Project: Episode Order for OT

[JoeD80]

Originally Posted by themaxonline

One of them is with this particular manhole cover. I guess if it's not chewed up, it came before the Zipps. If it is, it came afterward.

Yep, I'll keep an eye-out on that manhole cover!

Now I only managed to get three episodes in this weekend because of Star Trek opening and I had to do a lot of work on Saturday, but I will likely have the next six tomorrow.

So on to the next three:

Attack of the 50-Foot Irma - here's one where April does not seem to know what the module is yet when it shows up, and on the modules when Shredder heads back to the Technodrome, Leonardo tells the turtles to follow it. Lava then erupts and the turtles are all surprised, so this one has to go *before* Sky Turtles. Krang is also in his android body in this episode.

The Maltese Hamster - this one is not easy to place because we don't get any shots of the Technodrome and Krang isn't in the episode. If there is Krang, did I miss it? We mostly follow another gangster that Shredder has hired. However, Shredder's mission is more power for the Technodrome so I will say that goes earlier than Sky Turtles where his mission is destroying the city. Also April sees a module in this episode so likely this one goes after Irma. This one is a little tentative until I see more of the next group though. Will re-watch this one.

Cowabunga Shredhead - This one definitely follows Turtles on Trial because Michaelangelo uses one of the people masks for his disguise. Krang is in this episode and now I can't quite recall if we see him in his bubble walker as well, but he was in his android body for the most part. The module doesn't seem to have much trouble finding the correct location while in the other episodes the module usually ended up in the wrong spot.

OK, so plan six more episodes tomorrow + 1 re-watch, and as always check the top for the current updated list!

[JoeD80]

Apologies for not having updated the list this week. I had all my deadlines at work sneak up on me this week!

I did watch "The Fifth Turtle" where the Technodrome does a spinning drop through the caves after driving around a bit. I'm going to have to take a closer look at the views of the Technodrome in the previous episodes because so far the only one that seems to be different is the one in "Sky Turtles." Since the Technodrome finally gets some power in this episode, it may follow right after Turtles on Trial where the Technodrome finally receives coolant. The Turtles do use the people masks in this episode.

That's the only episode to add at this point, but I added some more episodes to expect on Monday of next week, so there will be an update of 14 episodes and then we'll be back to 3 per night. There is a little discrepancy between the air-order and rerun-order on my list for some episodes ("Beware the Lotus" and "Blast from the Past"), so I'm going to stick to the publication dates from Gobo's list while keeping the later dates in mind. Since we're re-ordering anyway, I don't think this will be much of a problem.

Check the top for the upcoming episodes!

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by gobo

Don't forget that Donatello references "SKY TURTLES" as episode six in another episode (mentioned in your other thread). I'd call that a clue.

Maybe he meant Return of the Jedi

[themaxonline]

Just watching 'New York's Shiniest' and when April's apartment is being robbed, she says "Uwwww...! If only the Turtles were here they wouldn't do that to me." and Irma looks to the camera and says "Most people want the boys in blue. April wants the boys in green." Before this, Irma was always curious about the turtles and April would just say she met them a few times or whatever but it seems to me that at this point, Irma is more comfortable with the turtles and less curious and April is less afraid of admitting that she's actually friends with the turtles to Irma.

[JoeD80]

Originally Posted by themaxonline

Just watching 'New York's Shiniest' and when April's apartment is being robbed, she says "Uwwww...! If only the Turtles were here they wouldn't do that to me." and Irma looks to the camera and says "Most people want the boys in blue. April wants the boys in green." Before this, Irma was always curious about the turtles and April would just say she met them a few times or whatever but it seems to me that at this point, Irma is more comfortable with the turtles and less curious and April is less afraid of admitting that she's actually friends with the turtles to Irma.

It's funny I had a similar analysis written in my notes! I'll have to go back to my season 2 notes to figure out why I put that episode earlier.

But now, on to the current set of episodes. I only made it to "Camera Bugged" but part of it was an organizational issue. I read through all my notes up to that point and came up with a few items to watch for and came up with some precedence rules, which took me a good 3 hours to do. The episodes actually link together quite well based on multiple rules.

