Why do you think you want the Fred Wolf cartoon back?

[neatoman]

Alright, so the announcement of Shredder's Revenge and the display of the animated intro, has some people... Either thinking this is an example of why the Fred Wolf show should be brought back, or even a little sadder, thinking the game itself is an indicator that it will happen. Of course, the game really only went with the Fred Wolf thing in order to better homage the Konami games, it's seriously doubtful there is anything more in the works.

Now... It's probably never actually going to happen... Sorry. It just makes less sense than you might think it does. The majority of the people who think they want the show back are roughly 40 years old by now (the show itself ended 25 years ago), so understandably such a revival would mainly appeal to them, but the Fred Wolf show was very clearly made for young children back in the late 80's and it's questionable if those particular versions of the ideas would even still work for them. And when you can just make a new cartoon without the baggage of old continuity, wouldn't that be more likely to grab the attention of children?

I'm just gonna break down why every potential version of this idea I can think of wouldn't really work.

First off, and this applies to all versions of this idea, you will not get the same people behind it and even those who may return will be different.
You will most likely never watch an episode written by the same people who wrote the Fred Wolf cartoon, and certainly not by David Wise. Most of the characters would be recast, even if some actors return their voices will be different simply because they're older. You may not think it's a very big deal, but in terms of making it come across like nothing happened, it is. You will know the difference. Just the fact that it wouldn't use traditional cel animation would be enough to throw you off. Now granted, that does mean it wouldn't actually suffer the horrible writing or constant errors the show had, which is a good thing, but would certainly fail to really feel like the same show.

Now then, what about continuity? Would you be satisfied with either an actual sequel or something that is just a reboot that sticks to the status quo of the show?
I don't think you'd like either and be disappointed with both. If it was an actual sequel it would have to adress the Red Sky seasons and adress the changes made there, if ignored it's just going to lead to confusion. At that point it would have to pick between either continuing where the Red Sky seasons left off, or essentially pick and choose what to continue and what not to, at which point you might question why they even bothered? If it's basically just a reboot, then why bother with the slavish copying of the Fred Wolf cartoon? If that happens you are essentially just watching a remake of the old show with maybe better writing and definitely better animation, with maybe a couple of new stories. Of then the writers would also have to limit themselves to an old formula, an old formula they didn't create and might not be comfortable with. And if they are allowed to take the story in whatever direction they want to, then differences will keep piling up and how long will it take before it stops being anything like the Fred Wolf show?

As for the target audience, who should that be? Children or adults?
If it is actual children, it doesn't make much sense to make a show connected to something they might have never seen before. It would be full of references they wouldn't really understand and the exact tastes of children today might differ too much from what they were back then. It is a better idea to simply start over from scratch and test some pilots on a focus group. If the target audience are adults, the show definitely won't be written as the Fred Wolf show. At that point, it would likely try to add some themes and plot points more suitable for adults, which wouldn't necessarily be bad but it would stray quite far from wha the Fred Wolf show was. If these changes go into the more typical directions of adult animation, it would completely change the tone and simply could not be called the Fred Wolf show anymore.

So yeah, I really don't think that whatever they'd make would even remotely be what you have in mind, nor do I think what you have in mind even can be achieved.

If it's a kids show that continues the story from some arbitrary point, that would just be pointless, forgettable wank. You'd likely just forget about it and any kids watching it would be confused.

If it is on the other hand a show that uses the character designs but has an unrelated story, adult themes, a serious tone, lets the writers have total creative freedom and piles up differences over time... Well, that wouldn't have to be bad, it just wouldn't be the Fred Wolf show. It would be a total reboot that just superficially looks like the Fred Wolf show.

[Leo656]

It's arrested development, nothing more.

TMNT for a lot of people represents "a simpler time" that they're nostalgic for. They're so sensitive or traumatized or whatever else by Real Life that they can't handle the fact that some things are better left where they lay, and that it's okay to revisit such things but to completely wallow in a bygone era as if nothing had changed in three decades - including them - is unhealthy. Very, VERY unhealthy.

