[Question] So what keeps the forum going?

[Meow]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Shredder is long gone and Krang only appears once every third blue moon

The turtles fought hard for getting rid of the menaces shredder and krang, so no complaining now please about here being a peaceful place

[Wednesday's Serial]

Originally Posted by Cryomancer

agreed.

i guess i would count as part of the TMNT creative community, and i still do TMNT creative endeavors, but i stopped posting here quite awhile ago. i'll chime in as this seems like a remotely appropriate time for it. this place is pretty dire these days. i read it a few times a week a little bit, just to see how unhinged y'all are about what minor nothing subject this time. sometimes i'll click on a seemingly neutral thread just to see how many posts it takes for something racist or transphobic etc to get posted. often, it's right there in the initial post. y'all have become a bunch of facebook boomer style alt-right weirdos. everything posted here now is culture war ******** and celebrity deaths. why would anyone who's into TMNT even want to post here? have fun, i suppose, you got the place to yourselves now.

TMNT seems like a weird fandom to cause hatred of The Other to me, i dunno what's up with how y'all think anymore. perhaps consider some of the themes of TMNT, like found family and the cycle of revenge. might want to consider some introspection and rethinking of how you came to believe these things you talk about endlessly, maybe who would benefit from you thinking that way. you can still fix your hearts if you want to. do you really see a mutant turtle who has to live as an outcast as someone who would hate on others for what they are? i wouldn't.

i'm sure you will have plenty of wonderful things to say about this post. knock yourselves out.

Seems to still be true. We need the forms to be a place to celebrate and talk TMNT, not bicker about the news.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Wednesday's Serial

Seems to still be true. We need the forms to be a place to celebrate and talk TMNT, not bicker about the news.

Which is why we need more actual good things related to the TMNT, and not stuff that only a shill would love. Like a more bad-ass Mirage-Style theatrical movie that brings a bit more seriousness to the brand the way Tim Burton did in an Adam West era.

I mean, look at the games. Do you see any negative talk or 'culture war' stuff when talking about the Cowabunga Collection or Shredder's Revenge.

When they announced the Last Ronin game, you don't exactly see a lot of people getting mad and saying 'AWW **** NOT A GAME ABOUT THIS ****' or whatnot.

There's also general excitement about whenever a new NECA figure is announced. Or announcing the re-release of the 2K3 series on BluRay and so forth.

Make good stuff, and we're happy. Make bad stuff and we're not. It's not that complicated and it's not that deep.

[Splinter the boss]

Yea the forums is dead lately, I still come and lurk but rarely say anything. For me it's just nostalgia, although I would mostly participate in the TV and movies discussions much more a couple years back. I'm not a social media person. And I'm an old soul, so coming here is somewhat comfortable and feels like home. I do miss how alive it used to be though.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Which is why we need more actual good things related to the TMNT, and not stuff that only a shill would love.

There's a well-received decade+ long ongoing comics series running with monthly supplemental issues coming out alongside it, an ongoing based around the Fred Wolf cartoon, The Last Roninverse which sells like crazy and is hyped up, a successful movie currently in theaters, animated movies and TV series coming out on Paramount+, and sooooo many action figures from NECA, Playmates, etc. Last Ronin game coming, Shredder's Revenge is super popular, the Cowabunga Collection.... There's a lot of Turtles coming out now, more than at almost any other time I can think of in the last 20 years. No one will love everything, but everyone coming to a TMNT forum should love at least some of it, or why come?

[KROW]

Originally Posted by Jeff

There's a well-received decade+ long ongoing comics series running with monthly supplemental issues coming out alongside it, an ongoing based around the Fred Wolf cartoon, The Last Roninverse which sells like crazy and is hyped up, a successful movie currently in theaters, animated movies and TV series coming out on Paramount+, and sooooo many action figures from NECA, Playmates, etc. Last Ronin game coming, Shredder's Revenge is super popular, the Cowabunga Collection.... There's a lot of Turtles coming out now, more than at almost any other time I can think of in the last 20 years. No one will love everything, but everyone coming to a TMNT forum should love at least some of it, or why come?

And you'd think that would be enough. However, as was mentioned before, other social media platforms have taken the bulk of the interest. Message boards were, arguably, the impetus of social media. But, as the tech evolves (or devolves, depending on your perspective), that's where the audience goes.

Also, we need to keep in mind that this place is called, "The Technodrome," referring to the '80s cartoon. As time goes on, the initial fans of that show will be absent due to various life circumstances and if they try to come back during retirement age, will this place still be here? Sure, the forums have had their revivals and renewals with each fresh iteration of the franchise, but will this particular site be a go-to point in the future, given the name it has? Will younger generations be here when searching for places to talk turtles, if Google is gracious enough to list it on the first page?

