The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Trailer

[shuriken]

I enjoyed Kristen Dunst in the first one. Hell My fave is the 2002 Spider-man. But ASM was cool, and I really enjoyed the way they did the Lizard. Looking forward to this.

[ZariusTwo]

Dunst was a good fit, it was the writing that let MJ's character down in those movies. The fact they couldnt get a good angle on her for three whole movies offended me because I'm a massive MJ fan and there are few interpretations that get her right as it is. I can count on one hand just how many actually.

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Dunst was a good fit, it was the writing that let MJ's character down in those movies. The fact they couldnt get a good angle on her for three whole movies offended me because I'm a massive MJ fan and there are few interpretations that get her right as it is. I can count on one hand just how many actually.

I haven't read to many comics, but I agree with the rest. The writing for MJ in the movie was weak and inferior. I enjoyed how they write her in the ultimate comics and TAS from the 90's.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Redeemer

I haven't read to many comics, but I agree with the rest. The writing for MJ in the movie was weak and inferior. I enjoyed how they write her in the ultimate comics and TAS from the 90's.

I quite like the 90s cartoon MJ, though there are parts where I thought she had too much of a 'theatrical voice', I get that MJ is a stage actress in many interpretations, but I don't think she would maintain that kind of dramatic flair in her tone all of the time...plus she never really got a satisfying pay-off in the cartoon, she was left floating in limbo while her clone married Peter and then died, kicking off the final arc of the show and it ended on a cliffhanger with Peter looking for her.

Other versions that get MJ a bit more right in comics and tv:

-MC2/Spider-Girl universe (this basicly has the same continuity as Spidey from 1962 straight to 1999, and then it's own timeline beyond then), Marvel even consider this the "natural" Spider-Man timeline, aka the one where the characters are all allowed to grow up and take on different responsiblities such as raising children, working for the NYPD or being a guidance councelor at a school

-Ultimate Comics, as said, great showcase of her in a different sort of context. Hate what Bendis has done to her since Ultimate Peter died though, she seems to have reverted to a goth chick type who can't get over his loss.

-Spider-Man Newspaper Strip (currently the only comic strip left in the medium where MJ is married to Peter since Spider-Girl folded in 2010)

-Spectacular Spider-Man animated series

[chrisdude]

I wasn't crazy about Dunst. I was really excited to see Shailene Woodley take on the role, but her parts were cut from the film. I see no reason to assume the stars will align for her again, when they go to shoot another movie...

[shuriken]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

I quite like the 90s cartoon MJ, though there are parts where I thought she had too much of a 'theatrical voice', I get that MJ is a stage actress in many interpretations, but I don't think she would maintain that kind of dramatic flair in her tone all of the time...plus she never really got a satisfying pay-off in the cartoon, she was left floating in limbo while her clone married Peter and then died, kicking off the final arc of the show and it ended on a cliffhanger with Peter looking for her.

I'm pretty sure the Beyonder stopped being a Dick for like 2 minutes and reunited MJ and Peter at the end of the series. But Yes that MJ was awesome.

[Anton Chigurh]

I'm pumped that they are showing such interest in Venom this early. But I believe they might go the flash Thompson route instead of Brock since they already introduced the character. I for one want a really sidistic Cassidy/Carnage. Although the rumor mill is saying Gwen Stacey/carnage which would be a change of pace.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Anton Chigurh

I'm pumped that they are showing such interest in Venom this early. But I believe they might go the flash Thompson route instead of Brock since they already introduced the character

I don't think Sony can go that route. Flash as Venom was conceived under Disney ownership, they would have the rights to that take on the character.

They probably could stand to go the Ultimate Carnage route though.

[shuriken]

^^ I suppose they could. But Cletus Kassidy is so sadistic I feel if they get to Carnage not having him in there would be a wasted opportunity.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by shuriken

^^ I suppose they could. But Cletus Kassidy is so sadistic I feel if they get to Carnage not having him in there would be a wasted opportunity.

True, though often I am weary about how far they could go with Cletus while keeping the movie suitable for the kids.

I know, I know, we were kids when we read of Carnage and we turned out fine but you know what parents are like these days, and even the last few Spidey cartoons couldnt make him too badass when he appeared.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

I'm looking forward to this movie. Ive liked all the spiderman movies (well, apart from number 3, kinda like the TMNT movies)

This looks more like a movie that focuses on Spidey rather than Peter this time, so that's something good.

[blindturtle02]

Looking forward to this too. My bh and I enjoyed the first one. Guess I'll have to wait a while for Venom though. Are there still plans to give him a spinoff film? As far as villains go, he's my fav Spidy nemesis. The goblins are alright. Love their arsenals. So who do we got here? Electro, a goblin, anyone else? Difficult to judge from just hearing alone. haha

[Leo656]

Ahhh, Carnage. I still remember when my Dad gave me the issues that introduced him to read when I was like, 9 I think. "This guy's cool, he's like Venom but he kills a lot more people," was something along the lines of his endorsement. Parents trusted their kids to be able to handle a lot more back in the 80s, for sure.