They also want to have their opinions validated that TMNT really only "works best" when it's Groucho Marx slapstick nonsense. A FW revival would be a repudiation of everything that had come before and since, and secretly, they long for that. That's why they're so insistent that no other version of TMNT ever "worked".

They can't handle (or don't want) complex characters, stories that advance in any meaningful way, or anything resembling actual storytelling. They want safe, predictable ga-ga that wraps everything up neatly with a few thrown pies, a bad joke, roll credits, all in 24 minutes or less. This is what makes them feel comfortable. This is what makes them feel "safe".

All of this stuff is perfectly fine when you're 8 years old, by the way. But people in their 30s and 40s should NOT be willing to settle for pablum. People should be pushing for evolution, not regression.

It's not about "what's best for the brand", no matter how much they insist otherwise. What would truly be best for the brand would be an iteration that says once and for all, "See? It doesn't HAVE to be stupid!" by telling a good story, having characters that weren't one-dimensional, and having an actual sincere appeal to people who weren't either 8 years old physically or mentally. But for these people, it's NOT about "what's best for the TMNT brand." They don't honestly give a sh*t about that. It's about what makes them feel "safe". They want to go back in time to a place where their most soul-crushing disappointment in life was not getting Bebop for Christmas.

I get it, but those people frankly could use a little counseling. And they shouldn't deign to speak disingenuous tripe about "This is what's best for TMNT!" when it's really just about what's best for themselves.

[neatoman]

Yeah, it's a bit weird to see people insist that TMNT "never really worked" after the Fred Wolf cartoon ended. Just in a commercial sense, the second cartoon got over 150 episode and the third got over 120, not quite the same as over 190 but it's certainly nothing to scoff at when 70 episodes is considered an achievement for children's cartoons.

But what I'm wondering is what exactly does anyone who want it actually think "it" is? Another season of the same show or something different that is somehow "close-enough"?

[Jester]

I wouldn't mind a FW revival that took a slightly more serial approach but kept the sense of humor.

But would they be able too without having to recast Bebop, Shredder (well....yeah but not just because Avery's dead), and Splinter due to the modern VA rule of "VA mustn't be of an race other than their own"?

[CyberCubed]

The original TMNT cartoon is basically written as The Simpsons, Spongebob or Pokemon of its day. It's basically a show that can theoretically go on forever, much like the shows I mentioned. It has no overall plot heading toward a conclusion so they can literally pick up where they left off and go from there. As for another reason, there's no real reason. The shows universe has a lot of potential the original cartoon never quite realized due to the limitations of 80's cartoon storytelling, and would be much different now.

Think of Playmates toys mixed with the videogames and a little of the Archie series, if the original cartoon is revived I imagine it'd be like a mix of those rather than being the episodic show it once was.

[IndigoErth]

My first choice would be to not bring it back. It's not that I think it's a dumb idea, but it's basically in the realm of those things that should be left well enough alone. If Nick tried to bring it back it would probably inevitably be a reboot and that just shouldn't be done to it. That's like redoing the first film... Both would be a pretty big sin to commit.

IF we had no choice and Nick was doing it, I'd rather it sort of pick up where it left off and be for both adults and kids, but not little kids. Maybe lose the actual red sky and soften the tone a little so it's not AS serious, but still keep it a good part serious. (Like just a couple/few notches less serious than 2003, more or less.) There's no way they could try to duplicate the humor of an 80s/90s show without it looking forced and fake (or go overboard and make it look stupid), so don't bother.

(Though this show isn't the one I want to pick back up where it left off, that would be 2003... but with the art style and tone of its first seasons.)

Love the show for what it is, but I guess the fact that it had as long of a run as it did doesn't really make me feel like it needs any more. I'd rather move on to something older, well done, and legit serious instead of trying to force an old show into that mold.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Jester

I wouldn't mind a FW revival that took a slightly more serial approach but kept the sense of humor.

