at how many people actually saw T2 first, it's more than you might think - but T2 did a great job in bringing everything up to speed and then moving things forward instead of rehashing what was already done. In my opinion, it improved on the original in every single way possible. "The Terminator", to me, is a good movie, but T2 is a great one.

I feel obligated to say "in my opinion" because I've recently encountered some people, including my one aforementioned friend, who prefer the first film, but... eh, that's a bad opinion, I'm sorry. There's really nothing about the first one that elevates it over the sequel, aside from in fact being The First One. The second one does everything better and does it with gusto.

My one friend's arguments against T2 are that the original was a horror movie and the sequel "betrays" that by being more action-centric - although I still find some scenes to be faithful to the horror tone and style without it being a "horror movie" - and that the story was "finished" and that making a sequel "ruined" that. I kinda get what he means, and at the end of the day people can like whatever they want, but... well, it's a bad opinion and I don't agree with it.

[AquaParade]

I'm so over the use of computer animation in modern blockbusters. Not only do the practical effects look better but I appreciate the creative muscles they force filmmakers to exercise, as well as the restraint and focus.

I appreciate it at times, but it feels like a crutch more often than not these days. Speaking mainly of comic book films and the third act firework display.

[Leo656]

On this we agree.

I just can't help but have a greater admiration on people who physically craft with their hands (and I don't mean with a keyboard or light pen). Even something like the skeleton warriors in "Jason and the Argonauts" still impresses me FAR more than any of the spectacle in say, "Jurassic World" for example. Building sets, creating costumes, hell even using puppets... THAT stuff gets me way more hard than anything nowadays.

CGI simply doesn't feel like "art" or "craftsmanship", to me, no matter how textured or well-done it is. And I don't mean to disrespect those who do that work, and I'm aware that it is still work, it's just... well, it feels like "Movie Making Via Game Genie", to me. Almost like "cheating".

I'm also a huge mark for those "Making Of" shows that used to be all over HBO or whatever when a hot movie came out, and CGI has ruined that completely. I used to love seeing how creative the filmmakers had to be do build this set, or that costume, all the work and blood, sweat and tears that went into it. Now it's like, "We drew some lines on a tablet and clicked a few buttons, and now here's a dinosaur," or whatever. It's just... not the same thing at all. Feels hollow. Soulless.

((Shrug))
--------------

Although if I'm ever more forgiving of it, it's actually the aforementioned "Third Act Fireworks Display" of comic book movies, because... well... that's the entire point of those movies to begin with and the one place it actually makes sense to do that kinda sh*t.

Like a few people tried telling me that Wonder Woman would have been a better film if she didn't fight Ares at the end, and the movie just limped to a resolution with Diana simply having learned a moral lesson about making assumptions. Yeah, because people spent $20 for a ticket to see a $200-million movie that ends not with a climax, but with a "Here's What I Learned Today" PSA. Sometimes you SHOULD have the video game fight. I think it's appropriate in comic book films, but that the other 60-90 minutes of most of these films STILL overdo it in places where they shouldn't, all to justify their gigantic VFX budgets. If anything, it's that which makes the third act video game fight seem less special in some of these movies, the fact that the rest of the movie is ALSO over-stuffed with CGI to the point where it doesn't feel "big" anymore during the "BIG" moments where it should have been saved for in the first place.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Strong disagreement in how "everything looks great in CGI nowadays." Nothing pulls me out of a movie faster or makes me roll my eyes more, especially how often it's (over) used in places where it's not necessary. "The Dark Knight" technically holds my heart for "best" use of CGI in a semi-modern film because I frankly had no idea they'd used any until I saw the making-of, and its use was incredibly sparse. If you don't notice it, it's "good" CGI. Most CGI is Not Good.

Strong agreement, however, in how revolutionary T2 was in its time, and is honestly one of the very few CGI-heavy films I enjoy. It was absolutely necessary to bring to life the story they were telling but it looked "real" in the context of the film.

If anything, we've slid a few miles backwards since then. "Modern" CGI looks unbearably fake and off-putting because the filmmakers have no restraint.

I think what helped T2 resonate so strongly was the story, though. Obviously it's a visual triumph in every way, but it was a great story. I actually hadn't seen the first Terminator movie yet - you'd be shocked at how many people actually saw T2 first, it's more than you might think - but T2 did a great job in bringing everything up to speed and then moving things forward instead of rehashing what was already done. In my opinion, it improved on the original in every single way possible. "The Terminator", to me, is a good movie, but T2 is a great one.

I feel obligated to say "in my opinion" because I've recently encountered some people, including my one aforementioned friend, who prefer the first film, but... eh, that's a bad opinion, I'm sorry. There's really nothing about the first one that elevates it over the sequel, aside from in fact being The First One. The second one does everything better and does it with gusto.

My one friend's arguments against T2 are that the original was a horror movie and the sequel "betrays" that by being more action-centric - although I still find some scenes to be faithful to the horror tone and style without it being a "horror movie" - and that the story was "finished" and that making a sequel "ruined" that. I kinda get what he means, and at the end of the day people can like whatever they want, but... well, it's a bad opinion and I don't agree with it.