So I won't bother you with all my notes (they take up about five or six pages), but here's the basics:

1. Modules - based on whether the modules are followed by the turtles or not; whether lava comes up; and the turtles reaction on seeing the module or seeing the lava.
2. Donatello's inventions, based on when he invents it to when he uses it. Here's an interesting one: That grappling hook weapon Michaelangelo starts using later is used by Donatello in some of these episodes!
3. Rats - Enter the Rat King obviously has a lot of rats, but there was another episode with a rat as well. I grouped these close together
4. Weather - several of the episodes have rain and thunder storms. I grouped these close together as well.
5. Disguises - some of the episodes the turtles use their private eye disguises without any masks, and in others they use the people masks. I pushed the people mask episodes later.
6. Hideouts - sometimes Shredder uses a hide-out instead of drilling into a random part of the city. I grouped these close together.
7. Rock Soldiers / Foot Soldiers - some episodes Krang lets Shredder use Foot Soldiers and in others they aren't involved. Also the Rock Soldiers sometimes show up in the Technodrome. The only time they've been used on the surface so far is when Krang takes them. I tried to place these where they made the most sense.
8. Cooling / Power - Some episodes deal with the Technodrome requiring coolant or power. I tried to put these in an order that made the most sense. e.g. Turtles on Trial Krang finally gets coolant. The episode Burne's Blues where Krang is trying to get coolant has to go before that since the problem is solved in "Trial".
9. Burne Thompson - There's a bit of an arc of his character where he is depressed for several episodes that he's not getting any good stories on Channel 6. These episodes were grouped close together.
10. Technodrome location - this one is harder than I thought. There are several different angles the Technodrome is shown at, but I grouped the ones that made the most sense together. Although "The Fifth Turtle" ends up at the end of the list based on this it also ended up there by other rules as well, so I think it makes sense at this point. This could change the list depending on how later episodes play out.

So, take a look at the new order (at the top of the thread) for the first 15 episodes of season 3 (remember some later episodes may still change this order)

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by themaxonline

Just watching 'New York's Shiniest' and when April's apartment is being robbed, she says "Uwwww...! If only the Turtles were here they wouldn't do that to me." and Irma looks to the camera and says "Most people want the boys in blue. April wants the boys in green." Before this, Irma was always curious about the turtles and April would just say she met them a few times or whatever but it seems to me that at this point, Irma is more comfortable with the turtles and less curious and April is less afraid of admitting that she's actually friends with the turtles to Irma.

I did think that was interesting that Irma just assumes the turtles' existance with a ho-hum-ness, even if she hadn't ever met them. Still, even if Shiniest preceeds Catwoman from Channel Six, Irma seems very comfortable with the turtles without having met them to call them up on April's turtle cam and not freak out. Now meeting Splinter on the other hand...

For a girl who has no inhibitions about dating a 7-foot robot, I think we have to just assume it takes a lot to freak out Irma... outside the prospect of a romantic relationship of course.

[Luke795]

In Elementary, My Dear Turtle and Once Upon A Time Machine someone says its the year 1991 even though they should be 1990 episodes.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by JoeD80

4. Weather - several of the episodes have rain and thunder storms. I grouped these close together as well.

Not to knock you, but this one is silly. They don't have a monsoon season in NYC, rainy days are just random events.

[Chris]

Just a quick question and this seemed like the best thread;

I appreciate that this thread is attempting to create a definitive episode order for the series, but I was just curious about the current orders.

As far as I'm aware there's at least 4 different orders - the official site guide, production order, air date order and DVD release order and all of them are different.

Which is the most accurate (ie has the least chronological errors) to watch the show in? And how many obvious errors (roughly) are in each order?

Thanks

[JoeD80]

I updated the list slightly. I have been thinking about this 1989 season, and since I haven't posted all my detailed notes for it at this point (too long to post), I think what I'll do is pull up my edited notes for the 1989 season once we reach "The Big Blowout" so that we can have an easier time discussing what makes sense and what doesn't. There is bound to be stuff I missed or things I didn't think about. Then I'll re-watch the season in the new order and hopefully we can tweak the order even more. So for now you will see updates to the list and not much from me. (I'm planning to finish this season out by Memorial Day or a little later.)

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Not to knock you, but this one is silly. They don't have a monsoon season in NYC, rainy days are just random events.

Don't worry, I didn't put a great deal of emphasis into this one, they were in episodes already grouped together for other reasons. I just used it to move episodes slightly one or two spots. (It was actually so episodes grouped together didn't alternate rain, thunder, rain, thunder - I changed it to rain, rain, thunder, thunder.)