But would they be able too without having to recast Bebop, Shredder (well....yeah but not just because Avery's dead), and Splinter due to the modern VA rule of "VA mustn't be of an race other than their own"?

Sensitivity issues? Yes, that would be a concern. Though considering the youngest living member of the main cast is 63 years old, you can expect quite a few recasts regardless.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The original TMNT cartoon is basically written as The Simpsons, Spongebob or Pokemon of its day. It's basically a show that can theoretically go on forever, much like the shows I mentioned. It has no overall plot heading toward a conclusion so they can literally pick up where they left off and go from there. As for another reason, there's no real reason. The shows universe has a lot of potential the original cartoon never quite realized due to the limitations of 80's cartoon storytelling, and would be much different now.

Think of Playmates toys mixed with the videogames and a little of the Archie series, if the original cartoon is revived I imagine it'd be like a mix of those rather than being the episodic show it once was.

The Archie series is a good example of the inherent problem here, how much can you change before it's no longer reasonably close to the Fred Wolf cartoon? The Archie series may have started out adapting the first few episodes, but Bebop, Rocksteady, Krang, the Technodrome and a few other things closely associated with the Fred Wolf cartoon were removed quite swiftly. Instead the comic shifted focus to characters who were rather minor in the show and were given drastically different origins, if they were even in the show at all. The Archie isn't so much an tie-in the Fred Wolf show as it is something completely different with the same starting point.

If we get something that basically starts off adapting the first season of Fred Wolf, is allowed to make changes from the start, is then allowed to do whatever, how long before it stops being like the Fred Wolf cartoon? Here, imagine the Fred Wolf cartoon as it is and then allow these changes into your mind one by one, when does it stop feeling like the Fred Wolf cartoon?:

1. It gets a serialised story.
2. Baxter Stockman never transforms into a fly.
3. Bebop and Rocksteady's roles are reduced.
4. Krang's role is reduced.
5. April stops working for Channel Six.
6. Splinter, Bebop and Rocksteady all started out as animals.
7. The Tang Shen love Triangle replaces the Fred Wolf backstory.
8. The Technodrome is permanently destroyed.
9. Krang's connection to the Utroms is made clear.
10. Original characters who were never in the show appear.
11. Characters from Mirage who never appeared in the show are given prominent roles.
12. Characters from other TMNT incarnations start showing up.
13. Krang, Bebop and Rocksteady are removed.
14. April stops working as a reporter entirely.
15. ... Baxter is black...

I could probably go on but I'm pretty sure most people would say it'd just become a different show with the same character designs somewhere in reading that list.

[Leo656]

I just think people seriously let nostalgia blind them to the reality of things. Theme song aside, and maybe the voice cast, sure, there's nothing so good about the FW cartoon that it couldn't be done better, and most iterations DID do better.

The art style? Most things except the actual Turtles' character designs were okay. The show gave us the best version of April, but it also gave us Turtles who looked like frogs, with their perpetual goofy grins and their stubby little mask tails. I am so, so sick of seeing them drawn that way, when pretty much every other version except for Rise and BayTurtles made them look so much better.

The writing? Absolute dreck. I mean, again, it's plenty good enough for a kids' show, but it was way too much slapstick and between Season 2 and Season 7 there were hardly any stakes at all. It got to the point of ridiculousness with the characters treating the most absurd premises as if they were oh-so-serious, and no, talking to the camera and admitting that something is stupid does not make up for the inherent stupidity. 190 episodes of riding a carousel; you get on, you take a very safe and predictable ride, and get off in the exact same place you started from. Sure, that was the style of the time, but things have changed a lot since then and it's silly to want New Things to go back to that sort of format when you could just as well watch the old thing.

