New CGI movie

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Both "Preacher" and "The Boys" completely missed the point of the books and were supreme examples of "In Name Only" adaptations. Screw that. Costumes on point, very little else. Anyone who watches the shows and ignores the comics is a fool; anyone who PREFERS the shows to the comics is a goddamn lunatic. No thanks.

You guys sure have a lot of faith in this guy. Not gonna lie, I cannot f*cking wait to say "I told you so." But hey, Y'all Do You. I'll keep a warm crying towel for ya.

Anyways. Cracked is awful nowadays, but they definitely hit the mark with this article:

https://www.cracked.com/article_2813...ed-laughs.html

1. Nothing wrong with watching the show and not reading the comics. Of course, this doesn't apply to me in the case of Preacher or The Boys, but we've all watched movie adaptions for books we've never read. It's fine.

2. How did The Boys adaption miss the point of the comic? It was pretty faithful and, honestly, Millar's writing in that series can be grating at times. The show was just as good as the comic. I prefer it. It's subjective of course.
Preacher is a different story. I love the comic but a few episodes of the series couldn't draw me in. I can't really speak to it but I heard it annoyed a lot of fans.

3. Wow, that website is unreadable.

Originally Posted by Leo656

Literally the only "news" we've had in years about PD even wanting to do a third movie, reboot or otherwise, was Kevin Eastman saying "I totally swear, you guys!" And... well... c'mon, man, it's Kevin Eastman. The actual producers at PD said "No, we're not doing a third one" before the second one had been in theaters for even a week. Why anyone thought they'd change their minds has always baffled me; studios don't actually like losing money and they took a bath on the second one. Third one was ALWAYS wishful thinking, nothing more. Never even existed on paper. Total smoke.

Actually, they did announce a third movie on camera, last year. One of them sort of whipped it out while the other looked rather annoyed/shocked and replied "oh, I didn't know we were announcing that." It felt like the dude who announced it just wanted to sound busy with projects (lol), but it picked up steam and seemed possible enough.
Anyways, it's a good thing they are gone.

[Leo656]

- Garth Ennis wrote The Boys, not Mark Millar.

- Sorry, I know Cracked's entire format sucks now. Used to be better. The guy's points, however, were solid. It's rare that anyone there even writes a single article that isn't dogsh*t and it just jumped out at me given the entire conversation.

- I could write a book about everything The Boys TV show missed the point of, but I don't feel like it and I didn't see all of it. In brief: Too sanitized, too toothless, too SJW-y, too many things twisted to make almost the opposite points of what the books were trying to say.

Not a bad cast, though. But still not enough to put the show even in the same league as the books, not by a mile.

- There's plenty wrong with watching a TV show or movie and ignoring the written works if you're a person who cares at all about getting "The GOOD Version Of A Story" and not just "Whatever Version Of The Story". I didn't make that rule and it's not my fault it's always true. "Adaptations" are trash by definition. Pabulum for the functionally-illiterate. It's always been that way, but now it's worse because people openly brag about never reading anything. Ignorance breeding more ignorance is all it is, and I don't like it. People should be reading more in general, not bragging about why they don't have to because "I already saw it on TV." That shouldn't be enabled.

- People from Marvel have said "on-camera" that R-Rated Deadpool 3 is also happening, too. Guess what? It's not. I'm not shocked that they lied, but the fact is, in both cases, they lied, to avoid people throwing a tantrum. That's all it is. There was NEVER a PD TMNT 3, not last year, not three years ago, not since PD TMNT 2 tanked. There was just some Fast Talk while they scrambled behind the scenes to try and figure out What Next. Nothing else. People can insist otherwise if they want, and I know plenty of people DO still think there was gonna be a third PD movie, but those people are simply fooling themselves. Some people insist Sasquatch is real, too, in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. It is what it is. I'm not gonna change those people's minds, either, but you can bet that I'm gonna shake my head and laugh at 'em. Sometimes peoples' willful ignorance in defiance of all evidence and common sense is kinda funny.