Originally Posted by Luke795

In Elementary, My Dear Turtle and Once Upon A Time Machine someone says its the year 1991 even though they should be 1990 episodes.

Thanks for that one. I didn't realize any of the episodes had specific dates mentioned in them! That is interesting since one of those is a European episode.

Originally Posted by Chris

As far as I'm aware there's at least 4 different orders - the official site guide, production order, air date order and DVD release order and all of them are different.

Which is the most accurate (ie has the least chronological errors) to watch the show in? And how many obvious errors (roughly) are in each order?

Air-date to me seems closest, but it still has some issues (that's why I started from air-date order). The official site order works fairly well, but there are some hiccups in there (e. g. Dimension X Story is out of place; The 1992 season is quite a bit off with several episodes and Leonardo Is Missing way out of place). Production order will not work for a lot of it. The 1989 season on the official site will be more accurate than production order, but you will run into a few continuity glitches. I am not sure why the differences between the DVD and the ninjaturtles.com orders. I'd probably stick with the site over the DVD, but for the most part air-date over either of them.

Hopefully, we will end up with a good order here!

[Chris]

Thanks for that!

I have the first four seasons (picked them up last time I was in the US), so I have a bit of catching up to do! The rate I'll get to watch them (in the process of moving house) your list will probably remain ahead of me so I'll try and watch them in that order, but I'll dig out an air date list in case I get ahead.

[gobo]

I agree that airdates provide a more reliable order, but be aware that the DVD order was modeled after online resources. LG got no special list passed down from the creators.

[ToTheNines]

Ninja Sword from Nowhere should come before Turtles at the Earths Core.

In "Core" Krang talks about having cable installed in the Technodrome. In "Nowhere" he's watching the John and Marsha soap

[gobo]

I though John & Marsha was broadcast tv, like every other soap... ^_^

[JoeD80]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Ninja Sword from Nowhere should come before Turtles at the Earths Core.

In "Core" Krang talks about having cable installed in the Technodrome. In "Nowhere" he's watching the John and Marsha soap

Nice! I like this one.

Originally Posted by gobo

I though John & Marsha was broadcast tv, like every other soap... ^_^

Well the broadcast signals aren't getting down to the Earth's core! It would have to be on cable!

[gobo]

Good point. You win this round, Nines. *shakes fist in the air*

[JoeD80]

Sorry for being away from the thread so long. No updates right this minute, but I will be back on Monday with at least 8 episodes, and then I should be back on track for 3 per night (just keep checking the top of the thread until we hit The Big Blow Out and then I'll post my condensed version of notes!)

[ToTheNines]

I watched through most of season 4 this past month, and I've noticed that alot of the late episodes seem to take place very early in the season.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by JoeD80

1. Modules - based on whether the modules are followed by the turtles or not; whether lava comes up; and the turtles reaction on seeing the module or seeing the lava.

I'm guessing you've already noticed that "The Old Switcheroo" seems to be the first time the turtles see the Modules. Donatello calls it "some kind of subterranean transport device" after Mikey asks "what is that thing." It has to be the first time they see the familiar modules.

Also, in "April's Fool" the Turtles seem to have no idea that the modules produce an overflow of lava upon their departure. April sees it first and warns them but not before they burn their feet. I noticed you hadn't placed this episode yet, so are their any other instances that could confirm or contradict the possibility that "April's Fool" is the first time the turtles notice that the modules leave a lava trail?

EDIT: Just noticed Raph and Mikey get their feet burned by module lava in "Sky Turtles" due to standing too close to the module's hole. Not sure if the turtles just keep forgetting from episode to episode or what.

[themaxonline]

I realize it's still a bit away but in watching the European episodes, it bothers me how they don't seem to fit anywhere really. Well, it seems they should go after 'Plan 6' because of the turtles wanting a Europe vacation but it seems in Dimension X, Shredder and Krang have both evolved a bit further than the earlier episodes of the non-european season 4 have. So maybe they appear later in the season?

It also bothers me how inconsistent 'Tower Of Power' and 'Rust Never Sleeps' are to each other with how everyone is in Paris and then suddenly it's like they're all meeting in Paris again for the first time in the latter.