DC Relaunching AGAIN

[MikeandRaph87]

I just finished extending my Justice League of America volume one run with #64 & #65. Its a wild ride from 1968 to 1984. Stinky Detroit League was not for me.

It makes me wonder what your thoughts on All-Star Superman are. Unlike a certain fellow All-Star book this is held as a Modern Silver Age tale and a Modern Classic story as well. Maybe it is, maybe it is not to you. I have not read it. Knowing your general negative perception of the Pre-crisis Silver Age Superman I assume it is not for you.
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Justice_L...erica_Vol_1_64

[Leo656]

It's "fine" for what it is, but given how over-the-top silly it is, it's definitely not "THE Greatest Superman Story EVER!" the way it is for so many people.

Whenever people tell me it's their favorite/"the best" Superman comic, I immediately know it's the only one they've read in years, if not ever.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Leo656

It's "fine" for what it is, but given how over-the-top silly it is, it's definitely not "THE Greatest Superman Story EVER!" the way it is for so many people.

Whenever people tell me it's their favorite/"the best" Superman comic, I immediately know it's the only one they've read in years, if not ever.

Like how people say Miller's Batman: Year One and The Dark Knight Returns are the greatest two Batman stories ever told? I like, don't love Year One and always am tempted to point out the Barbara Gordon error and Selina Kyle is not a prostitute before I think 'it was well told and a great pool of inspiration'. I would rather read 'The Long Halloween' and the slightly preferred 'Dark Victory'. Though its the scripts. I don't care much for Sale's unique somewhat abstract style. The Dark Knight Returns just plain bores me, sorry folks. So yeah, I get it. I just All-Star Superman gets tons of praise and is 'Silver Age goofiness modernized'. I would not know, but I felt from reading your commentary I assumed, 'screw the campy lovefest'.

[MikeandRaph87]

Aquaman/Green Arrow: Deep Target is an interesting mini-series. Another one that looks promising is Robin and Batman three issue prestige format. I wonder if it will follow up Robin: Year One or replace it? Not sticking to the original continuity since Killer Croc was the last new villain Dick Grayson faced as Robin not the first. This one comes out in two weeks.

https://www.previewsworld.com/Catalog/JUL218998

[ZariusTwo]

Erm...yikes

https://www.tmz.com/2021/11/02/super...did=social-twa

[Leo656]

I can't stand it when people include pictures of Kal-El alongside stories about this whole angle.

That's actually part of the problem and why so many people are losing their sh*t over this to such an extreme degree, I think. Most people don't read past the headlines, they just read "DC Made Superman Bisexual" and automatically flip their sh*t because of course. And if they see a picture of Kal-El accompanying the article that only makes it worse.

Let's be honest, Jon has his ardent fans but among people who don't read comics, 99% of people on Planet Earth don't even know the character exists. So when they hear "Superman is Bisexual", they're reacting to what they THINK is going on, not what's actually going on. They probably wouldn't care about a character they never even knew about and will never be exposed to being bi.

The media's handling of the story from the beginning has been irresponsible and it's directly stoking the flames of the outrage. The correct headline they all should have run with is "Superman's SON Is Bisexual", and they shouldn't put pictures of Kal-El alongside the articles because it just adds to the confusion.

I mean I know Jon is "technically" Superman, now, therefore those headlines are "technically" correct. But again, let's be real. He's not "really" Superman in the eyes of the majority, especially people who don't have any idea he exists. Therefore, the media has a responsibility to present the facts not as they "technically" are, but in a way that people can understand clearly.

The media presents sensationalist headlines, and then people are surprised when people overreact in a "sensational" manner. Let's be honest: They wanted this. They manufactured the outrage by insisting on saying "Superman" is queer rather than Superman's son, and deliberately running pictures of Kal when Kal isn't the one the story is about.

I mean people making threats and sh*t is stupid but they've been manipulated and misinformed into acting that way, deliberately. The people presenting this story about Jon being bi know full well that nobody reads past the headlines anymore, yet they sensationalized anyway.

[AquaParade]

It's dumb, but it's likely what DC wanted anyway. It's likely the whole reason Jon became "Superman" in the very first place. So "Superman" could be bisexual.

