Super 7 Turtle figures shown at Power Con

[teemu]

Originally Posted by SleepDrifter

Oh shocker. The most sour grapes Super7 collector on this board is in no hurry to buy more S7 product. I feel like this is a semi-daily post from this user. I’ve been disappointed with S7 as well, but I’ll be ok.

Also, teemu - what are you even saying??? Over bought and over produced are not the same… yet again. You love this narrative. Im not sure if it’s you not understanding the difference between the terms or you like to be dramatic. The retailers buy, Super7 sells. They aren’t mass producing these and just storing them in a warehouse and slowly leaking them out to the public at discount prices. That’s not how this industry succeeds. If retailers over bought and need to make room for new product vs stuff that’s not moving- it gets discounted. ALSO: Your rumors are completely unsubstantiated. I spoke with Josh from Super7, recently in person, about TMNT amongst other things and their TMNT Ultimates continues to be one of their most successful products. They have no intention to stop producing TMNT Ultimates until their license is up for renewal- in which case they most likely renew because, get this, it is still one of their most successful products. Also he has no idea what any of the rumors are about Varner or Playmates not allowing them to make certain figures. In some instances if the rights are murky or are seemingly hard to verify, the character in question takes a back seat until it can get cleared. There has not been animosity between companies or artists. Most of the OG artists are stoked to have their figures brought back to life. According to S7, you can expect to see TMNT Ultimates on their docket for a long while. This is direct from an employee. Please give sources for your inside information. That would help validate your words and not just make it seem like you’re stirring up the pot for needless drama.

I’m in no way defending the company from some of their glaring flaws but it’s become such a trend to keep kicking this company. Super7 is a small independent company with some very cool people working for them. Are there major issues, yes. Are they doing something no one else is doing in the TMNT market, yeah. Don’t like it? Don’t buy it. Don’t want to pay the premium? Take your chances and don’t. Hopefully Super7 continues to grow and learn as their company becomes more successful. The whining is insufferable and it reminds that this hobby certainly proves that some people truly refuse to grow up.

If you “hear” or read something that happens to seem like it could be true, please be responsible and make sure to reference the source it came from.

I'm glad you enjoy watching NEW product being forced to go on discount for it to sell. Retailers over-bought and can't sell them for retail price. It's not hard to understand. It's only going to be successful as long as customers keep paying their high pre-order prices, but are now seeing everything being discounted right away for much less, hence less pre-ordering in the future. This is what I'm talking about. Customers and Retailers will order less, reducing Super7's overall profit and production.

[teemu]

Originally Posted by SleepDrifter

Man, your posts are so cringe I don’t know where to start. The longevity of the line relies upon the use of the license. It’s a term that the license holder agrees upon and when the term is up they usually have the option to renew. Again, I spoke directly to an employee, Josh, at Super7 just about a month ago who says that TMNT continues to be thriving and is one of their most successful lines out of all of their products- I don’t see why they wouldn’t renew the license.

Also “to satisfy your curiosity”??? LOL!! Dude. Are you for real? You sound like a child or a liar. Maybe you’re both. We are talking about toys. This isn’t insider trading. Grow up.

go **** yourself Hyppocrite dork...you are just as much as a "child" as the rest of us..being a grown man buying children toys, Grow up,right??

[Chris]

Originally Posted by teemu

Why do I have to provide a "source". There are people in the know and I do not have to disclose that to satisfy your curiousity

To satisfy my curiosity? You don't, and I wouldn't intentionally ask anyone to betray someone's trust. But you say "I've heard rumors/rumors say", not "I've been told". This suggests you've read it somewhere, not that a source has told you in confidence (in which case you probably shouldn't be spreading it anonymously on a message board in the first place), so you can't be surprised when people ask where the rumors come from.

And, either way, an anonymous person online saying "trust me I've been told", when nowhere else is reporting any similar rumors, is going to be treated with a healthy amount of skepticism.

Plus, context is really important. You say the rumor is that sales are down, but from what point? For arguments sake, let's say the peak demand for the line was when wave 1 went back up for re-order, wave 2 pre-orders were re-opened to retailers, and wave 3 was up for order. Maybe throw wave 4 in there as well. Fall off from that point is natural as most of the major characters that casual fans would want were in those waves. That's pretty much baked into the line.

Originally Posted by teemu

Yeah, they made what was ordered and what was ordered was TOO MANY, hence retailers heavily discounting to sell inventory. Sorry, that's not a good thing.