I think what needs to happen is an overhaul of the forums themselves. Krang needs to come back, mods need to be notified, and sub-forums need to be scrubbed and rules enforced. We don't necessarily need this place to be Ninja Turtles only, but random, rampant threads on certain topics need to be avoided or, at the very least, under severe scrutiny. That would mean highly active moderators like back in the beginning and better screening of members.

If this place is to survive another 20 years (if any), the grit and grime needs to go.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by KROW

We don't necessarily need this place to be Ninja Turtles only, but random, rampant threads on certain topics need to be avoided or, at the very least, under severe scrutiny. That would mean highly active moderators like back in the beginning and better screening of members.

1. Creating less conversation does not create more conversation. If someone leaves the forums because of "conversation they don't like" rather than just going into the Ninja Turtles threads themselves, then the problem is them, not the forums.
2. None of the extraneous conversation has stopped basically any of the Ninja Turtles conversation and therefore does not infringe on the forums but rather enhances it
3. "Screening members" as you seem to have implied it is nothing more than a cancel culture action; outside of eliminating bots which we don't really have a problem with here.

Basically your fixes don't all sound like genuine forum improvements but more like "elimination actions" for things that you might not personally enjoy.

Using words like "Severe scrutiny" on a Ninja Turtles forum only reinforces what people think of this fandom in the first place.

[KROW]

Originally Posted by IMJ

1. Creating less conversation does not create more conversation. If someone leaves the forums because of "conversation they don't like" rather than just going into the Ninja Turtles threads themselves, then the problem is them, not the forums.
2. None of the extraneous conversation has stopped basically any of the Ninja Turtles conversation and therefore does not infringe on the forums but rather enhances it
3. "Screening members" as you seem to have implied it is nothing more than a cancel culture action; outside of eliminating bots which we don't really have a problem with here.

Basically your fixes don't all sound like genuine forum improvements but more like "elimination actions" for things that you might not personally enjoy.

Using words like "Severe scrutiny" on a Ninja Turtles forum only reinforces what people think of this fandom in the first place.

1. No, these forums need to be an environment free of vitriol and spite so that conversation, no matter the capacity, is as healthy as possible. If someone leaves the forums because the conversation has become toxic, the problem is the forums not being modded so the toxicity can be contained or removed.

2. I didn't say that the General Discussion needs to be removed, but scrubbed clean and organized. Krang tried to get rid of them and it didn't go well, so he brought them back with heavy moderator activity and it was fine.

3. My implication of screening members is to make sure banned ones don't return with a new account. Krang did this by checking IP addresses of new members and prevented their return.

The GD forums are great; it's a place to take a break from turtles and talk to other members about outside topics. But if those topics create division and cause insults, then they should be removed and avoided in the future. If these topics are to remain a fixture here, then they need to be under heavy supervision by an active moderator, hence the term, "severe scrutiny." This has worked in the past and it can so now.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by KROW

1. No, these forums need to be an environment free of vitriol and spite so that conversation, no matter the capacity, is as healthy as possible. If someone leaves the forums because the conversation has become toxic, the problem is the forums not being modded so the toxicity can be contained or removed.

2. I didn't say that the General Discussion needs to be removed, but scrubbed clean and organized. Krang tried to get rid of them and it didn't go well, so he brought them back with heavy moderator activity and it was fine.

3. My implication of screening members is to make sure banned ones don't return with a new account. Krang did this by checking IP addresses of new members and prevented their return.

The GD forums are great; it's a place to take a break from turtles and talk to other members about outside topics. But if those topics create division and cause insults, then they should be removed and avoided in the future. If these topics are to remain a fixture here, then they need to be under heavy supervision by an active moderator, hence the term, "severe scrutiny." This has worked in the past and it can so now.

You know, I really liked this follow-up and I am tracking with and understand a lot of what you are saying here - probably most of it actually.

Here is the most confounding issue though - the "toxicity" part. This is easy to say - it rolls off the tongue and it's hard to disagree with because it is a fundamental truth - toxic people and toxic environments are generally bad. Easy mental algebra there.

But here is the problem - the complexity of "toxicity" when measured against weaponized language and manipulation. For example, when people call you an "istaphobe" because you vote for a guy, I would assert the argument that the actual toxic people there are the "istaphobe" flingers. "Toxicity" has largely become nothing more than a pathway to silence people you don't like.