The music and some of the art and animation was good. But the show's biggest flaw is that it's a one-note joke that goes nowhere and it drives me a little bit nuts that so many people would rather have that instead of a show that's actually well-written, with fleshed-out characters and stories that matter.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I don't exactly "want" the Fred Wolf show back in a sense that implies that the original show is incomplete. Despite the show having unresolved plots, it ended on a pretty satisfactory that provides good closure (especially for an episodic series that ran in an era when most cartoons didn't even get proper endings).

The Fred Wolf show can stand on its own two legs as a complete series that can watched and enjoyed in its entirety to this day, and it absolutely doesn't "need" any future piece of tmnt media to validate its existence or continue it's story. With that being said though, I have no objection to seeing the Fred Wolf characters again in some way, shape or form, as has been done in the various crossovers/cameos throughout the years.

[Prowler]

I don't want it back.

The Fred Wolf series was a product of its time and the Turtlemania phenomenon it spawned will never be replicated again.

If they attempted to remake the FW series nowadays it wouldn't have half the success the original did. You can't replicate the past. It doesn't work. And a cartoon series becoming as massive as the FW Toon was in 1988-1992 simply isn't possible nowadays. No American cartoon has been as big, let alone top it, since then. And I'm talking about kids cartoons, no something like The Simpsons or South Park. And even those two are former shells of themselves these days.

I think the only similar phenomenons the world has seen to the Turtlemania phenomenon since then were probably either the DBZ or the Pokémon cases. I'm now talking about properties as a whole and not exclusively about animated series. Those two franchises in their prime were ALL kids talked about for a few years. And, quite frankly, they've proven to have a stronger staying power than TMNT. OK, Pokémon is originally and primarily a videogame series. But Dragon Ball, like the Turtles, was originally a comic that got a very successful animated adaptation and spawned a global phenomenon. And even years after the Anime series was over, it was STILL getting videogames made based on it. DBZ was still a big cash cow way into the 2000s. And eventually it got a remake/new adaptation of the manga called Dragon Ball Z Kai or whatever?

TMNT has failed to stay strong after 1992. The 2k3 and Nick cartoon series both had some success, but they were just simply two additional fish in their respective big lakes. They were by no means juggernauts of their generation. 2k3 is pretty much a forgotten series nowadays. A ton of people to this day still aren't aware it even existed.

So yeah, it's almost like TMNT's success was a one trick pony. I guess that's fitting for a property created by a small independent studio. If anything, it punched way above its weight for a while.

[Leo656]

Yeah, there's so many attempts (across so many franchises) to try and recapture lightning in a bottle, but it never, ever works.

It's natural to want to go back to a simpler, more comfortable time and place, but you really can't go home again. It's one thing to say, "I'd love to go back and wallow in FW nostalgia because that's the only version of the brand I like." Fine. But expecting that all of a sudden just because they draw the Turtles in FW style and make a pizza joke, "TurtleMania" will reignite and TMNT will be a global phenomenon again... that's ridiculous. To WANT that is silly enough, but to EXPECT that? Laughable.

There will never, EVER be another run for TMNT like the one from 1988-1993. It will NEVER be that popular or relevant again if the franchise somehow lasts another 200 years. People need to make peace with that. They should have already a long time ago.

Like, as a He-Man fan am I glad that someone is trying to do a "continuation/revival" of the original MOTU cartoon? Sure, I guess, although I have a ton of serious reservations about that as well (since that "someone" is Kevin Smith). And am I happy that there's something of a resurgence of MOTU going on with the new toy line, another one on the way, and TWO upcoming Netflix shows? Sure, that's nice. But do I actually think the brand is ever gonna be as big as it was from 1983-1987? Absolutely not. Do I even think that's reasonable to expect, or even possible at all either next year or 50 years from now? Absolutely not. Because I'm a realist.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Yeah, there's so many attempts (across so many franchises) to try and recapture lightning in a bottle, but it never, ever works.

