Am I the only one who...

[The Shelf]

I like how when people hear someone's opinion on a touchy subject everyone immediately takes it personally as if the person is telling them how to live their lives. Everyone needs to mellow out a bit. Scandia disagrees with cohabitation and didn't like seeing it in TMNT. Personally, I don't like cohabitation either. We're just voicing opinions; there's no need to attack Scandia for "preaching" (I so hate it when people use that term that way).

In any case, cohabitation may work for a few folks, but it does really screw up a lot of marriages in the long run more than it helps, and I would recommend against it. That said, I really doubt many kids would even realize that Casey and April were living together without being married.

EDIT: Oh, and to answer your question, Scandia. No, you're not the only one. I wouldn't say I'm appalled by it because appalled seems like a pretty strong word, but I do disagree with it. Props to you for risking the ridicule that a few people seem to be giving you.

[Janus Prospero]

Originally Posted by Scandia

And the fact that there is a higher rate of divorce among couples who co-habited than among those who didn't. Whether correlation equals causation that would be another story.

I wouldn't put too much faith in that statistic. It has the inherent bias that people that are against pre-marital cohabitation are more than likely the same people that don't believe in divorce.

So it doesn't take into account people that didn't live together before getting hitched, but are now stuck in an unhappy marriage.

Originally Posted by The Shelf

In any case, cohabitation may work for a few folks, but it does really screw up a lot of marriages in the long run more than it helps, and I would recommend against it.

Really? Pre-marital cohabitation destroys marriages? How? I'm not saying I disagree with you, I just don't see how it would. Perhaps you could give us a few examples?

To me, any marriage that fails probablly had deeper issues than the fact that they lived together a little bit before getting married.

[SassyGal]

It kind of went over my head that they were living together until my friend pointed it out . I'm not offended by it, but I'm not surprised others are. Everybody's different & has their own opinions

[The Shelf]

Originally Posted by Janus Prospero

Really? Pre-marital cohabitation destroys marriages? How? I'm not saying I disagree with you, I just don't see how it would. Perhaps you could give us a few examples?

To me, any marriage that fails probablly had deeper issues than the fact that they lived together a little bit before getting married.

First of all, I never said it destroys marriages. I think there are a lot of things that are involved in actually destroying a marriage. What I do think is that it can stealthily undermine marriages if it goes on too long.

Here's an example as you requested. If you're living with someone for a year or two before you decide to get married, you'll wind up putting yourself in a lot of tempting situations to go a whole lot further than a simple kiss or hug here and there. If you don't fall into that temptation, then great, maybe things will turn out great for you after all; but if you do, then you're setting yourself up for failure. If you start doing all the things that married people do, then you may begin to wonder why you should bother getting married in the first place. After all, it's only a piece of paper, right? You could still do everything else, but why bother going to the trouble to make it legally official? So you go on living together doing married people things without yet getting married, though you still plan to eventually. Now those inevitable deeper issues arise to cause enmity between you two. What will you do? Will you stick it out, or quit? You have a lot less reason to stick it out because you're not even married, remember? If you were married you would feel a lot more conviction to stick it out, but as it stands, you may feel you should just move on to someone new. Now when you go off and get married to someone else a few years down the road, you've already increased your chances of getting a divorce with that person because you've set a precedent in your life of quitting when things get rough. This may sound absurd, but people have an uncanny bad habit of following their own precedents.

This is perhaps the most straight-forward way I can think of that cohabitation can ruin your marriage. It likely won't ruin your marriage to the person you're living with because you probably won't marry that person anyway.

I'm sorry that this post has been so long, but you asked for an example. Maybe that wasn't even a very good example, but the way I see it, most people who live together don't end up getting married. The things they do with that person while they're living with them can come back to bite them down the road when they find someone they truly can love and live with.

But hey, maybe you guys are different. Maybe your experiences are special. If you cohabit, and things turn out great for you years down the road, then congratulations. I personally wouldn't take the risk, though.

[SassyGal]

Can't speak for anyone else, but I cohabited with my hubby only after we got engaged so we always intended on getting married, but I can see where you're coming from. Your example is actually just like my friend's situation.

[Swany]

I have to admit I pondered for a while if they were. It doesnt bother me. I cant really voice opinions on this I guess, (never been in a relationship). But people explore their relationships in different ways, emotionally and physically.

Im not going to "attack" anyone in any way though, there are people who don't beleive in Pre-marital cohabitation. (My own mother, for one)

And people who do (Yup another family member, my older bro and most of his friends)

People are allowed to have their own opinions and belifs on things like this. Can we not just be mature and respect each other?

(I actually had to look "cohabit" up on dictionary.com)

[gobo]

Why has this discussion arisen so late?

[iris]

Originally Posted by gobo

Why has this discussion arisen so late?

It's late? I saw some comments scattered around the boards.