But it IS their problem, because what is currently not selling means less orders for future waves from retailers and Super7 not making quota's to produce the MOQ

That's how markets work. Super7 does not (and should not) be telling their customers to order less! Anything retailers are sat on/selling at discount, Super7 has already been paid for. If retailers feel they have over ordered and had to discount too much stock then they order less next time.

What's best for Super 7 and the line? If a retailer orders 500 of each figure in wave 1, has to discount 200 and then orders 300 of each in the future, or if they just ordered 300 of each from the start? Direct customers might feel better with the second if it meant they weren't seeing as many sales, but Super7 is down 200 sales per figure (and the retailer likely made at least something on the discounted figures even if they didn't make as much as they would have liked). And if that 300 floor means Super7 are below MOQ then it doesn't matter whether they oversold the previous wave(s) or not, it's game over.

Ultimately all that matters are two things - are Super7 happy with the number they are selling/are they selling enough to meet MOQ? And are retailers ok with the number they are selling and the percentage they are selling at discount? If both of those is yes, then there's no issue besides some fans being upset at seeing products on sale after they paid full price. So, don't pre-order and buy in the sale. You are still buying the figure. Super7 arguably won't care if you buy direct from them or from a reseller (yes, they make less from a reseller than direct sale but they must be happy with the margins they are offering to resellers).

Originally Posted by teemu

I'm glad you enjoy watching NEW product being forced to go on discount for it to sell. Retailers over-bought and can't sell them for retail price. It's not hard to understand. It's only going to be successful as long as customers keep paying their high pre-order prices, but are now seeing everything being discounted right away for much less, hence less pre-ordering in the future. This is what I'm talking about. Customers and Retailers will order less, reducing Super7's overall profit and production.

Let's wait and see if the wave 5 & 6 sales continue after Black Friday/Cyber Monday before saying they are forced to discount to sell.

And I can't speak for Super7, but that's a big presumption to say they couldn't work without direct customer pre-orders. They already took away the direct sale option for international customers so I do believe they could switch to a model of selling to retailers only rather than direct to customer if they wanted to.

[Y2Josh]

There's way too much to respond individually to here, but just a couple general points here.

First, I think it's clear that Super7 DID overproduce these, as they have nearly every figure from the first four waves available on their own website. Speculation on my part to be sure, but my guess is pre-orders were huge before they actually delivered product so they produced more than were ordered expecting the demand to remain high - only this was somewhat diminished when the QC issues started to become apparent. Again, that's just me guessing, but their entire business model is to do "made to order," so it seems odd that they have lingering stock of 13 of those first 16 figures.

Second, I think it's fair enough to say Super7 is an "indie" company, which certainly explains some of their baffling decisions... but something that seems to get overlooked is that they've been around for like 20 years. This isn't some company that just started in 2019 or something - the poor QC is truly inexcusable.

Having said that... for $38? I went ahead and ordered Krang. I'll try to hold out for steeper discounts on Ray and Ace.

[mikey see]

I think calling them an "indy company" gets a lot more difficult when you consider the HUGE number of IPs they're working with, too, including some of the biggest there are. They're pretty much only missing Star Wars and Marvel, right? They've got all of the other biggies covered, not to mention hundreds of smaller popular brands and the freaking NBA. The "aw shucks, we're just tiny" excuse wore thin years ago and at this point it's just insulting.

Interesting point about Super7 themselves having extra stock for sale. I hadn't realized that, and that does seem to point to them making extra. That's got to hurt when EE and others have those figures heavily discounted permanently. I wonder if they're dealing with factory minimums or they're just misjudging demand. They've still got the GI Joe SDCC exclusive for sale, too, and I would have thought that would be a pretty hot item.

[Chris]

I agree, I think they're beyond indie at this point. Sure, they're not Hasbro or Mattel but they've been around a long time now and have lots of big licenses. I think some of their issues actually come from how rapidly they've expanded in the last few years/how many new lines they have taken on. They're stretching themselves very thin.

None of what I've said above excuses the QC issues which should have been resolved long ago at this point. They pull the small/indie card on this too often when they've been around long enough to know better and have better expected of them.

Interesting point by Y2Josh on the early waves. I hadn't seen that myself as I can't order direct. Maybe they did over order based on the high demand for those waves. maybe there were some cancellations, maybe a mix of both. I don't think it would be factory minimum as those early waves are the biggest/most wanted characters in the franchise so if they were having to over order on the first waves there's no way the line would be viable going forwards.