My comments above were written quickly..... Yes, there are huge variations in the quality of CGi. What I was really going for wasn't that "everything" looks great and more like "anything can be done" now. And so the real point was that T2 not only looked great, but pushed the limits and that helped the film in an era where an exploding plane was a big deal.

[Leo656]

Well, I kind of inferred that, the rest was just me rambling on as I do.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Well, I kind of inferred that, the rest was just me rambling on as I do.

Dude I'm just up trying to unwind. I was all over God's green Earth today. Exhausted. Like... too tired even to unwind

[Leo656]

I slept all day because I was up all night playing old Sonic games.

Together we might actually form one singular well-balanced individual. In theory.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I slept all day because I was up all night playing old Sonic games.

Together we might actually form one singular well-balanced individual. In theory.

[Andrew NDB]

Hamilton knew killing Connor would piss people off.

https://screenrant.com/terminator-da...-fan-reaction/

[Leo656]

Yeah, I read that, and the stuff with her basically saying she hopes she never gets asked to do another one. Fun.

[Wildcat]

So I still have not seen this yet but I did watch the opening on YouTube since I had it spoiled anyway.

I think the scene is both a bit too easy but realistic. Like I said before it does seem convenient that the hero of the story can be replaced but on the other hand it’s not that ridiculous in this series.

A single terminator showing up without warning and killing the target makes sense and something it should be able to do. The original terminator was able to kill other Sarah Connors. It just picked the wrong ones first...for the sake of the story.

Plus a what-if story about a terminator actually accomplishing this single task is an interesting scenario. Can’t comment on the rest because I haven’t seen it.

[CyberCubed]

At this point every Terminator sequel is in a what if alternate timeline so it doesn’t really matter. In 2025 when we get yet another Terminator movie they will probably have John Conner alive again in reaction to backlash over him dying and so forth. Just too bad I think this will be Arnold’s final Terminator movie.

[D Piddy 1982]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Strong disagreement in how "everything looks great in CGI nowadays." Nothing pulls me out of a movie faster or makes me roll my eyes more, especially how often it's (over) used in places where it's not necessary. "The Dark Knight" technically holds my heart for "best" use of CGI in a semi-modern film because I frankly had no idea they'd used any until I saw the making-of, and its use was incredibly sparse. If you don't notice it, it's "good" CGI. Most CGI is Not Good.

Strong agreement, however, in how revolutionary T2 was in its time, and is honestly one of the very few CGI-heavy films I enjoy. It was absolutely necessary to bring to life the story they were telling but it looked "real" in the context of the film.

If anything, we've slid a few miles backwards since then. "Modern" CGI looks unbearably fake and off-putting because the filmmakers have no restraint.

Just browsing and I agree with you on this 10 fold. I've been banging on for years about how CGI has actually gotten worse (generally) and I think that's due to both laziness and budget.

Although Thanos in Infinity War however does look pretty realistic!

[Leo656]

Yeah, brother.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

At this point every Terminator sequel is in a what if alternate timeline so it doesn’t really matter.

Exactly. "It doesn't matter." No stakes, no reason to get invested. Nothing matters. "I'm sad because ______ died! Oh, wait, nevermind, the next movie will ignore it. I'm happy because the Good Guys won! Oh, wait, next movie they're going to ignore that, too."

If "nothing matters" then there's no point in taking the journey in the first place. I'm not one of those "movies are just background noise" people, I want to suspend disbelief and be invested. And I'm pretty sure that's ultimately what the filmmakers want, too, or they wouldn't spend so much goddamn money on them. But it all goes to sh*t when "nothing matters".

Reboots and retcons should be last resort nonsense ONLY. Learn how to tell a coherent story or get the hell out of the business.

[Sumac]

It can matter if they manage to pull off a good story, but at this point this franchise just run out of trust. So even if they can do this, most people won't care.

[Leo656]

Like, how many Terminator movies in a row can fail, or at least underwhelm, before it's just accepted fact that they ran out of story, and people stopped caring, in 1992?

T3, whenever I catch it, isn't as bad as people say it is but it's no prize either, and if it weren't for the ending, which was incredibly ballsy, it wouldn't be remembered fondly at all, especially with the bad "comedy" sprinkled throughout. It would just be another forgotten sequel without the ending, which legit shocked people in theaters who assumed they were sitting down for another retread, so I give them credit for that but the rest of the movie is "meh". "Salvation", again, whenever I catch it, it's better than I remembered, but it's so forgettable. "Genysis" put 100% of their effort into the visual homages to the first two films, and while they did a great job with that, absolutely everything else is awful. And I haven't seen the new one yet, but I've read enough about it to know that the best stuff is all in the trailers and that the story is nonsense.

This franchise is one Really Good movie, followed by one GREAT movie, followed by FOUR "Oh, wait, I think I DID see that... maybe..." movies. Pull the plug, it's pointless. Things are supposed to BUILD over time, not erode.

Film schools are one day going to use this franchise as a template on what NOT to do, if they already aren't. But to be fair, after T2 there was nowhere to go but down, anyway. Can't be mad at them for trying, but MOST of the decisions they made over the last 20 years were obviously bad from a mile away, so they've got no one but themselves to blame.