Problem number 2 with the sounds-good-but-is-nonsense-toxicity position - say you have a person who solicits an idea. The idea is pushed back on for whatever reason. That person leaves because the environment is "toxic" by their perception. But their idea which received significant pushback was the impetus for the communication. The person is not equipped for the pushback so instead relies on the "this place is a toxic echo chamber" and leaves. But by your logic, if someone leaves due to toxicity, the problem is the place and need for moderation.

It's a bull$#!( concept. It's a manipulative concept. People didn't like the movie "The Last Jedi". Hollywood marketers and employees didn't own up to it, but relied on shaming tactics calling the fanbase "toxic".

It's a bull$#!( concept weaponized by the evil, the weak and the ill-equipped probably 90% amidst the 10% that might be universally valid.

I just want to point out the depth of our conversation here and note that I'm not saying that you yourself are "evil, weak and ill-equipped" simply for presenting the blanket concept. Instead, I'm saying that people easily fall into the "virtue trap" (Toxicity is BAD!) at almost total disregard for the fact that the truly toxic people are usually the ones who weaponize words like "toxic" and "echo chamber" as a method of control, a method of tantrum-throwing, and a method of social-manipulation-for-vengeance.

[Storm Wolf]

Originally Posted by IMJ

You know, I really liked this follow-up and I am tracking with and understand a lot of what you are saying here - probably most of it actually.

Here is the most confounding issue though - the "toxicity" part. This is easy to say - it rolls off the tongue and it's hard to disagree with because it is a fundamental truth - toxic people and toxic environments are generally bad. Easy mental algebra there.

But here is the problem - the complexity of "toxicity" when measured against weaponized language and manipulation. For example, when people call you an "istaphobe" because you vote for a guy, I would assert the argument that the actual toxic people there are the "istaphobe" flingers. "Toxicity" has largely become nothing more than a pathway to silence people you don't like.

Problem number 2 with the sounds-good-but-is-nonsense-toxicity position - say you have a person who solicits an idea. The idea is pushed back on for whatever reason. That person leaves because the environment is "toxic" by their perception. But their idea which received significant pushback was the impetus for the communication. The person is not equipped for the pushback so instead relies on the "this place is a toxic echo chamber" and leaves. But by your logic, if someone leaves due to toxicity, the problem is the place and need for moderation.

It's a bull$#!( concept. It's a manipulative concept. People didn't like the movie "The Last Jedi". Hollywood marketers and employees didn't own up to it, but relied on shaming tactics calling the fanbase "toxic".

It's a bull$#!( concept weaponized by the evil, the weak and the ill-equipped probably 90% amidst the 10% that might be universally valid.

I just want to point out the depth of our conversation here and note that I'm not saying that you yourself are "evil, weak and ill-equipped" simply for presenting the blanket concept. Instead, I'm saying that people easily fall into the "virtue trap" (Toxicity is BAD!) at almost total disregard for the fact that the truly toxic people are usually the ones who weaponize words like "toxic" and "echo chamber" as a method of control, a method of tantrum-throwing, and a method of social-manipulation-for-vengeance.

Word salad.

Politics have always been dicey subjects. It leads to inappropriate responses at best. People tend to toss aside civilized or constructive conversations for name calling and insults.

Your focus on the word toxic is strange. KROW is from a time before buzz words. I'm certain he isn't referring to it in the same context as you.

The forums had strict rules regarding certain subjects for the very reason of things getting out of hand. They also didn't allow people to continue to participate in incendiary conversations in general. It didn't stifle conversations, it didn't ruin the forums. In fact, most of us were pretty close knit and are life time friends because we could participate without being flamed for our opinions.

I don't think what KROW is proposing is that farfetched, unless you thrive on drama.

[Andrew NDB]

Oh, if only we could completely ban all political discussion of any kind, regardless of there being politics now (from one side) in everything entertainment and that doing so would only make the board a left wing echo chamber, by default. Yes, it would be great to see 2 or 3 people come back and share their thoughts on Mutant Mayhem or the new Mondo figure or something.

I mean, if we want to come to a middle ground where it's "no political threads" but if there is material in a movie or comic or whatever that does happen to veer into the political realm (whether its identity politics or you name it), we are allowed to discuss it and debate, eh, fine. OK, I guess. But the whole idea of sound-minded people out there, ex-Dromers I think we're talking about, people now in their 30s and 40s or above who are honestly sitting there going, "Even the EXISTANCE of these threads on that board in subforums I don't visit makes it a toxic place, so I won't touch it!" is pretty laughable on its face.