[Juicexct]

GITD Foot Soldiers are starting to ship early.

[Dask]

Originally Posted by Y2Josh

Having said that... for $38? I went ahead and ordered Krang.

Well, you probably already know, the walker sucks. So, I am definitely not expecting anything less than a "not-so-positive" review from you

[Dask]

The made-to-order model is a safety net approach as it allows companies such as Super7 to calibrate the line as they deem appropriate. No one actually loses money unless the retailer decides to sell it at less than the break-even point, which doesn't appear to be the case.

There is no immediate danger to the license from fluctuations in price. The only relevant enterprise environment factors at this point is whether they are allowed to renew the license. For example, Super7 lost the He-man license. Mattel lost the the ThunderCats license. And, NECA lost the Godzilla license. But losing the license is not directly related to public reception of the product or product pricing. It has more to do with the higher-ups and their notion of portfolio managment.

[Y2Josh]

Originally Posted by Dask

Well, you probably already know, the walker sucks. So, I am definitely not expecting anything less than a "not-so-positive" review from you

I've heard, but I feel like I HAVE to have Krang in the collection. Anyone else, I'm good to wait on a pretty decent discount on.

Except maybe Super Shredder, dependent on how he looks.

[Chris]

Speaking of Super Shredder, who do people think we'll see over the next few waves?

Super Shredder has been teased (I think in a Fwoosh interview?)

Napoleon Bonafrog, Chrome Dome, and Heavy Metal Raph are in the latest wave of ReAction figures. Whilst there's not a strict if they're in one line they'll be in the other, there's normally a good amount of overlap since Super7 make the characters they like. So I'm reasonably confident we'll see them over the next wave or two.

I'd really like the next five waves to complete the punk frogs (including the missing two) and the Neutrinos. They could alternate waves like they have with Genghis and Zak, so something like

10 - Napoleon
11 - Kala
12 - Attila
13 - Dask
14 - Rasputin

If we get Super Shredder I like to think that Tokka and Rahzar won't be far behind. Same for Groundchuck and Dirtbag with Chrome Dome.

Tokka could actually work well in the 5th figure slot since he shared the Slash body in the vintage line. On that fifth slot, April could easily have a repaint (either the green outfit or the yellow with purple) whilst they're offering easy variants. Hopefully with a new head sculpt. Casey could as well, maybe do the Mirage red top and throw in the unproduced unmasked head.

Turtle variants - maybe alternate between the rock stars and sports stars? And throw in Undercover Don!

And dear God, please give us Rat King and Traag sooner rather than later

[Robogeek1973]

At this point my needs are Shogun Shoate and Hothead as hopefully bigger figures like Triceraton is, and my wants are Groundchuck and Dirtbag.

[Dask]

Originally Posted by Chris

Speaking of Super Shredder, who do people think we'll see over the next few waves?

Super Shredder has been teased (I think in a Fwoosh interview?)

Napoleon Bonafrog, Chrome Dome, and Heavy Metal Raph are in the latest wave of ReAction figures. Whilst there's not a strict if they're in one line they'll be in the other, there's normally a good amount of overlap since Super7 make the characters they like. So I'm reasonably confident we'll see them over the next wave or two.

I'd really like the next five waves to complete the punk frogs (including the missing two) and the Neutrinos. They could alternate waves like they have with Genghis and Zak, so something like

10 - Napoleon
11 - Kala
12 - Attila
13 - Dask
14 - Rasputin

If we get Super Shredder I like to think that Tokka and Rahzar won't be far behind. Same for Groundchuck and Dirtbag with Chrome Dome.

Tokka could actually work well in the 5th figure slot since he shared the Slash body in the vintage line. On that fifth slot, April could easily have a repaint (either the green outfit or the yellow with purple) whilst they're offering easy variants. Hopefully with a new head sculpt. Casey could as well, maybe do the Mirage red top and throw in the unproduced unmasked head.

Turtle variants - maybe alternate between the rock stars and sports stars? And throw in Undercover Don!

And dear God, please give us Rat King and Traag sooner rather than later

Add in Hot Head, Usagi, Panda Khan (?), and Granitor (?) and you have a winning combination. Shogun Shoate and Shogun Triceraton would be nice.