[gobo]

First I'm hearing of anyone being freaked out by this aspect, and the movie has to be playing at less than a hand-full of cinemas anywhere by now (go ahead and prove me wrong... I know you want to). So, I'm just wondering why I hadn't read any such complaints before.

[odupianist]

"Put down the weapons for a minute so we can hitched"
It doesn't work so well.

Scott Summers and Jean Grey any one?

[bullet]

er, two's company too?

[jenna]

Originally Posted by The Shelf

In any case, cohabitation may work for a few folks, but it does really screw up a lot of marriages in the long run more than it helps, and I would recommend against it. That said, I really doubt many kids would even realize that Casey and April were living together without being married.

It's funny you should say that - actually it's not the first time I've heard that. When I got married we had to have 'lessons' with the priest who performed our ceromony and he said that a larger % of those whose marriages fell apart had cohabited than those who didn't - I think it's a really interesting statistic. His reasoning was that when people first move in together it's like "playing house" and when the going gets tough the couple are not equipped to deal with it. I'm not sure I agree with that, I lived with my hubby for 18 months before we got married and then we've been married for 2 years, so our marriage is still young, but I lived away from home since I was 11 years old, so I don't think I was "playing house" at all!

I'm certainly not taking Scandia's words to be preachy - far from it, but I am interested in his / her objection (sorry, Scandia - I forgot to check if you were a he or a she). I have never followed convention so I am interested to hear that point of view.

[bullet]

i personally think a lot of numbers and figures propagated by the church are fabricated. i went to a religious school for a period of my life and it seemed that instructors and religious authorities often produced statistics without citing references...and some of those stats i found later to be totally false.

not sayin this particular figure is false, just puttin in my .02.

[iris]

Originally Posted by gobo

First I'm hearing of anyone being freaked out by this aspect, and the movie has to be playing at less than a hand-full of cinemas anywhere by now (go ahead and prove me wrong... I know you want to). So, I'm just wondering why I hadn't read any such complaints before.

Maybe nobody's spoken up so loudly because the Drome is teeming with heathenistic pre-epithalamic troglodytes skulking around in wait of delicious n00b innocents to rip asunder in sacrifical frenzies on our altar to the demon beast.

Or maybe most uberfans here already knew about April and Casey's living sitation. But I like the first reason better.

Originally Posted by gobo

go ahead and prove me wrong... I know you want to

[Janus Prospero]

Originally Posted by The Shelf

Here's an example as you requested. If you're living with someone for a year or two before you decide to get married, you'll wind up putting yourself in a lot of tempting situations to go a whole lot further than a simple kiss or hug here and there. If you don't fall into that temptation, then great, maybe things will turn out great for you after all; but if you do, then you're setting yourself up for failure. If you start doing all the things that married people do, then you may begin to wonder why you should bother getting married in the first place. After all, it's only a piece of paper, right? You could still do everything else, but why bother going to the trouble to make it legally official? So you go on living together doing married people things without yet getting married, though you still plan to eventually. Now those inevitable deeper issues arise to cause enmity between you two. What will you do? Will you stick it out, or quit? You have a lot less reason to stick it out because you're not even married, remember? If you were married you would feel a lot more conviction to stick it out, but as it stands, you may feel you should just move on to someone new. Now when you go off and get married to someone else a few years down the road, you've already increased your chances of getting a divorce with that person because you've set a precedent in your life of quitting when things get rough. This may sound absurd, but people have an uncanny bad habit of following their own precedents.

This is perhaps the most straight-forward way I can think of that cohabitation can ruin your marriage. It likely won't ruin your marriage to the person you're living with because you probably won't marry that person anyway.

I'm sorry that this post has been so long, but you asked for an example. Maybe that wasn't even a very good example, but the way I see it, most people who live together don't end up getting married. The things they do with that person while they're living with them can come back to bite them down the road when they find someone they truly can love and live with.

No, that's a good example. I think you make some good points, but it also raises some other related moral issues such as premarital sex and choosing not to get married altogether. We won't get into that, but if those two issues were ok with someone than the issues you mention can occur from cohabitation are kind of moot. I also think that the issues you describe arise from the individual's own lack of willpower as opposed to the situation itself.

In my mind I would only want to live with someone that I intended to marry anyway, and I have. I did not take moving in with someone lightly and therefore the person I live with is someone that I have a strong emotional and spiritual connection with. So, if times became tough and enmity grew between us, this isn't someone I would just consider running out on because it was easier.

I think it's a much wiser idea to make sure you can handle each other under the same roof before 100% committing. Things may not work out, but if you do get married to that person, aren't you that much more secure in the marriage because you know what living with the person will be like?

Besides, would you really want to stay with someone whose only reason for not leaving you is because you're married? That's terrible. I want someone to be with me because they love me, not because they feel they have some obligation to.

[jenna]

Originally Posted by bullet

i personally think a lot of numbers and figures propagated by the church are fabricated. i went to a religious school for a period of my life and it seemed that instructors and religious authorities often produced statistics without citing references...and some of those stats i found later to be totally false.

not sayin this particular figure is false, just puttin in my .02.

