Official Episode Discussion S2 #19 "The Wrath of Tiger Claw""

**Machias Banshee** · 06-07-2014, 10:08 PM

Hey all,

http://vimeo.com/97382558 <-- if anyone knows how to embed these here on the forums, Please let me know!

Sorry this is last second - life's been nuts.

So, after several weeks of weird stuff of mutants and whatnot, we're finally getting back to the storyline of Karai, shredder and that whole kidnapping - stockholm syndrome type stuff...

Everyone knows now that Karai is Miwa. So... I don't know how things will change now that Karai knows - will she do anything about it, or will she stay glued to Shredder's side as always?

And what the heck happened to Tiger Claw after getting swallowed by one of the nasty Kraang worms back in 'Wormquake'?

Stay tuned!

*Zulithe* · 06-07-2014, 11:32 PM

About 90 minutes till the episode. Who's having very late night pizza?

*ssjup81* · 06-07-2014, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zulithe

About 90 minutes till the episode. Who's having very late night pizza?

How/where will you watch it?

*Zulithe* · 06-08-2014, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssjup81

How/where will you watch it?

The same way I always do... iTunes puts the episode up for download a few minutes after midnight the day the episode airs. Midnight PST that is.

So basically anyone who buys the episode (or season pass) from amazon, itunes or similar digital retailer gets to watch it 11 hours early... assuming you are even awake at midnight

I pick iTunes because you can DOWNLOAD (not just stream) the episode in 1080p resolution. But some people don't like iTunes because it's only available on certain platforms and devices. You have to make the choice that is right for your viewing habits.

*ssjup81* · 06-08-2014, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zulithe

The same way I always do... iTunes puts the episode up for download a few minutes after midnight the day the episode airs. Midnight PST that is.

So basically anyone who buys the episode (or season pass) from amazon, itunes or similar digital retailer gets to watch it 11 hours early... assuming you are even awake at midnight

I pick iTunes because you can DOWNLOAD (not just stream) the episode in 1080p resolution. But some people don't like iTunes because it's only available on certain platforms and devices. You have to make the choice that is right for your viewing habits.

Well, midnight stateside (PST) June 8 would be about 4:00 PM JST, June 8. I guess I could try iTunes. I've rarely ever used iTunes outside of transferring music and videos to my Apple devices...oh and Rob Paulsen podcasts.

Wait, I can use my PC for this of course, right? lol

*Zulithe* · 06-08-2014, 12:30 AM

Sometimes I come off like i'm pimping iTunes, I don't want to seem that way. I think it works perfectly for my needs, that's all.

Like I said, if you prefer amazon video, you can get it there. I don't know the full list of companies that sell the episodes/seasons digitally. So you might want to research that on your own.

If you are in Japan there may be japan-specific sites that sell them. I really don't know.

You asked about if you can use your PC: of course. In the case of iTunes purchases they will work on Mac, Windows, iOS devices, Apple TV...

If you go with amazon you can use Mac, Windows, iOS, Android, Kindle tablets... etc.

*Zulithe* · 06-08-2014, 12:47 AM

well it's a little complicated.

iTunes divides each Season of TMNT into TWO seasons. So the Season 1 and 2 on iTunes are actually "Season 1 part 1" and "Season 1 part 2"

It's less confusing than it sounds.

So the current iTunes Season is Season 4 (aka Season 2 part 2... yes we are near the end of season 2 as you said)

If you purchase a season pass you get access to all the past episodes as well as future. So purchasing a season pass near the end of a season isn't necessarily a bad idea... if you have any intention of re-watching the episodes down the line.

You can purchase on a per-episode basis as well but I have no guarantee that it will go live at the same time it does for Season Pass holders or not.

Also I don't know how region locking and iTunes work and if you'd have any problems watching them in Japan.

*ssjup81* · 06-08-2014, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zulithe

well it's a little complicated.

iTunes divides each Season of TMNT into TWO seasons. So the Season 1 and 2 on iTunes are actually "Season 1 part 1" and "Season 1 part 2"

It's less confusing than it sounds.

