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Old 04-07-2021, 08:17 PM   #1
neatoman
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Rumor: Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 4 might happen.

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/spide...3795#gs.y8kkrz

Not MCU Spider-Man 4 but a sequel to the Raimi trilogy. Of course this rumor could be totally false, so take it with a pinch of salt.
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Old 04-07-2021, 08:30 PM   #2
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Like Joel Schumacher's unmade "Batman Triumphant" (or whatever the actual title would have been), or Tim Burton's "Superman Lives", every single thing I've ever read about what was planned for Raimi's "Spider-Man 4" makes it sound like it would set new records for F*cking Terrible.

It's all for the best that none of those movies ever got made, and we only romanticize them and convince ourselves that "Hey, MAYBE they would have been good!" simply because we never got them, and sometimes it's nice to dream and play "What If?".

I like Raimi in general, but I'm not a mark. He's not always good and sometimes he's kind of dumb. He had exactly enough good ideas for two Spider-Man movies, and that's all. Spider-Man 3 is rock-solid proof of that. Go read up on some of what Spider-Man 4 would have been, or could have been. There's no justifying some of those ideas. It would have made 3 look better by comparison, but like... nah. Raimi was out of gas.

Obviously any "Spider-Man 4" he would theoretically make "tomorrow" or whenever wouldn't be 1:1 with the movie he would have made a decade-plus ago, but I doubt that he suddenly realized why his bad ideas were indeed Bad.

Also, Tobey already looked like a pudgy, weepy lesbian 10+ years ago and I really, REALLY don't ever want to see him play Spider-Man again. Like Ever. I don't care how popular those movies are, you will never convince me that he wasn't completely terrible and completely miscast. BLECH.
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Old 04-07-2021, 08:34 PM   #3
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Honestly, take out all the origin crap and Amazing Spider-Man already coulda been Spider-Man 4. Have Pete and MJ break up for good and have Gwen be his new girl. They already had Connors in the original trilogy so you have the set up for that. Just idk... explain the re-cast cause Tobey was getting too old, idk.
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Old 04-07-2021, 08:59 PM   #4
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Some of that stuff (like the Lizard) WAS gonna be in Spider-Man 4.

That's how these things work; the studios spend so much money on scripts that they don't throw anything out when stuff goes back to the drawing board. Even when they go Full Reboot, the very first thing they do is see how much of the last script they can cherry-pick.

Notable examples include: Snyder's BvS being made up of elements from about three or four different previously-abandoned BvS and Death of Superman scripts, "Batman Begins" using Scarecrow as the villain because he was already penciled-in for Schumacher's cancelled movie, and now "The Batman" using The Riddler as the villain simply because he was already on-deck for the cancelled Affleck solo movie. Stuff like that.

They always tinker, but the ideas are never 100% "fresh" when they finally hit the screen, everything came from somewhere else first. Scripts cost millions of dollars to commission; there's scriptwriters living in Hollywood who have NEVER had a single movie they wrote get made, but they're multi-millionaires and they make all that money selling scripts, whether they ever get made into movies or not. So when a movie doesn't get made, the studio doesn't throw out the script that they already paid (way too much) for; they just throw it in a drawer, then dig it out when development starts on the next project.

Makes sense, but once you notice it it's one of those things you can't un-see.

There was also gonna be some batsh*t-crazy stuff about Vulture and Black Cat going on in Raimi's Part 4, too. We totally dodged a bullet, no matter what anyone thinks.
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Old 04-07-2021, 09:27 PM   #5
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Yeah...I don't see this happening at all. I'd be okay with it if it was an animated film sequel but I still think the way TASM series ended was unfortunate. They're not my favorite films but that series didn't get the proper closure it deserved.

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"The Batman" using The Riddler as the villain simply because he was already on-deck for the cancelled Affleck solo movie. Stuff like that.
Was Riddler always planned for the Batfleck film? I heard that there was the potential of it being an Arkham adaption.
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Old 04-08-2021, 01:52 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Coola Yagami View Post
Honestly, take out all the origin crap and Amazing Spider-Man already coulda been Spider-Man 4. Have Pete and MJ break up for good and have Gwen be his new girl.
Gwen has always sucked as a love interest (she can't even outshine MJ at her worst in Spider-Man 3, she's just cardboard in that), even Emma Stone's version of the character only gets by on the basis that version borrowed a lot of traits and personality quirks from the Ultimate Comics version of Mary Jane. There is absolutely nothing of value with Gwen, especially compared to someone like Black Cat, who would have been utilised in Spider-Man 4.

Peter and MJ also never 'permanently break', any attempt at such a thing has often proven disastrous for the franchise. I can see it happening with Dunst's version because she is just not that faithful an adaptation of MJ, but it still would have went over like a lead balloon if they tried it. They tried a decade ago to separate them 'for good' and they're presently back together, with the implication they're going to at least address the devil deal that broke them up.

Yes, I know the Spider-Verse movie deals with their divorce a little, but that film is partially framed around Peter realising how badly he needs her back in his life to make sense of his own and they reconcile by the end of it.