Totally agree with you, but that is a whole other debate

The priest in question gave no reference for his figure - I think he wanted to guage whether or not we had been.... doing more than just living together.... (got to put it delicately, right?).

I think the grin on my face made him back off. I'm pretty sure he thinks I'm an evil temptress (he was a friend of my hubby, who was an altar boy, then I came along and they kind of... fell out!)

[SassyGal]

Originally Posted by jenna

It's funny you should say that - actually it's not the first time I've heard that. When I got married we had to have 'lessons' with the priest who performed our ceromony and he said that a larger % of those whose marriages fell apart had cohabited than those who didn't

We had to do classes like that & I think everyone in the group session was trying not to laugh We also got that whole "playing house" comment and we both laugh today about that...the priest was trying to tell us that all our marriages were doomed if we live together, but 9 married years later, we still like playing house

Back to topic...as I said before, it went over my head they were living together & I think most kids will miss it as well simply because it wasn't made a big deal of...if it was more porno, then I would object

[The Shelf]

Originally Posted by Janus Prospero

No, that's a good example. I think you make some good points, but it also raises some other related moral issues such as premarital sex and choosing not to get married altogether. We won't get into that, but if those two issues were ok with someone than the issues you mention can occur from cohabitation are kind of moot. I also think that the issues you describe arise from the individual's own lack of willpower as opposed to the situation itself.

Morals and religion aren't the only reason why it's bad. If you don't end up sticking with that person for the rest of your life, then you've just spoiled something that's supposed to be especially for the person you do stick with. And, yes, I agree that lack of willpower is the primary cause that can be attributed to these sorts of issues, but unfortunately, most people don't have that strength of willpower. So why put yourself under that kind of temptation, unless as you said, you're willing to take the risks.

Originally Posted by Janus Prospero

In my mind I would only want to live with someone that I intended to marry anyway, and I have. I did not take moving in with someone lightly and therefore the person I live with is someone that I have a strong emotional and spiritual connection with. So, if times became tough and enmity grew between us, this isn't someone I would just consider running out on because it was easier.

Unfortunately, not everyone shares that kind of commitment to someone that they're not legally bound to.

Originally Posted by Janus Prospero

I think it's a much wiser idea to make sure you can handle each other under the same roof before 100% committing. Things may not work out, but if you do get married to that person, aren't you that much more secure in the marriage because you know what living with the person will be like?

Besides, would you really want to stay with someone whose only reason for not leaving you is because you're married? That's terrible. I want someone to be with me because they love me, not because they feel they have some obligation to.

I agree, but I don't think it's necessary to live with each other in order to determine whether you can handle each other. Besides, if you marry someone after knowing them for years and later you want to leave them just because you can't bear their little bad habits (which is the only knowledge you stand to gain from living with them) then perhaps you were loving them for the wrong reasons to begin with? I guess that's ultimately my point: the only thing you gain out of living with someone that you can't gain without living with them is discovering what their living habits are. So I don't think your argument about knowing whether or not someone loves you before you get married has anything to do with living with them beforehand. And if you really do love someone, then you're not going to care what their living habits are like. So what do you stand to gain by living together before you get married? No matter which way I look at it, the costs outweigh the benefits, even excluding my own moral and religious beliefs.

[Mandi-chan]

Is APPALLED at the fact that in the movie, April and Casey are cohabiting?

I never knew that a couple living together before getting married was an issue, that never crossed my mind.

What's wrong with it?

[iris]

Originally Posted by The Shelf

Morals and religion aren't the only reason why it's bad. If you don't end up sticking with that person for the rest of your life, then you've just spoiled something that's supposed to be especially for the person you do stick with. And, yes, I agree that lack of willpower is the primary cause that can be attributed to these sorts of issues, but unfortunately, most people don't have that strength of willpower. So why put yourself under that kind of temptation, unless as you said, you're willing to take the risks.

When you said "morals and religion aren't the only reason" and I almost thought were were in for some medical edumacation about the evil things that happen to those who indulge in this behavior.

"Willpower" is all well and good, except that society focuses so much on "willpower" that all practical stuff gets left out. Like, what do you do if the willpower fails? Is your life over? The first question isn't appropriate to answer on this board, but the second question is clearly "no, your life is not over." But instead of saying that, we act like it will be the end of the world. We are setting people up to crash and burn.

Really, we do more damage by overplaying the risks involved than we do by stating the risks flatly. Not only does that lead people to mistrust most information they get from authority, but the fact is that people are really, really bad at judging risks, and exaggerated info just increases the problem. For example, girls hear "OMG you'll get pregnant!" over and over, and then if they risk take the risk and that doesn't happen immediately (which, you know, it probably won't), many of them actually conclude that they can't have kids! Which leads to all sorts of risky behaviors. Scaring people into compliance almost always backfires.