It's more tragic and annoying, but sometimes kinda funny.

If anything, there was gonna be another full reboot rather than a TMNT 3. That Project somehow morphed into This Project, and now That Project is gone. Very simple.

[AquaParade]

Thanks for the Garth Ennis/Mark Millar fact check. I get their works mixed up because they're both edgy as hell. I'm a fan though.

Regarding adaptions, we all have a movie or series we love that we haven't read the original work for and that's fine. Not everyone should be forced to drill through the Lord of The Rings tomes in order to appreciate the groundbreaking cinematic work. It's a different experience. Some people just prefer one to the other. Not to mention, someone may read plenty in the time they spend not watching The Boys. It's fine to pick and choose what you read and watch, not everything has to go hand in hand and you're not a fool for enjoying something for any reason ever. I mean, i assume there is a larger point you are trying to make but i get hunt up on details like this.

You're overthinking the third PD film however. People believed they were making a third because they said they were. It's fine. Hollywood is AlWAYS on shaky ground. Look at DC and WB. I mean, we can believe something is happening and not be surprised at all when it falls out from under us. Anyone who follows movie development on the internet understands that. Sure, it was all talk. I don't think anyone is actually *shocked* it's not happening. It's just reasonable to assume it was. Hell, many of us....here...were talking about how bad it *was* going to be.

[Leo656]

I sometimes have to double-check which is which, too. We all flub, it happens, I made one today elsewhere, life goes on.

I can mostly distinguish Millar from Ennis because "Millar is the guy who swears he knows Superman better than anyone because he has one of Chris Reeve's authentic capes on his wall, but all of his Superman comic book proposals were absolute trash". He and Ennis have both done some good stuff, I think Ennis is quite a bit better, though. I mean, he definitely puts a lot of himself in his work, and as a huge fan of super-heroes it's a bit odd, at times, to be a fan of his work because at times he's confessed that he outright hates them, hates the entire concept of them, and that a lot of The Boys was merely him speaking from the heart and wagging his finger at the reader, but I can't help it, he's a good writer and his points are fair and well-made even if I don't share his position. Like I love Bad Religion but completely disagree with them politically, I just can't help but love their music because it's well-done. Same thing.

Regarding PD TMNT 3, one of the main producers said out loud, while TMNT 2 was still in theaters, that there wasn't going to be another movie. The guys paying for the series said it wasn't gonna happen, while the second one was still ostensibly in theaters making money. That's always a bad sign. Could they have changed their mind later? Yeah, in theory, but why would they do that? To lose even more money? As I keep saying, I don't exist, nor make my points or positions, on "In Theory". I know lots of people do, but to me that's pretty silly. If I'm going to plant a flag, it's going to be based on factual evidence and not supposition. Again, I know that some people just like to shoot the sh*t", as it were, and entertain possibilities that are highly improbable and unlikely; to me, if I wanna masturbate, I'll watch porn.

If at ANY point in the last three years, anyone in power said "PD is doing another TMNT movie", it was nothing but a stall for time, to keep fans from whining to them about it while they figured out how to work the reboot. We all knew *A* movie would come along eventually, but the idea that PD was gonna do another one, even a reboot, was highly, highly unlikely. And all the supposition and speculation was mostly based on, "Well, everyone signed a three-picture deal", ignoring the fact that Hollywood contracts are printed on toilet paper and are just about as durable. Everyone in "Superman Returns" had a three-picture deal, too; still waiting on THAT one, 15 years later. They never "cancelled" it, it just... didn't happen. Same thing.