Kirsten Dunst's nipples in the first SM were the absolute highlight of her performance, not just in that movie, but anything she's ever been in. She's terrible.

[blindturtle02]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Ahhh, Carnage. I still remember when my Dad gave me the issues that introduced him to read when I was like, 9 I think. "This guy's cool, he's like Venom but he kills a lot more people," was something along the lines of his endorsement. Parents trusted their kids to be able to handle a lot more back in the 80s, for sure.

Kirsten Dunst's nipples in the first SM were the absolute highlight of her performance, not just in that movie, but anything she's ever been in. She's terrible.

Loved Carnage in the 90's animated series. Wish Spectacular Spider-Man had lasted long enough to feature him. He would have been quite a beast. Yeah, not a big Kirsten Dunst fan. I like MJ in the Spec Spidy animated series though. She was ok in the 90's animated series too. I always thought Spidy should have ended up with Gwen Stasy. Well my bh has done a pretty good job of convincing me of this. She thinks MJ is too much of a drama queen. haha! Never really realized that until she pointed that out. She says Spidy needs a girl who isn't so high maintenance. Neither of us has read the comics but from what we've seen of Gwen in the first movie and Spectacular, we like her pretty well. Although she'll probably kick the bucket at the end of this film! So is MJ a drama queen in the comics or is it just in the trilogy? I guess it depends on the incarnation now concerning comics. So many!

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by blindturtle02

So is MJ a drama queen in the comics or is it just in the trilogy?

As you say, it depends on who's writing her in the comics at the moment. At the best of times, MJ can be Peter's greatest friend, anchor, and confidant, capable of kicking anyone's tail if backed into a corner. Whenever you didnt get a writer that had a good handle on her, she became a drama queen who cried all the time and would tail it when things got too tense. It took a very special kind of writer (like JMS) to fix those problems. These days the mainstream comics MJ is written like a bit of an idiot, I wouldnt recommend reading anything with Slott at the helm where she's concerned. However, in things like the (now defunct) Spider-Girl comics by DeFalco and the ongoing daily newspaper strip by Lee, she's still a pillar of strength and her relationship with Peter is rock solid almost all the time, and is hardly ever a drama queen at all. Ultimate Spider-Man by Bendis also developed MJ pretty well back when Peter was the star of that book.

The MJ you saw in Spectacular represents pretty much the best traits one can find in MJ when she's written competantly, so it's nice to know you liked her in that.

I've never understand why people prefer Gwen to MJ. Gwen started off as a salty ice queen b*tch in the comics during the Lee/Ditko era and her romance with Peter became far too saintly and idealized in the Lee/Romita Snr era to the point that she became stale and boring, plus she was another one of those types who would blame Peter or Spidey for anything that happened to her father, and did act like a drama queen. At least, for all her faults, MJ always knew who Peter was in the comics and understood and respected that side of him as well as the consequences of his actions even if she breifly let it get in the way of her own happiness with him, before ultimately realizing she loved Peter too much and rose above her fears to become his wife and, depending on what canon you prefer to follow, the mother of his children.

Personally, I prefer to think that the real Spider-Man story ended when Spider-Girl was cancelled back in 2010, with Peter and MJ riding off into the sunset raising their kids, and that the current books are just some bad fanfic dream of people trying to maintain Spidey's ever decreasing relevancy in the comics market.

Gwen in the ASM movie pretty much borrows aspects of MJ, including her strength, strength the real Gwen rarely had and that the comics Peter eventually admited to years later, and utlizes very little of the character's comics counterpart...if she ever did, she'd probably wouldnt have made for a very stable character that people could all too easily fawn over.

Did I mention I often do love to bring up the fact Gwen cheated on Peter with Norman Osborn in the comics?

Yeah, aside from that, the only reason anyone remembers her is because she died and that her death signalled the end of the good and wholesome silver age where things were simpler...and Spider-Man's best life lesson to us all is that things never are simple.

[Leo656]

I kinda dig that spin on it. Gwen was long dead by the time I read Spidey, so I had no emotional attachment to her. It was just one of those things. "Krypton blew up. Gwen Stacey died. People moved on." I personally find it hard to mourn someone I never met.

That said, I thought that plot twist with Gwen and Norman was kind of stupid. I mean, it made sense, I guess, but I don't really think they needed to go there. It'd be like having Ma Kent sleep with Lex to save the farm. Sure, in either case the character's been pretty stagnant for a really long time and that adds some depth, I guess, but other than shock value, does it really improve much? I'd argue no, but I'm hardly the authority on Spider-Man.

I always felt like the Gwen Stacey horse was beaten to death before I was even born, and they didn't need to revisit it just for that angle, and they'd have been better served to just leave her in the past entirely rather than piss off the fans she did have. But again, I'm hardly the authority. I've tried to get into Spider-Man lots of times over the years, but it seems whenever I start they do something that's The Worst Ever and I just can't keep doing it. I think the last time I read an entire run was "The Other". And man, did I wish I skipped that.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I kinda dig that spin on it. Gwen was long dead by the time I read Spidey, so I had no emotional attachment to her. It was just one of those things. "Krypton blew up. Gwen Stacey died. People moved on." I personally find it hard to mourn someone I never met.