So the current iTunes Season is Season 4 (aka Season 2 part 2... yes we are near the end of season 2 as you said)

If you purchase a season pass you get access to all the past episodes as well as future. So purchasing a season pass near the end of a season isn't necessarily a bad idea... if you have any intention of re-watching the episodes down the line.

You can purchase on a per-episode basis as well but I have no guarantee that it will go live at the same time it does for Season Pass holders or not.

Also I don't know how region locking and iTunes work and if you'd have any problems watching them in Japan.

Hm, the ep isn't up yet so maybe I would need to be a season pass holder. The majority of these episodes are rewatchable imo. I also doubt I'll have trouble watching it. Anywho, enjoy.

*Zulithe* · 06-08-2014, 01:13 AM

I am downloading the episode now.

*Zulithe* · 06-08-2014, 01:37 AM

The Wrath of Tiger Claw

Spoilers for the episode to follow. Do you hate spoilers? Well why are you in this thread then.

Karai still has a lot of questions and reservations about Splinter.
Tiger Claw had one heck of an epic adventure to return to Earth! Loved the cutscene.
That's right, BIGGS IS BACK!
Leo wins the pizza gyoza challenge

awesome.
Mikey... don't talk with your mouth full!
Uh-oh... Mikey forgot the leftovers. Huge emergency.
"We have to get to April! ... And Casey, you know, time permitting!"
April, Casey and Irma going to the movies together, cool.
Dang, anytime April wields her fan it just looks awesome.
Mikey moonwalking on the ice.
Oh no Karai... T__T y u do this
"Why'd you have to bring Irma again... she's so nasty" LOL WHAT
Tiger Claw/Turtles/Karai in the meat plant fight was among the very best they have done!
CLIFFHANGER

Awesome ep guys!! I love the more plot-driven episodes like this. It's where the series really shines. I thought the lair had been discovered for a bit, I thought "ohhhh so here is where the turtles are forced to leave the sewers!" But I guess not. At least not yet.

I gotta give it a 9/10

*ssjup81* · 06-08-2014, 02:05 AM

*Cries* I can't watch it and it sounds like such a good ep! I got the ep. I decided to get the season pass but I chose "download later" so I can go straight to the Tiger Claw ep. When i tried to download it, I got an error message saying, "This computer is already associated with an Apple ID. You can download past purchases on this computer with just one Apple ID every 90 days. This computer can be used with a different Apple ID in 53 days". I have no idea why I'm even receiving such a message.

I want to see Irma, April, and Casey hanging together and I really am interested in everything dealing with Karai! Has Irma encountered the Turtles yet?

LH · 06-08-2014, 02:18 AM

The Army of the Kraang..... Whoa....

Triceratons piloting those machines!... and... The creature behind Tiger Claw...

When I first saw him I did a double take... I thought I saw Leatherhead...

Wow... This is a lot to take in.....

Also, did anyone else notice in this episode Casey's T-Phone got a remodel? In "The Manhattan Project" it looked liked the others, and now it looks like an orange iPhone running Donnie's software... Interesting...

and Mikey's shell getting knocked loose... Ouch... as well as that final kitchen battle with the saw and grinder... many intense moments in this episode that made it really great.

*BabyTurtles* · 06-08-2014, 02:27 AM

I loved it!!! XD finally an episode I like alot!

Spoiler:

shredder orokusaki · 06-08-2014, 03:28 AM

Itold Karai the truth and now she is my prisoner!! HAAHAHAHAHAAHAH

Trciceratons are working for Kraang. That seems simialr to IDW where we learn that utroms created them. That creauture behing tiger claw who could be?

MartiusR · 06-08-2014, 03:35 AM

Nice! I've really enjoyed this one, IMHO far far better than a couple of episodes before this short hiatus we had after 18th May.

Spoiler:

Good to see Tiger Claw back, he's really worthy enemy for the turtles. And finally, the major twist with Splinter's daughter has begun. This month seems to be really interesting. Can't wait for the 15th and 29th June!

Spoiler:

RandomtasticFantasy · 06-08-2014, 04:18 AM

Loved it, such an awesome start to an already promising week!

Spoiler:

Great stuff, 9/10. Awesome return after that short break!

*Vicky82* · 06-08-2014, 04:19 AM

Oh My God, Oh My God, the episode was amazing it was epic i'm so hyped up that I need to calm down.