[Leo656]

Undoubtedly.

On some level, not everyone even has a strong opinion about Jon being queer. I don't. I don't think I own five comics with the character. In which case, what gets me is how transparently manipulative the entire exercise is.

When people like Dean Cain say that the whole thing is insincere and that these companies are just fishing for SJW brownie points in a desperate attempt to regain market share and get headpats from Twitter, people get mad and call him names, but the thing is, he's absolutely correct. And THAT is what a lot of people are actually annoyed by, more than a fictional character they're never going to read about being queer.

Most people are just sick of how this stuff gets put into everything nowadays AND that people have to throw a parade over it every single time. If it were a little more subdued and sincere, and less a blatant attempt to show how "progressive" they were in an attempt to stay in the headlines, people probably wouldn't have such strong opinions.

I mean, this may shock some people, but we've had queer characters in comics, movies, and TV shows for decades upon decades now. Sometimes they were portrayed as stereotypes or made fun of, but not always, or even then it wasn't always exactly mean-spirited. Point being, it's old news, and people mostly got used to it a long time ago. But NOW, every time some fictional character "comes out" the mainstream press has to blow a trumpet about it like it's never been done before. And not surprisingly, the people writing such celebratory articles are most often queer themselves.

And I mean, that makes sense, self-interest and all. But here's the thing: THEY care a lot, and nobody else cares at all. Therefore they're just sick of the whole thing being shoved in their faces and are cranky about it.

I mean Elton John's been a cultural icon since the 70s. Pretty sure most people are okay with gay people. They just don't want it to be a constant topic of conversation. It's f*cking exhausting to anyone who isn't queer themselves.

Y'know what I find interesting is that several of my friends in wrestling are queer. Most of them, you'd never know it. I was genuinely shocked by a few. Because they don't constantly talk about and make a huge gigantic deal about it. And while they obviously favor more "representation", even many of them find the whole situation in recent times absolutely tiresome.

[AquaParade]

Yeah, honestly my head feels completely scrambled with all this ****, at this point.
I've never had any problem with any type of progressive behavior, and I do want for everyone to feel recognized, represented, etc, and I don't even mind characters evolving over time, but I'm just so tired of this wankery.

Maybe it's because, like you said, the transparency of it all - the media chasing, the brownie points, etc.
At the same time, maybe none of that should bother me, if this is somehow doing some good for someone out there. Maybe I'm just sick of the vocal part to the crowd this is being catered to/the Twitter mob. It's a lot of mixed feelings.

But again, and sort of as a side-note, if I picked up an actual, Kal El, Superman comic tomorrow, and he kissed an alien dude on Mars, I wouldn't think that's a problem at all. Mostly due to the fact that a man with his life experience would probably have a drastically open-mind when it comes to all things, sexuality included. I'm not saying sexual preference comes down to whether you are open-minded or not, but I just think once you've traveled to other galaxies, you become accustomed to trying lots of new things.

[IMJ]

When is everyone going to wake up and realize that most people aren't offended by "gay" or "POC" or anything like that? It's the assault on their values and the proposition that this is somehow a 'newer and better configuration" against something that shouldn't be "reconfigured". The volume of "angry responses" would probably drop from tens of thousands down to... like.... hundreds (bottom feeders) if these things were not part of the greater insanity that has promulgated across the country over the last years.

It's the difference between:

-the current zeitgeist of infiltration and appropriation equaling tens of thousands of angry people when you announce "gay Superman son" replaces regular Superman!"
vs
-They made Northstar gay in Alpha Flight, got some news coverage and one or two clowns protested at their comic shop.

None of this is about inclusion. It's about assaulting anything that is normal and well adjusted and the sheep that sense the "angry people of Twitter" and get on board out of fear and misperception that these attacks-using-diversity are a majority.

Originally Posted by AquaParade

But again, and sort of as a side-note, if I picked up an actual, Kal El, Superman comic tomorrow, and he kissed an alien dude on Mars, I wouldn't think that's a problem at all.

Are you a regular Superman reader?