It's natural to want to go back to a simpler, more comfortable time and place, but you really can't go home again. It's one thing to say, "I'd love to go back and wallow in FW nostalgia because that's the only version of the brand I like." Fine. But expecting that all of a sudden just because they draw the Turtles in FW style and make a pizza joke, "TurtleMania" will reignite and TMNT will be a global phenomenon again... that's ridiculous. To WANT that is silly enough, but to EXPECT that? Laughable.

There will never, EVER be another run for TMNT like the one from 1988-1993. It will NEVER be that popular or relevant again if the franchise somehow lasts another 200 years. People need to make peace with that. They should have already a long time ago.

Like, as a He-Man fan am I glad that someone is trying to do a "continuation/revival" of the original MOTU cartoon? Sure, I guess, although I have a ton of serious reservations about that as well (since that "someone" is Kevin Smith). And am I happy that there's something of a resurgence of MOTU going on with the new toy line, another one on the way, and TWO upcoming Netflix shows? Sure, that's nice. But do I actually think the brand is ever gonna be as big as it was from 1983-1987? Absolutely not. Do I even think that's reasonable to expect, or even possible at all either next year or 50 years from now? Absolutely not. Because I'm a realist.

Exactly.

And, besides, if people truly want to relive Turtle Mania... well just watch the FW series. Buy the DVDs or something. Or stream it somewhere. Or go buy old TMNT toys and games on ebay. What else can they possibly do? You can't turn the clock back. Time travelling isn't possible yet. You can't be 6 years old again and getting you early on Saturday morning to watch cartoons again. You're not Calvin.

It's really weird how a lot of TMNT fans are so obsessed and attached to their childhood nostalgia to the loin they can't accept anything other than the FW stuff.

[Powder]

A large part of what makes it great is that it is a product of its time, the late 80's/early 90's. & it was further made all the more era-specific when you consider that the majority of its content is paying homage to the 60's sci-fi & 70's kung-fu films its most infamous writer, David Wise, grew up with. The plots were often directly ripped from that kind of media, Twilight Zone, Godzilla, etc. The humor, too, was dated even then, being in tone with clever, sarcastic "funny paper" strips & the like. All of that would be lost in a modern continuation, in favor of shallow, self referential material, 80's homages, & zoomer humor. You'd end up with something that feels more like a halfway point between 2012 & Rise.

Some of the character designs would differ because of iffy likeness-rights issues (note that the '87 TMNT are always depicted as being "style guide" rather than "Fred Wolf"), others would be altered deliberately due to modern socio-political sensibilities. Certain iconic voice actors may be replaced with similar sensitivities kept in mind. Others, like James Avery, have passed on, as have at least two key writers of the series, who knew its voice better than anyone else.

It just plain shouldn't happen. Which, of course, means it will. & everyone will love it, because they don't remember a f*cking thing about the old cartoon anyway & merely want their manbaby ideals catered to by Corporation.

If anything, it could possibly work as a tone-light comic book. But even then, eh. You'd need an absolutely perfect team of artist & writer, which would be hard to find these days. It wouldn't have a reader base, anyway. Those who scream about wanting this back on social media posts don't seem to even read comics, or watch cartoons.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Prowler

It's really weird how a lot of TMNT fans are so obsessed and attached to their childhood nostalgia to the loin they can't accept anything other than the FW stuff.

I haven't spoken to every individual, but in many cases such arrested development is indicative of some kind of trauma. Something bad happened during their formative years which leaves them eternally pining for a bygone era and completely unable to either "grow up" or "move on".

Again, I have no way of knowing that it's that way for each and every person, but I'd put money on it being the case for many.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I haven't spoken to every individual, but in many cases such arrested development is indicative of some kind of trauma. Something bad happened during their formative years which leaves them eternally pining for a bygone era and completely unable to either "grow up" or "move on".

Again, I have no way of knowing that it's that way for each and every person, but I'd put money on it being the case for many.