*ssjup81* · 06-08-2014, 05:00 AM

Okay, I was finally able to watch it. I decided to just go to Amazon for now.

Spoiler:

This episode was great! Loved it! I agree with the pacing too. Before I get into actual plot stuff, I'm curious about Irma. Geez Casey! lol "She's so nasty." What in the world does she say or do for him to even think that way of her. Getting into the romance junk slightly, I'm a bit convinced that April really doesn't care for Casey in "that way". There has to be a reason why when doing something casual, she has Irma come along. lol I'm not under the impression that she just tags along to intefere, ya know?

Okay, that silliness out of the way, where do I start. I was trying to get a good look at everything in Dimension X that Tigerclaw had to fight. So I guess it means the Triceratons will be showing up. I'm looking forward to that, as I've never seen them in any visual media, 'cept for the OT and that was for one ep only in one of my all-time favorite Donatello-based eps.

i also liked the Triceratons in the Mirage comics. That aside, I also noticed that part of Tigerclaw's, I think, right ear had a chunk missing. He wasn't like that before, was he? Is this going to be an onrunning gag that everytime he gets into a really serious battle, he's going to lose another part of his body?

Anyway, I loved the fight in the meat...place. That was a great fight! The stealth mode, setting him up, great! Oh and then Karai jumping in to fight and all of them hesitating to fight Tigerclaw.

I was so glad that Karai finally saw the family portrait and realized the truth. IMO, I always wondered why Leo didn't just take the photo and just show it to her himself. I felt that deep down she did feel that it could've been true, hence her asking Shredder about it, but didn't want to believe it. I know she was playing all of them, but a part of me felt that she wasn't fully acting.

After Tigerclaw took her away, I was surprised that Raph was still so doubting. As Leo pointed out, she saved them. She tehnically betrayed Shredder by fighting against Tigerclaw. Why would Raph even remotely think that Shredder would welcome her back with open arms if she fought alongside the enemy? Does he truly think that they set that up on purpose? Tigerclaw had the upperhand before and after Karai intefered. Logically, it doesn't make any sense. I guess it's going to be Raph who's going to object the most over saving Karai. I wonder what Donny and Mikey'll think. I'm so looking forward to the upcoming eps for this reason. I love Leo's situation with Karai.

Oh yeah, I loved Mikey for this episode! He was great! Thank you thank you thank you! He does have braincells! IMO, though this season he's been a bit better with that and in Wormquake I really liked him too. I also love how Mikey explained to the others how Leo had to give Karai time given how she grew up. He's so insightful when it comes to feelings (which is something I do love about him for this incarnation, and practically all others lol). I'm also curious about Mikey's condition. Loose shell? >< Ouch...

Donny was funny about how they had to check on April...oh and Casey if time permitted it. lol I still love the rivalry between him and Casey, but we all know that Donny would never literally let anything bad happen to him. lol Oh yeah, speaking of Casey, I loved how he was like, "If I wasn't about to die, this would be so cool!" lol

Okay, I'll shut up now. Now I must go nuts until the next ep. lol

MiBs · 06-08-2014, 05:05 AM

Just watched it. It was aaaaaaaawesome!! Have to go to a kids birthday in half an hour, so I'll be back later. That last fight scene.....damn

*ssjup81* · 06-08-2014, 05:10 AM

I'm going to watch it again. lol My work be darned. I have a lesson plan due by tomorrow and some essays to grade that's due by Tuesday. Oh well. lol

I just hope the series continues improving Mikey and have him eventually get taken seriously by the others. If it hadn't have been for Mikey, they would've never known about Tigerclaw being after them, wouldn't have found Casey, and wouldn't have fought in the meat packing place. Please show, continue with this side of Mikey. He's not annoying or bothersome when he's like this.