As for the topic of adaptations... eh, your opinion, your prerogative, I get your point but don't agree. With LOTR, for example, since you've brought it up, I've only seen the movies, but I've read enough ABOUT the books to understand, even as a relative neophyte, that the movies, while visually and musically stunning and inarguably well-acted, are fundamentally flawed in many ways and don't exactly do a great job of translating the material, with a lot of the substance being exchanged for spectacle. And I get that film is a visual medium and all, but it's unfortunate. I hope to read the books one day, but they're massive so I keep putting it off and I'm frankly not THAT big a fan of the property. But again, even without having read them, the books, I can say, are almost certainly better than the movies, and I say that having enjoyed the movies. But there's far too much "Man, they never should have cut/changed that" and a lot of poor choices made, for me to say the movies are "superior" to the books; they're not better, they're just easier to digest.

You're right that any and every individual has the right to be a philistine, but I in turn exercise my right to call them on it. "Elitist", perhaps, but again, it's entirely Not My Fault that not a single filmed adaptation has ever surpassed the printed works on which it was based. Not one, not ever. And it frankly can never happen. Because film, as a medium, simply has far too many restrictions and limitations to ever do proper justice to the stories they try and "adapt", so even if the person adapting it has their heart in the right place, it's still a shallow, inferior work by definition. Just like "All sequels by definition are inferior films"; some, a rare few, are more entertaining than their predecessors, for one reason or another, but they can't exist on their own without the supportive framework of the previous film(s), therefore, they are "inferior" even if by chance they become more entertaining, simply because they rarely stand on their own.

Movies and TV shows which adapt books and other literature are for people who are either too lazy to read or simply lack the imagination to enjoy a story without having certain things spoon-fed to them, such as what the characters look like or what plot points may otherwise be left to inference. Maybe that's not polite to say, but it is true to say. And if a person genuinely feels they shouldn't or "don't have to" pursue the Better Version of a story, whether it's TMNT or Frankenstein, and they're totally satisfied with a one-dimensional, watered-down, fast food version of that story that entirely strips all of the depth and nuance out of it, then yes, that's entirely their prerogative. But there's a word for those people: "Philistines", and it's by default a negative term because people should want to better themselves even if they don't want to. I didn't invent it, but if the shoe fits, etc.

So again, if people want to be philistines, fine. I can't force anyone to do anything even if it's in their own best interest. But they're not gonna preach to me in ignorance about their right to remain ignorant, and that I'm just a Big Meanie for calling them out on the fact that they're lazy and/or obstinate. They spend more time complaining about "I shouldn't have to read" than it would take them to Just Read. That's a choice. And it's one I don't respect.

Arrogant? Perhaps. Even elitist, if one prefers. But I'll own my arrogance. Ignorance is worse. Way, way, way worse. And any time I hear anyone say, "The movie/TV show was better", well... some people like Big Macs more than Prime Rib, too, that doesn't mean they're not totally wrong and crazy for putting that opinion out loud. And I'll keep calling it like I see it, even if that rubs some people wrong. In the end, I'm still right. People can take it or leave it.

[Andrew NDB]

Never read "Preacher" or "The Boys." But both of those shows were awesome. Far moreso "The Boys."

At the very least, I'm convinced the important people responsible at least read those comics. Not so much for any TMNT project since the sale.

[Leo656]

You really ought'a just read them already. Knowing you as I do - which isn't entirely, but we've spoken often and for a while - I can say you'll probably like them a lot, and most likely even better. I don't know that 100% but it's not a very bold prediction.

I can't force it, but you'd probably be very happy with both of them. I do hear a few people say that The Boys is... an "acceptable" adaptation. By contrast, I've never met anyone who really liked the Preacher comics who had anything but disdain for the TV show. It's one of those "ONLY people who never read the comics love it, and people who read the comics almost universally hate it" kinda shows. I didn't like it at all. Didn't see much but didn't care to.

The only "roadblock" is that they're pretty long series and tracking down the TPBs can be a pain in the ass. But they get away with stuff they could never do on TV, just for starters, but even beyond that, the points that the shows only touch on superficially, are extrapolated upon and given much, much more room to breathe in the books.