Also, if Super7 attempts Super Shredder (logically, Rahzar and Tokka too), a film turtles wave might be in the cards (wave 9 flocked Splinter might be a test trial for a flocked film Splinter).

[mikey see]

Ya'll are applying too much logic to this. This is Super7 you're talking about. I wouldn't put it past them to only give us one frog, just Tokka, and no more sports turtles.

(no I don't actually expect that, just pointing out that S7 does what S7 wants to do, not what "makes sense")

[Y2Josh]

Originally Posted by mikey see

Ya'll are applying too much logic to this. This is Super7 you're talking about. I wouldn't put it past them to only give us one frog, just Tokka, and no more sports turtles.

(no I don't actually expect that, just pointing out that S7 does what S7 wants to do, not what "makes sense")

Honestly, I'd only be open to one more frog anyway.

More than any other TMNT line, this one relies the most on nostalgia. So even though little kid me wanted figures of Attila and Rasputin, adult me doesn't care about having updated versions of figures that never existed to begin with.

That said, the only figures I'd say I'd consider must buys at this point, discount or no, would be Rat King and Usagi. There are other figures I wouldn't mind having, but I'd need to see the QC improve or get them at a hefty S7 glitch or EE discount.

As far as what I'd think is likely for subsequent waves? I'm expecting them to continue in the vein of Wave 9 for at least a few waves, with two no-brainers, a random variant (I don't care about the variants, but one would think they'd TRY to finish one of the sublines before introducing a fourth), a deeper cut figure (though maybe Zak isn't a deep cut - I just know none of my friends had him when we were young) and then a repaint/re-deco.

[SleepDrifter]

Originally Posted by teemu

go **** yourself Hyppocrite dork...you are just as much as a "child" as the rest of us..being a grown man buying children toys, Grow up,right??

Wow…

Anyway, I’m really hoping they are able to pull off Needle Nose and Killer Bee in between waves. If they are going to scale them to the 7” figs they are going to be massive and rife with detail. They’d definitely be centerpieces in my collection. I have a lot of fond memories of those dudes.

[Dask]

I do agree with Zelu (according to his insta story) that Ray Fillet is the cream of crop of the entire Super7 line. Zelu is known for making the best toon version of April (hopefully NECA hires him to make April, Tempestra, and Mona Lisa - his female figures are exceptional).

Ray Fillet is currently $38 along with Leatherhead, Surfer Leo at Entertainment Earth (I think Bebop is like $23).

GITD Mutagen Man is $15 if anyone wants him (I bought two at retail like a clown because I was misled by GITD Baxter which was $150+ in the aftermarket!).

[teemu]

Originally Posted by Dask

I do agree with Zelu (according to his insta story) that Ray Fillet is the cream of crop of the entire Super7 line. Zelu is known for making the best toon version of April (hopefully NECA hires him to make April, Tempestra, and Mona Lisa - his female figures are exceptional).

Ray Fillet is currently $38 along with Leatherhead, Surfer Leo at Entertainment Earth (I think Bebop is like $23).

GITD Mutagen Man is $15 if anyone wants him (I bought two at retail like a clown because I was misled by GITD Baxter which was $150+ in the aftermarket!).

These insane discounts for just released, new, over produced product is very healthy for all super7 Ultimates lines across the board. It will keep people paying full prices at Super7 for each upcoming pre-orders in the future, making sure more waves keep getting made. Very healthy to see these discounts already!

[jestergoblin]

Wave 9 is showing up on Amazon for preorder as sold and shipped by Amazon.

[Dask]

Originally Posted by teemu

These insane discounts for just released, new, over produced product is very healthy for all super7 Ultimates lines across the board. It will keep people paying full prices at Super7 for each upcoming pre-orders in the future, making sure more waves keep getting made. Very healthy to see these discounts already!

You do have a point about the "healthiness" of the brand. While a $38 price tag is approaching the break-even point as far as the profit margin of the retailer is concerned, $23 (for Bebop) and $15 (for GITD MM) is to move unwanted inventory, which may incentivize (de-incentivize) the retailer in question to order less stock in the future.

There's really no point in preordering Super7. I almost didn't preorder wave 9 but then their website glitched up so I figured that I would at least be getting figures at a discounted rate. Likewise, while I generally preorder ThunderCats, I passed on the Reptilian Guard, Reptilian Warrior and Reptilian Brute as I could probably get them for a discounted price. This coming from a person that typically preorders everything.