View Poll Results: What have I Done...?!
"You are who you choose to be, not what others make you."	51	53.68%
I didn't come here for honor... shink	0	0%
Finally, Mikey's not a putz!	21	22.11%
Why'd you ahve to bring Irma? She's so nasty...	15	15.79%
Who else caught the movie one-esque music during one of the rooftop transitions?	8	8.42%
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll

06-08-2014, 01:37 AM	#10
Zulithe Ninjutsu Master Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: NorCal Posts: 6,006	The Wrath of Tiger Claw Spoilers for the episode to follow. Do you hate spoilers? Well why are you in this thread then. Karai still has a lot of questions and reservations about Splinter. Tiger Claw had one heck of an epic adventure to return to Earth! Loved the cutscene. That's right, BIGGS IS BACK! Leo wins the pizza gyoza challenge awesome. Mikey... don't talk with your mouth full! Uh-oh... Mikey forgot the leftovers. Huge emergency. "We have to get to April! ... And Casey, you know, time permitting!" April, Casey and Irma going to the movies together, cool. Dang, anytime April wields her fan it just looks awesome. Mikey moonwalking on the ice. Oh no Karai... T__T y u do this "Why'd you have to bring Irma again... she's so nasty" LOL WHAT Tiger Claw/Turtles/Karai in the meat plant fight was among the very best they have done! CLIFFHANGER Awesome ep guys!! I love the more plot-driven episodes like this. It's where the series really shines. I thought the lair had been discovered for a bit, I thought "ohhhh so here is where the turtles are forced to leave the sewers!" But I guess not. At least not yet. I gotta give it a 9/10 Last edited by Zulithe; 06-08-2014 at 01:42 AM.

06-08-2014, 02:18 AM	#12
LH Leatherhead Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 1,705	The Army of the Kraang..... Whoa.... Triceratons piloting those machines!... and... The creature behind Tiger Claw... When I first saw him I did a double take... I thought I saw Leatherhead... Wow... This is a lot to take in..... Also, did anyone else notice in this episode Casey's T-Phone got a remodel? In "The Manhattan Project" it looked liked the others, and now it looks like an orange iPhone running Donnie's software... Interesting... and Mikey's shell getting knocked loose... Ouch... as well as that final kitchen battle with the saw and grinder... many intense moments in this episode that made it really great. Last edited by LH; 06-22-2014 at 06:55 PM.

06-08-2014, 02:27 AM	#13
BabyTurtles Foot Elite Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 4,177	I loved it!!! XD finally an episode I like alot! Spoiler: proud of Mikey!! you hidden smarty you knowing how to find Casey AND having the idea to go to a meat locker!! to fight Tiger Claws __________________ Last edited by BabyTurtles; 06-08-2014 at 02:36 AM.

06-08-2014, 03:28 AM	#14
shredder orokusaki Mad Scientist Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Japan Posts: 1,407	Itold Karai the truth and now she is my prisoner!! HAAHAHAHAHAAHAH Trciceratons are working for Kraang. That seems simialr to IDW where we learn that utroms created them. That creauture behing tiger claw who could be? __________________ I AM THE SHREDDER!!!!!

06-07-2014, 10:08 PM	#1
Machias Banshee Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 17,163	Official Episode Discussion S2 #19 "The Wrath of Tiger Claw"" Hey all, http://vimeo.com/97382558 <-- if anyone knows how to embed these here on the forums, Please let me know! Sorry this is last second - life's been nuts. So, after several weeks of weird stuff of mutants and whatnot, we're finally getting back to the storyline of Karai, shredder and that whole kidnapping - stockholm syndrome type stuff... Everyone knows now that Karai is Miwa. So... I don't know how things will change now that Karai knows - will she do anything about it, or will she stay glued to Shredder's side as always? And what the heck happened to Tiger Claw after getting swallowed by one of the nasty Kraang worms back in 'Wormquake'? Stay tuned!

06-07-2014, 11:32 PM	#2
Zulithe Ninjutsu Master Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: NorCal Posts: 6,006	About 90 minutes till the episode. Who's having very late night pizza?

06-08-2014, 12:30 AM	#6
Zulithe Ninjutsu Master Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: NorCal Posts: 6,006	Sometimes I come off like i'm pimping iTunes, I don't want to seem that way. I think it works perfectly for my needs, that's all. Like I said, if you prefer amazon video, you can get it there. I don't know the full list of companies that sell the episodes/seasons digitally. So you might want to research that on your own. If you are in Japan there may be japan-specific sites that sell them. I really don't know. You asked about if you can use your PC: of course. In the case of iTunes purchases they will work on Mac, Windows, iOS devices, Apple TV... If you go with amazon you can use Mac, Windows, iOS, Android, Kindle tablets... etc.