[Dpooly84]

It was already said if you're so "triggered" by politics don't enter the conversation. Not everyone agrees on everything and if your not intelligent enough to defend your views, that's on you. Bow out with grace, but the problem is the left can't. They have to state nonsensical statements that prove thier ineptitude to honestly debate facts. Tier 1 thinkers vs tier 2 thinkers.

[KROW]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Oh, if only we could completely ban all political discussion of any kind, regardless of there being politics now (from one side) in everything entertainment and that doing so would only make the board a left wing echo chamber, by default. Yes, it would be great to see 2 or 3 people come back and share their thoughts on Mutant Mayhem or the new Mondo figure or something.

I mean, if we want to come to a middle ground where it's "no political threads" but if there is material in a movie or comic or whatever that does happen to veer into the political realm (whether its identity politics or you name it), we are allowed to discuss it and debate, eh, fine. OK, I guess. But the whole idea of sound-minded people out there, ex-Dromers I think we're talking about, people now in their 30s and 40s or above who are honestly sitting there going, "Even the EXISTANCE of these threads on that board in subforums I don't visit makes it a toxic place, so I won't touch it!" is pretty laughable on its face.

We've had middle ground here before. When they were brought back, political threads were watched carefully so things didn't get out of hand. What appears to be happening now is that they just become a stagnant back-and-forth containing the usual talking points, going off-topic and nothing gets resolved -- an echo chamber of a different sort, if you will. That's akin to what occurs on Twitter/YouTube and it doesn't belong here.

And I understand how topics can bleed into other media, as exhausting as it gets. Talking about it is fine, but when it overtakes the thread it should really stop so the thread can stay focused on its original intent.

My whole point in my initial post here is that we need some level-headed, impartial, active moderators to keep threads on-topic and members civil. If so, then maybe more people will join and the boards can stay online.

[Dpooly84]

Gestapos, you want secrete police huh? Guess who else loved secrete police?

[Storm Wolf]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Oh, if only we could completely ban all political discussion of any kind, regardless of there being politics now (from one side) in everything entertainment and that doing so would only make the board a left wing echo chamber, by default. Yes, it would be great to see 2 or 3 people come back and share their thoughts on Mutant Mayhem or the new Mondo figure or something.

I mean, if we want to come to a middle ground where it's "no political threads" but if there is material in a movie or comic or whatever that does happen to veer into the political realm (whether its identity politics or you name it), we are allowed to discuss it and debate, eh, fine. OK, I guess. But the whole idea of sound-minded people out there, ex-Dromers I think we're talking about, people now in their 30s and 40s or above who are honestly sitting there going, "Even the EXISTANCE of these threads on that board in subforums I don't visit makes it a toxic place, so I won't touch it!" is pretty laughable on its face.

Politics bleeds into everything. Not just specific threads or subforums. The problem with these discussions is often times people can't leave their vitriol or discourse in that place. People who can't be civil will drag that "beef" into other areas of the forum, weather they are left or right leaning.

So the solution may not be to eradicate it, but to moderate it so it doesn't devolve into insult and name calling and cause issues outside of political based topics.

[Storm Wolf]

Originally Posted by Dpooly84

Gestapos, you want secrete police huh? Guess who else loved secrete police?

Here we have the perfect example of how this starts to head downhill even though the rest of us are having a pretty civil conversation despite our clear differences in opinion.

Most have something to contribute, but not everyone knows how to maintain that.

[Zulithe]

Krang's participation is already at the bare minimum so the fact they even keep the server on despite their low engagement is already a big win for everyone, since they could stop at any time. But it's already been here for over 20 years, why not 20 more.

By the way, let's not forget this forum does have SOME ads... so the small amount of ads probably easily pays for the costs, maybe even a lot more than we think.

I hope Krang can get the motivation to move the forum to an updated software at some point, give us some new features to play with.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

regardless of there being politics now (from one side) in everything entertainment

Just a public service reminder:
Film, animation at times, and tv shows (when feeling a bit daring), have had a history of social and political commentary for much of their existence.

You (a general "you," not specifically you Andrew) think they're only just now inserting it these days as some kind of new agenda? Take the blinders off.

Undoubtedly, some of today's viewers have counterparts of the 60s who were just as upset about the first(?) interracial tv kiss in Star Trek and what is was trying to say about that previous era of a continuously changing society. Yet to most that scene now looks like no big deal at all in hindsight.

[Zulithe]

From the first interracial on screen kiss to the first mutant rat on mutant cockroach kiss. How do boomers even cope.

[Dpooly84]

Originally Posted by Zulithe

From the first interracial on screen kiss to the first mutant rat on mutant cockroach kiss. How do boomers even cope.

Racist mutant rat, don't forget he hates people not like himself.