The first Gwen story I ever read was the one where she died, I didnt go out looking for it, it just sprang on me when I was reading a Spidey annual. In addition to being a massive MJ fan, I was also a huge Betty Brant fan growing up back in the day thanks to VHS collections of the 60s Spidey cartoon and reprints of the Lee/Ditko comics, so at the time I just assumed Gwen was one of those unlucky post-Brant girlfriends that didnt mean much to history before Peter settled down with MJ. It wasnt until later I steadily realized she had been posistioned as Peter's big love interest for much of the 70s, and of course fans constantly harped on and on about her legend, the fans who just wouldnt accept MJ was actually far better suited for Peter and, better yet, had baggage of her own that made her unique and ordinary, where as Gwen was too sweet, an emotionally fickle girl with daddy issues, and completly unendearing to me. MJ was more compelling and easier to root for because she was just as damaged as Peter was, you felt the two could better each other if they were together. The Spider-Girl books are a fantastic continuation and expansion on that aspirition regarding their relationship and it's why I prefer it as the definitive continuation and natural conclusion of the Spider-Man legend, with Spidey 2099 as an unrelated but entertaining epilouge.

I've tried to get into Spider-Man lots of times over the years, but it seems whenever I start they do something that's The Worst Ever and I just can't keep doing it. I think the last time I read an entire run was "The Other". And man, did I wish I skipped that.

Ha, true, JMS's run is air-tight for the first few years, but after "Book of Ezekiel", it really falls off the radar and "The Other" is a massive let-down after all the otherwise brilliant twists and turns leading into it.

I'm one of the few who thought The Clone Saga in the 1990s was an underappreciated golden age for the character and the only time before or since where he was allowed to grow up. I'll always be grateful for it because the stories during that time were creative goldmines. Harry's death, Reily's kicking Venom's butt, Kaine's torment, the Joker-esque Jackal update, Aunt May's death, Spider-Carnage, and Norman's killer comeback. It was a magical time and outside of some breif bits of brilliance like "Dead Man's Hand","Hobgoblin Lives", the early JMS years, "Down Amongst the Dead Men" and "To Have and to Hold", hasnt quite been replicated since.

[blindturtle02]

Thanks for the info Z2. Only now I can't seem to get the Norman Gwen thing out of my head! Oh God, it's stuck there! Yyyyeeeeeah I think I've lost about three quarters respect for comics gwen. Aha and there the rest of it goes. And great to hear that there are more competent versions of MJ floating around out there other than the animated universe. Movie MJ just seemed so vindictive, and all this after highschool. That version would fit very well within the Pretty Little Liars books and tv shows. If they introduce her in these new movies, I hope the relationship between Spidy and MJ isn't as rocky as it was in the last go round of movies. Sure you've got to have a bit of tension mixed in with your romance but it felt like their previous film incarnations had a relationship consisting of only six words.

"No I didn't!"

"Yes you did!" I also seem to recall Peter asking to be punched. That's about it.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by blindturtle02

If they introduce her in these new movies, I hope the relationship between Spidy and MJ isn't as rocky as it was in the last go round of movies.

MJ had been cast and was going to be in this new sequel but they cut all of her scenes so they could emphasise more on Peter and Gwen. From what was leaked out though, it seemed they were going the comics route of introducing MJ as a friend first who gets along with Peter and Gwen, so as to ease audiences in and warm them to her character

[Leo656]

Actually Zarius, I was reading Spidey fairly often right up until the start of the Clone storyline, and honestly that was what made me drop the book. I concede it had potential, but especially knowing that the "true" ending would have been "Peter really was the clone all those years" before editorial got cold feet, I just have a bad taste for it. It's just too much a Vince Russo move. "You know all those Spidey stories you grew up reading? Wasn't him. Total fake. Thanks for your money, though. This here's the REAL Spidey... until we decide otherwise, since now we've set a precedent for mind-f*cking you."

I mean, I know you personally really dig when the status quo gets flipped over (and that's cool, please don't take this as a shot, because it's definitely not... we know each other better by now I think), but I think fan reaction to the angle proved that it wasn't a great idea. Maybe for a "What If...?" or alternate universe - actually, I think that's a great idea for one of those ongoing alternate universe books - but not for mainstream continuity. I've said it often: "Boring" or not, by and large people like the familiar, especially with their escapist entertainment. "Superman Red/Superman Blue" circa 1997, anyone?

Actually, I think both Clone Spidey and Electric Superman are more entertaining to read now, knowing it was just a temporary thing. At the time they were supposed to be permanent changes, and it was just frustrating to read. It's why I'm glad there's no shortage of Elseworlds and What Ifs out there to explore those kooky ideas... we get to have our cake and eat it, too.

Except "Superman: At Earth's End". Don't go near that.