Yeah probably.

And then there's people who liked the Turtles when they were kids but haven't cared about them since 1993 or so. And when you tell them you still like the Turtles they'll just smile and caught themselves before the words "are you a little kid?" slip their tongue.

Originally Posted by Powder

A large part of what makes it great is that it is a product of its time, the late 80's/early 90's. & it was further made all the more era-specific when you consider that the majority of its content is paying homage to the 60's sci-fi & 70's kung-fu films its most infamous writer, David Wise, grew up with. The plots were often directly ripped from that kind of media, Twilight Zone, Godzilla, etc. The humor, too, was dated even then, being in tone with clever, sarcastic "funny paper" strips & the like. All of that would be lost in a modern continuation, in favor of shallow, self referential material, 80's homages, & zoomer humor. You'd end up with something that feels more like a halfway point between 2012 & Rise.

Some of the character designs would differ because of iffy likeness-rights issues (note that the '87 TMNT are always depicted as being "style guide" rather than "Fred Wolf"), others would be altered deliberately due to modern socio-political sensibilities. Certain iconic voice actors may be replaced with similar sensitivities kept in mind. Others, like James Avery, have passed on, as have at least two key writers of the series, who knew its voice better than anyone else.

It just plain shouldn't happen. Which, of course, means it will. & everyone will love it, because they don't remember a f*cking thing about the old cartoon anyway & merely want their manbaby ideals catered to by Corporation.

If anything, it could possibly work as a tone-light comic book. But even then, eh. You'd need an absolutely perfect team of artist & writer, which would be hard to find these days. It wouldn't have a reader base, anyway. Those who scream about wanting this back on social media posts don't seem to even read comics, or watch cartoons.

Well said.

[Wildcat]

The game intro is pretty awesome.

I’d prefer something else but if they did bring back the FW cartoon I’d have no problem with it. It’d be interesting to see how it goes.

It would most likely only last 3 seasons or so. Highly doubtful this particular universe would get 9 or 10 seasons again.

I don’t have all the DVDs so I don’t remember the later stuff. I’d say just continue from where it left off. It keeps everything intact and they’d have to make a totally new Complete Series set on Blu Ray.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Prowler

It's really weird how a lot of TMNT fans are so obsessed and attached to their childhood nostalgia to the loin they can't accept anything other than the FW stuff.

People have their preferences. I don't know what people see in the 2012 TMNT series but I don't trash or belittle them for it on a regular basis.

I find it weirder that on a fan community that started off as a supersite devoted to the appreciation of the 80s cartoon, you get more and more people either projecting doom on potential revival ideas or outright trolling and trashing it at every opportunity.

Does that make you lot feel special? "Lookit me, I'm an adult now, I've put aside childish things, I want grit and edge, it's what's for dinner". Please.

FW TMNT is good, decent wholesome television, it's very 'boy scout' (a common criticism of post-crisis and post-flashpoint Superman), which rubs edgelords up the wrong way because they reckon everything in this world needs to be more overly complex and 'dark', or 'mature'.

Like Leo indicated in his own cynical fashion, FW is more an escape from the problems of an ever increasingly restrictive and conflicted world. It's zany and camp tone a simplistic way of conveying lessons and adventure to a young mind or a mind who desire less complex things at certain times in their lives. An injection of 'dumb' isn't so bad so long as it's a stepping stone to bigger and better things later that you can do creatively in your own time.

Look at He-Man, it's getting not just a revival of the original series aimed at older audiences, but a new series aimed at a new generation also. There's room for a FW revival aimed at 'growing with the kids' it left behind. Nick can air a new series aimed at the kids, a streaming platform can stream a FW revival for us fans that carries on from red sky or whatever, retains the same tone, and is allowed to evolve it's storytelling without restriction from standards and practices.

Archie TMNT is what FW would resemble more in today's climate I feel, or at the very least should. I know Leo would be down for that.