Last edited by ZariusTwo; 04-08-2021 at 02:00 AM.
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Old 04-08-2021, 01:59 AM   #7
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I'd say "No way" but it IS Sony.
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Old 04-08-2021, 02:02 AM   #8
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explain the re-cast cause Tobey was getting too old, idk.
Why would they need to recast Toby for being too old? Peter Parker was a graduate and married by the time these movies came out.
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Old 04-08-2021, 02:27 AM   #9
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Yeah, there's no way to reconcile the ASM movies into things. Origin stuff aside... hello, Harry Osborn? Norman's head in a jar, apparently? Plus with the new No Way Home making it clear they're all separate universes... there's no way.
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Old 04-08-2021, 06:52 AM   #10
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Just give San Raimi complete control of the creative direction. Despite the years past by I truly hope it could be pulled off. I have my doubts due to time, but I do wish it to be true. Time will tell and probably not pan out.
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Old 04-08-2021, 07:14 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZariusTwo View Post
Gwen has always sucked as a love interest (she can't even outshine MJ at her worst in Spider-Man 3, she's just cardboard in that), even Emma Stone's version of the character only gets by on the basis that version borrowed a lot of traits and personality quirks from the Ultimate Comics version of Mary Jane. There is absolutely nothing of value with Gwen, especially compared to someone like Black Cat, who would have been utilised in Spider-Man 4.

Peter and MJ also never 'permanently break', any attempt at such a thing has often proven disastrous for the franchise. I can see it happening with Dunst's version because she is just not that faithful an adaptation of MJ, but it still would have went over like a lead balloon if they tried it. They tried a decade ago to separate them 'for good' and they're presently back together, with the implication they're going to at least address the devil deal that broke them up.

Yes, I know the Spider-Verse movie deals with their divorce a little, but that film is partially framed around Peter realising how badly he needs her back in his life to make sense of his own and they reconcile by the end of it.

All of this, forever.
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Old 04-08-2021, 02:54 PM   #12
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Felicia Hardy wouldn't have been Black Cat in Raimi's Spider-Man 4. She'd have been Aidrian Toomes' daughter and be called the Vulturess (or something like that). I can only imagine what bulls**t they would have done with her character.

Raimi was okay with early silver age concepts and even then not always. Like Spider-Man has the best rogues gallery of any comic book other than Batman and he wanted to waste a great one like Mysterio on a one off gag at the start of Spider-Man 4. When it came to adapting modern stuff like Venom he seriously faltered.
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Old 04-08-2021, 03:00 PM   #13
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Like Joel Schumacher's unmade "Batman Triumphant" (or whatever the actual title would have been), or Tim Burton's "Superman Lives"...

It's all for the best that none of those movies ever got made, and we only romanticize them and convince ourselves that "Hey, MAYBE they would have been good!" simply because we never got them, and sometimes it's nice to dream and play "What If?".
I would love for all these things to exist... as comic books. Exclusively one-off comic books.
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Old 04-08-2021, 03:12 PM   #14
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Felicia Hardy wouldn't have been Black Cat in Raimi's Spider-Man 4. She'd have been Aidrian Toomes' daughter and be called the Vulturess (or something like that). I can only imagine what bulls**t they would have done with her character.

Raimi was okay with early silver age concepts and even then not always. Like Spider-Man has the best rogues gallery of any comic book other than Batman and he wanted to waste a great one like Mysterio on a one off gag at the start of Spider-Man 4. When it came to adapting modern stuff like Venom he seriously faltered.
I get what you're saying by calling Venom "modern", It just seems a little weird now. Venom (not counting the symbiote's earlier introduction) was introduced 26 years into the run of Spider-Man comics, and had been around for 19 when when Spider-Man 3 came out. Almost seems odd when the character had been around for almost half of Spider-Man history and has by now been around for more than half.
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Old 04-08-2021, 04:13 PM   #15
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Was Riddler always planned for the Batfleck film? I heard that there was the potential of it being an Arkham adaption.
Yes to Riddler, No for the Arkham thing, that was just fan speculation that was never verified.

More has come out about it recently; Snyder and Joe Manganiello have both spoken about how Deathstroke was scripted as the primary villain of "The Batman" and Riddler would have been the secondary antagonist, planting seeds for his involvement in "Justice League 2". In JL2, Riddler would have cracked the secret of the Anti-Life Equation - "The Ultimate Riddle" - before being killed off. Specifically what he would have done in "The Batman" to foreshadow that, I don't know and I'm not sure how much has been revealed outside of "he was definitely going to be in it as the second Bad Guy". I assume it would have been some sort of conspiratorial shenanigans between Riddler and Deathstroke to make Batman's life miserable.

Suffice to say, the TYPE of Riddler we'll be getting in the new Batman movie is going to be totally different than whatever he would have been in the Affleck version, but the general idea of using Riddler was a holdover from the previous script. Just like the Scarecrow in "Batman Begins" was totally different from what Schumacher would have done, or how the Lizard in "Amazing Spider-Man" wasn't the same as what Raimi was going to do if he'd gotten to do one more; they keep the basic character concept but rework the fine details into whatever the new project is.
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