Then there's stuff like how they handled Starlight's sexual assault upon her joining the team, which, again, completely changed the story and missed the entire point about WHY certain events happened a certain way and who some of the characters even were by their very nature. I don't really want to get into it here because this isn't the place for it, but that's one thing the show did very, very poorly by and is in itself indicative of how far off the mark they came at the material from. I'm not even saying it's entirely their fault, it's just... you CAN'T film that book faithfully, you really can't. TV and film have too many restrictions, both creatively and in terms of "We're gonna get phone calls". Thus, they can't tell the story "properly" no matter how hard they tried. They're handcuffed. By default, it's an inferior work.

If you like the shows, you'll probably love the books. The books just have So Much More of everything you liked in the show, but better-written and unsanitized. More violence, more graphic content, better-written characters, more sex, more everything, with no creative handcuffs whatsoever. Again, knowing you as I do, I'd be shocked - absolutely shocked - if you read the books and still liked the show better.

Put it like this... "The Boys" TV show is to the comic book, as the 2K3 TMNT cartoon was to Mirage TMNT. They share some of the same stories, but it's COMPLETELY different in how they present that material, mostly because You Can't Do That On Television. So how you feel about that show's approach in adapting "City At War", for example, is exactly how I feel about The Boys TV show. Heart in the right place, but it ain't as good and never could be.

If you do end up reading them and still like the show better, than I'll buy you some nice vodka or something. I just don't see it happening that way. But if you do like the show - and some comics fans do like it - then you really owe it to yourself to check out The Real Version. Even if you don't like it better, you'll almost certainly still like it a lot.

....You will like it better, though. Don't be scared of it, embrace it.

[Andrew NDB]

Actually I did go back and skim quickly over "The Boys," after I super enjoyed the show. I mean, I get it. But it seems like a slightly more 1:1 adaptation of the comics than Mirage TMNT to TMNT 1990, from what I read. Definitely veering off into different ways (as in Danny and Darth Shredder's halfway house of misfit kids) but I was never not engaged.

i.e., the new chick has to blow down the whole group instead of just 1 guy, etc..

[Leo656]

Partly, but there's more stuff as the series goes on. That one thing is a much bigger change than it appears to be on the surface, though. The fact that in the original story she was "coerced, but willing", and the act of degradation so much more graphic, and the fact that she didn't really need much convincing, and it's more like, in the TV show, she's more presented as flat-out Just A Victim. Because lord knows we can't depict a woman making a choice to demean herself to obtain a favorable position, despite that being a thing that happens every day and in fact would be highly topical - albeit "problematic" - to discuss in light of the whole MeToo thing. Having her be a semi-willing participant in the books rather than "just" a victim changes the entire storyline, changes who the characters are, changes everything, even if it doesn't seem like a big change on the surface. It re-frames everything. And then where in the books, she gradually becomes more morally "gray" as her life gets worse and she loses her moral center and becomes more like those around her, with only Hughie as her "rock" to remind her that there are still Good People, the show has her do a full "babyface turn" early on, stripping her character of much of its depth and cutting out huge chunks of her journey in turn. And she's a main character. And as they explained the change, it was merely because it was too "problematic" to present her that way; in 2019 or whatever, the female protagonist CAN'T be flawed and make poor choices and do bad things, she HAS to only do bad things because she was forced to, she has to be more pristine and perfect than that, and that's not at all who that character is. Starlight's a very, very, very flawed character, but for the show they wanted a more "pure" example of a Strong Woman. But that isn't the character.

Everyone in the books is generally a ton more screwed up. Characterization always suffers in live action because there's just no time to get to know the characters in-depth. But it only reinforces my point about which is the superior medium for telling stories.

That's just for starters, though, but since it's one of the first events that happens in either version of the story, it's a pretty good example of, "You can't change One Thing without changing Everything." The show is... easier to digest, maybe, and more suitable for a mass audience. But right there, we're already watering things down. But aside from that, after like the second episode, it's not even the same story as the books anymore, it becomes TOTALLY different. Stuff like Butcher's affair with Rayner is important to the plot, "Couldn't do it, we'd offend people," they said. Nonsense. All the stuff with "Dakota Bob", Red River and the vast government conspiracy, all either thrown out or watered-down into absolutely nothing. It's a goddamn shame, is what it is.