06-08-2014, 12:47 AM	#7
Zulithe Ninjutsu Master Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: NorCal Posts: 6,006	well it's a little complicated. iTunes divides each Season of TMNT into TWO seasons. So the Season 1 and 2 on iTunes are actually "Season 1 part 1" and "Season 1 part 2" It's less confusing than it sounds. So the current iTunes Season is Season 4 (aka Season 2 part 2... yes we are near the end of season 2 as you said) If you purchase a season pass you get access to all the past episodes as well as future. So purchasing a season pass near the end of a season isn't necessarily a bad idea... if you have any intention of re-watching the episodes down the line. You can purchase on a per-episode basis as well but I have no guarantee that it will go live at the same time it does for Season Pass holders or not. Also I don't know how region locking and iTunes work and if you'd have any problems watching them in Japan.

06-08-2014, 01:13 AM	#9
Zulithe Ninjutsu Master Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: NorCal Posts: 6,006	I am downloading the episode now.

06-08-2014, 02:05 AM	#11
ssjup81 Foot Elite Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Central Virginia (Back in the US) Posts: 4,697	Cries I can't watch it and it sounds like such a good ep! I got the ep. I decided to get the season pass but I chose "download later" so I can go straight to the Tiger Claw ep. When i tried to download it, I got an error message saying, "This computer is already associated with an Apple ID. You can download past purchases on this computer with just one Apple ID every 90 days. This computer can be used with a different Apple ID in 53 days". I have no idea why I'm even receiving such a message. I want to see Irma, April, and Casey hanging together and I really am interested in everything dealing with Karai! Has Irma encountered the Turtles yet?

06-08-2014, 03:35 AM	#15
MartiusR Random Punk Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 47	Nice! I've really enjoyed this one, IMHO far far better than a couple of episodes before this short hiatus we had after 18th May. Spoiler: These sketches were telling the truth! I haven't even expect that SUCH spoiler could seen the light of the day for such a big amount of time before the episode(well, at least that it will be so detailed), but the last scene was excactly and literally the same as it was shown on these sketches, that one of the users linked on forum. Good to see Tiger Claw back, he's really worthy enemy for the turtles. And finally, the major twist with Splinter's daughter has begun. This month seems to be really interesting. Can't wait for the 15th and 29th June! Spoiler: Even if I had some doubts before, after watching this episode I won't be surprised, if in the end Miwa will join to the "green team", but we will see. Last edited by MartiusR; 06-08-2014 at 03:45 AM.

06-08-2014, 04:18 AM	#16
RandomtasticFantasy Random Punk Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 49	Loved it, such an awesome start to an already promising week! Spoiler: -Mikey, why are you so awesome and adorable? Seriously, he was just great this week! I really want to see more of his intelligence and observation skills shine through! -Oh Kairi...I actually feel sorry for her. And Shredder's reaction to her learning the truth made me laugh for some reason, even if I'd seen the storyboard leak before hand. No explanation, no apologies, just "Yep, he's your real dad--PRISON FOR YOU!" Oh Shredder...you extreme person you. -Tiger Claw is just awesome. Rapidly becoming my favorite villain of the show. I can't wait to see the Shedder/Splinter/Tiger Claw fight now. He actually had me worried for the restaurant owner and me urging the guys to find Casey quickly. And when they all had the showdown in the meat locker, I was nervous the entire fight. More so with the circular saw going. I think it's why I love him so much: I actually feel things are at stake when he's in the seen. More so than even the Shredder. -I can't wait to see Irma interact with the turtles. I'm really liking everything about her thus far. And Casey, she's not THAT ugly, ! -Casey in general this episode. Loved a lot of his lines. -Mikey skating. Dunno why, I just loved that scene. -Nice episode to the plot thread I'm liking most thus far. I'll be sad when we get another Kranng driven episode. Great stuff, 9/10. Awesome return after that short break!