Everyone can win

Originally Posted by Prowler

Well said.

Anything that takes a pot shot at fanboys labelling their ideals as the mere whims of "man babies" isn't well said at all. It completely undermines the 'point' he's trying to make. It reeks of petty-minded jealousy of the hold the FW cartoon has over it's audience and all of modern pop culture.

Hell, the guy is a Rise shill. That show is ten times worse than any prior TMNT show and is one of the shortest lived TMNT iterations ever. This guy is seriously going to sit there and tell fans like me what's best for the franchise after that debacle?

Originally Posted by Leo656

I haven't spoken to every individual, but in many cases such arrested development is indicative of some kind of trauma. Something bad happened during their formative years which leaves them eternally pining for a bygone era and completely unable to either "grow up" or "move on".

Again, I have no way of knowing that it's that way for each and every person, but I'd put money on it being the case for many.

Why do we have to make this about people's mental health now? Perhaps you feel you're qualified to speak on matters like that because of the rough deals you've been dealt, but I don't think playing armchair psychiatrist and decreeing anyone who desires the return of the FW cartoon is some crazy traumatised child is cool at all.

It's this really underhanded approach to critiquing the FW show and it's fanbase that truly annoys me on here. It's as if none of you can make your point without beating someone up before hand and get your jollies off of it.

Makes one wonder just who are the mentally disturbed ones here.

In this situation, you guys really need to take the L. You're all trying to make yourselves look like you know better than the majority of the audience, when the harsh reality is you're not superior to them, you're out-of-touch. Plain and simple.

Let people enjoy things.

[Leo656]

I just call what I see.

The past is a nice place to visit, but when people insist on living there there's usually a faulty wire somewhere.

In this case... there are other versions of TMNT that are just plain SO much better than FW that I really don't care that "it's popular", the romantic love for it that some people have just forever leaves me shaking my head. To be clear, I "like" it, but I was "over" it in 1992 and I've been rolling my eyes at most of it ever since. It's far too heavily flawed to deserve that level of devotion, let alone a "revival". It's also the biggest reason people collectively think TMNT is stupid, which to me is an unforgivable sin. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

Seriously, it ran figuratively forever. The one-note premise had worn out its welcome halfway through the run, and while well-intentioned, the "Red Sky" revamp was simply too little, too late to save it. It's a 190-episode series that easily could have been half of that. The horse was beaten into a thick, mushy paste by 1995 already. Anybody who needs their FW fix that bad already has over 100 hours of FW they can re-watch anytime they feel like.

It had its run, and it got to be on the air for longer than most shows ever did. Call it a win and move on, says I. People can "enjoy things" all they like, but part of "growing up" is knowing when its time to move on, and let the past BE the past.

After all, "nostalgia" turns into "necrophilia" pretty fast if you swap a few letters around in the middle. And fundamentally, they're not altogether dissimilar. They're both rooted in an inability to let things go and they're both a sign of devotion taken way too far.

Again, I can only call what I see.

[CyberCubed]

Fun fact: The Fred Wolf cartoon now being over 30 years old makes it as old as the 60's Adam West Batman show was when there was 90's nostalgia for it. The passage of time now makes things "retro."

That being said, I'd rather the original cartoon get a movie like Turtles Forever or the other crossovers just with the 80's Turtles (without any of the other ones visiting), and a hour and a half movie about Shredder/Krang making one final attempt with the Technodrome to take over Earth would be ideal. We don't need a full series, but I did always want a full movie set in the old toon universe. As we've seen with the various crossovers we had with Nick and prior, they can easily make it work.

[Leo656]

I actually wouldn't mind an animated movie. But I prefer that it would be one of several TMNT projects of different "flavors" ideally happening around the same time. In no way should FW TMNT once again become "the face of the franchise". That way lies madness.

But an animated one-off could be cool, except for the fact that it would have so many new voice actors that you know people would complain about it anyway.