I'll deign that it's probably better than most adaptations at trying to be spiritually faithful, at least. But they openly admitted that they changed certain things because "We didn't want to offend people", and that's entirely contrary to why that book even exists; not that the book was TRYING to offend anyone, but was very unapologetic about "We don't CARE if we offend anyone." Absolutely nothing was off-limits. The TV show has limits. It tries not to offend certain people, or to not go too deeply into certain topics. That right there, in and of itself, totally violates the spirit of the book. It's watered-down. Sanitized. Which is why I say it "misses the point" even if it gets some of the story beats close.

Based on what I saw in Season 1, there's so much different that I already know for a fact that some of the best stuff that happened later on in the books, just isn't gonna happen in the series in any way, shape, or form. Thus, I'm not very interested. I was disappointed with what I saw, checked Wikipedia to see what was coming next, and it's like "Yeah, nah, that's some weak sauce right there."

The show and the book both start off with the premise, "What if super-heroes were real, and they were all scumbags like the guys on Entourage or whatever?" After that, they have, like, nothing in common besides a few character names and the costumes. It's very, very much "2K3 TMNT" vs. "Mirage TMNT". Which isn't to say that 2K3 was awful, or that this show is awful, but they have a very similar, and similarly shallow, approach to their far-superior source material in both cases.

I do like the cast, though. I think people forgive a lot because of the good cast. I just wish a "real" adaptation were possible. As it is... eh. I can just read the books again. Like I said, some of the Best Stuff from later on simply can't even happen, based on Season One, so... I don't care what they come up with. They already lost me.

You simply can't adapt a story that was designed to push boundaries and challenge people, within a medium that is inherently defined by its boundaries and goes out of its way not to challenge anyone. You can't go from "No Limits" to "Here, Some Limits" without changing the entire thing irreparably. Which is exactly what they did. It has its moments, and I won't fault anyone for being entertained by it, but it is, once again, an inferior work by default.

[Technogeek29]

So long as we're not digging up that old corpse the OT I can be a little hopeful and so long as it's not going too far into zanny and different for no reason other than "because" You can pop into the ROTTMNT section to read my feelings on that show.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by Technogeek29

So long as we're not digging up that old corpse the OT I can be a little hopeful and so long as it's not going too far into zanny and different for no reason other than "because" You can pop into the ROTTMNT section to read my feelings on that show.

I rather get the FW universe. But set in 2020 and not the 80s/90s. Remove all the 80s/90s dressing and add the 2020 dressing. I would love to see how these character act in modern times rather then act like there in the 1980s.

[Shark_Blade]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I rather get the FW universe. But set in 2020 and not the 80s/90s. Remove all the 80s/90s dressing and add the 2020 dressing. I would love to see how these character act in modern times rather then act like there in the 1980s.

Sounds good.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I rather get the FW universe. But set in 2020 and not the 80s/90s. Remove all the 80s/90s dressing and add the 2020 dressing. I would love to see how these character act in modern times rather then act like there in the 1980s.

This is pretty much the last thing I'd want

[AquaParade]

Leo regularding adaptions, you've opened up and admitted yourself that you watched LOTR without reading the books. Give other people the same liberty without labeling them as fools. Sure, you "read a lot about" those books, but that ain't the same thing.

You are by no means a philistine if you are someone who chooses to watch a movie instead of read a book. You might be a philistine if you ONLY choose to watch movies but read no books, but if I spend all day studying politics and science, then sit down to watch The Boys, without having read the comics, I'll be damned if someone is going to call me a philistine. In conclusion: reading is good. Read, eat your vegetables. But there should be no prerequisite when it comes to enjoying a movie or tv adaption. It's entertainment.