06-08-2014, 04:19 AM	#17
Vicky82 Emperor Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dunstable, UK Posts: 5,775	Oh My God, Oh My God, the episode was amazing it was epic i'm so hyped up that I need to calm down.

06-08-2014, 05:00 AM	#18
ssjup81 Foot Elite Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Central Virginia (Back in the US) Posts: 4,697	Okay, I was finally able to watch it. I decided to just go to Amazon for now. Spoiler: This episode was great! Loved it! I agree with the pacing too. Before I get into actual plot stuff, I'm curious about Irma. Geez Casey! lol "She's so nasty." What in the world does she say or do for him to even think that way of her. Getting into the romance junk slightly, I'm a bit convinced that April really doesn't care for Casey in "that way". There has to be a reason why when doing something casual, she has Irma come along. lol I'm not under the impression that she just tags along to intefere, ya know? Okay, that silliness out of the way, where do I start. I was trying to get a good look at everything in Dimension X that Tigerclaw had to fight. So I guess it means the Triceratons will be showing up. I'm looking forward to that, as I've never seen them in any visual media, 'cept for the OT and that was for one ep only in one of my all-time favorite Donatello-based eps. i also liked the Triceratons in the Mirage comics. That aside, I also noticed that part of Tigerclaw's, I think, right ear had a chunk missing. He wasn't like that before, was he? Is this going to be an onrunning gag that everytime he gets into a really serious battle, he's going to lose another part of his body? Anyway, I loved the fight in the meat...place. That was a great fight! The stealth mode, setting him up, great! Oh and then Karai jumping in to fight and all of them hesitating to fight Tigerclaw. I was so glad that Karai finally saw the family portrait and realized the truth. IMO, I always wondered why Leo didn't just take the photo and just show it to her himself. I felt that deep down she did feel that it could've been true, hence her asking Shredder about it, but didn't want to believe it. I know she was playing all of them, but a part of me felt that she wasn't fully acting. After Tigerclaw took her away, I was surprised that Raph was still so doubting. As Leo pointed out, she saved them. She tehnically betrayed Shredder by fighting against Tigerclaw. Why would Raph even remotely think that Shredder would welcome her back with open arms if she fought alongside the enemy? Does he truly think that they set that up on purpose? Tigerclaw had the upperhand before and after Karai intefered. Logically, it doesn't make any sense. I guess it's going to be Raph who's going to object the most over saving Karai. I wonder what Donny and Mikey'll think. I'm so looking forward to the upcoming eps for this reason. I love Leo's situation with Karai. Oh yeah, I loved Mikey for this episode! He was great! Thank you thank you thank you! He does have braincells! IMO, though this season he's been a bit better with that and in Wormquake I really liked him too. I also love how Mikey explained to the others how Leo had to give Karai time given how she grew up. He's so insightful when it comes to feelings (which is something I do love about him for this incarnation, and practically all others lol). I'm also curious about Mikey's condition. Loose shell? >< Ouch... Donny was funny about how they had to check on April...oh and Casey if time permitted it. lol I still love the rivalry between him and Casey, but we all know that Donny would never literally let anything bad happen to him. lol Oh yeah, speaking of Casey, I loved how he was like, "If I wasn't about to die, this would be so cool!" lol Okay, I'll shut up now. Now I must go nuts until the next ep. lol Last edited by ssjup81; 06-08-2014 at 05:06 AM.

06-08-2014, 05:05 AM	#19
MiBs Foot Soldier Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Scandinavia Posts: 212	Just watched it. It was aaaaaaaawesome!! Have to go to a kids birthday in half an hour, so I'll be back later. That last fight scene.....damn Last edited by MiBs; 06-08-2014 at 05:11 AM.

06-08-2014, 05:10 AM	#20
ssjup81 Foot Elite Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Central Virginia (Back in the US) Posts: 4,697	I'm going to watch it again. lol My work be darned. I have a lesson plan due by tomorrow and some essays to grade that's due by Tuesday. Oh well. lol I just hope the series continues improving Mikey and have him eventually get taken seriously by the others. If it hadn't have been for Mikey, they would've never known about Tigerclaw being after them, wouldn't have found Casey, and wouldn't have fought in the meat packing place. Please show, continue with this side of Mikey. He's not annoying or bothersome when he's like this.