It should be noted that I agree in the fact that adaptions are typically poorer than the source material. That's why I'm always hoping for more original stories with comicbook adaptions, as opposed to an attempt at recreating something that is special, in large part, because of the strengths of the medium it was created in. Different conversation.

Also, I highly recommend the Preacher comic to everyone. It is raunchy as hell, but it has one of the biggest hearts in all of comics. The last issue always gets me.

[sgtfbomb]

You might be a philistine if you ONLY choose to watch movies but read no books, but if I spend all day studying politics and science, then sit down to watch The Boys, without having read the comics, I'll be damned if someone is going to call me a philistine. In conclusion: reading is good. Read, eat your vegetables. But there should be no prerequisite when it comes to enjoying a movie or tv adaption. It's entertainment.

I very much agree with this. Personally, the notion that "people who disagree with me about movies are intellectually flawed" is a bit daft. Like, if a scientist, doctor, engineer, architect, or psychologist enjoys a movie either better than the book or without reading the book at all, then they are *checks notes* dumb? Come on...

I had a historian friend who enjoyed all those Resident Evil movies, most of which I would classify as genuinely awful, and yet, without flinching, I'd say he's one of the most intelligent friends I have ever had. I'm not trying to downplay knowledge in entertainment. That's been my rabbit hole for 30+ years, that's for sure. All I'm trying to say is there are far more important traits for which we can judge people's character (and intelligence).

[Leo656]

Those are some pretty deep reaches to pull from just to disagree with a broad point, cats.

I've moved labs, I've met tons of scientists. Very few of them sit down to read OR watch "The Killing Joke" or "Watchmen" or whatever after they get done with work. Not the same audience at all, but I do get what you're trying to say.

At some point I really wish people would kind of just accept that I'm judgmental as hell and look down on everyone who isn't me as a general rule. You'll have a lot more fun if you don't fight it.

I do agree that Preacher is amazing and everyone should read it.

[AquaParade]

No, it is way more fun to fight it. You have strong, intelligent stances and are pretty bullish about them in ways which I disagree.
I'm not complaining, it helps keep this place interesting and the discussions dynamic.

[Leo656]

Well that's pretty sweet. Thanks.

.....Do you have any pot? Not... y'know, not "in need", necessarily just... just curious.

I really should've gone to bed. Stupid Instagram.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Well that's pretty sweet. Thanks.

.....Do you have any pot? Not... y'know, not "in need", necessarily just... just curious.

I really should've gone to bed. Stupid Instagram.

Yes, I do .

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by sdp

The movie will be the direction that 2007 TMNT sequel with more jokes was going to be, it'll try to mimic Big Hero 6. It'll have a more cartoony look than say 2007/2012 designs, more pixar esque. It'll be aimed at a much younger audience than Out of the Shadows skewed. It'll be heavily inspired by Fred Wolf. It'll be more successful than the previous two movies.

The quicker you set your mind that this is what the project is going to be, the less disappointment you'll get when you see the designs and trailer eventually 2 years from today.

The eternal optimist I see...... I do agree we should not get our hopes up for a hardcore tent movie aimed at adults.

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I rather get the FW universe. But set in 2020 and not the 80s/90s. Remove all the 80s/90s dressing and add the 2020 dressing. I would love to see how these character act in modern times rather then act like there in the 1980s.

As long as they got rid of the slapstick and had a tone more similar to the first 6 episodes of the original series I would definitely be interested. If its nothing about slapstick and over the top goofiness then I am out.

If this is anything like the 2007 movie, with a better script and villain then I would be all for it. I liked everything about the 2007 movie except the villain and the story surrounding him. I loved the Leo vs Raph sequence. I loved the designs, attitudes and voices for the turtle as well as splinter. Here is hoping!

[PizzaPower1985]

So there's pretty much little to no Mirage influence on this project?

What's the point for TMNT comics fans to see this then?