Originally Posted by AquaParade

Mostly due to the fact that a man with his life experience would probably have a drastically open-mind when it comes to all things, sexuality included. I'm not saying sexual preference comes down to whether you are open-minded or not, but I just think once you've traveled to other galaxies, you become accustomed to trying lots of new things.

Clearly you are open minded - we can ascertain that even from your open-mindedness with this issue and your post. So we accept that you are open-minded - and I say this without sarcasm and from a point of intellectual fact. Have you engaged in sexual activity with another male? Please continue that open-mindedness regarding my question and admit it here; or explain why you haven't if you are also open minded to all things like this.

[MikeandRaph87]

One observation that I can note, as a straight caucasian man when I create fiction I make or take existing concepts of pretty much all straight Caucasians. Ever since reclassification himself as Sophie all Campbell can do is write about sexually ambiguous people. Campbell
can't get away without including what Campbell is to make it work from that person's perspective. It naturally would have never occurred to me that someone would would prefer romance outside of opposite gender same race in creating fiction because it is what is natural to me. If an African American writer is involved naturally the go to response is not gung-ho diversity but including African Americans or Blacks because we naturally want to work with those who are like us. I can understand that. Beyond that its in your face exploitation because the root of it is the desire for money. These Woke businesses are not woke but want wokester's money thinking short-term that they get more money and won't lose dedicated customers. We will see.

Let's move on to more positive conversation. So Robin and Batman, is this erasing Robin Year One or a follow up? A focus on the beginning of the Batman and Robin relationship? More specifically Bruce and Dick's relationship? Killer Croc was the last new villain Dick faced as Robin so obviously is not pulling from accuracy but I am curious about the 3 part prestige format.

[ZariusTwo]

Williamson confirms he will still be using Tynion's characters when his run on Batman begins

https://twitter.com/Williamson_Josh/...68846633947139

[ZariusTwo]

The Justice League Queer will have a story featured in the DC Winter special

https://aiptcomics.com/2021/11/05/ex...to-be-freezin/

[Leo656]

Madness.

[ZariusTwo]

Justice League: Last Ride

I highly recommend picking up all seven issues of this, it's a great book, Chip Zdarsky is fast becoming one of the most treasured writers in the industry. He's very much the anti-Tom King, as King often starts with optimistic status quos then callously deconstructs them, Zdarsky is the opposite, taking tragic circumstances and forging hopeful stories out of them by the end.

It's definitely worth a read if you're a Hal fan too.

Just brilliant character work, and absolutely zero wokery.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Justice League: Last Ride

I highly recommend picking up all seven issues of this, it's a great book, Chip Zdarsky is fast becoming one of the most treasured writers in the industry. He's very much the anti-Tom King, as King often starts with optimistic status quos then callously deconstructs them, Zdarsky is the opposite, taking tragic circumstances and forging hopeful stories out of them by the end.

It's definitely worth a read if you're a Hal fan too.

Just brilliant character work, and absolutely zero wokery.

I ignored it because it was like an Elseworlds and seemed like a team up with Lobo. It had Hal Jordan, but I was not sure where it was going.

Speaking of Tom King, I was wondering what The Human Target was all about. It looks like a Whodunit guest starring Justice League International.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

I ignored it because it was like an Elseworlds and seemed like a team up with Lobo. It had Hal Jordan, but I was not sure where it was going.

It is an elseworlds. It's also better than anything current DC is putting out. Don't dismiss it.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

It is an elseworlds. It's also better than anything current DC is putting out. Don't dismiss it.

Okay,then. I will put it at the top of my to read list and do so on readcomiconline. In return I encourage you to check out the non-canon, but interesting Aquaman/Green Arrow: Deep Target 7 issue series.

[MikeandRaph87]

Also, I didn't realize that Wally West is The Flash in it.

Why is John Stewart in it if Hal Jordan is?

How are Cyborg Superman and Brainiac melded together? Something like Luthoriac in Justice League season 4?

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Okay,then. I will put it at the top of my to read list and do so on readcomiconline. In return I encourage you to check out the non-canon, but interesting Aquaman/Green Arrow: Deep Target 7 issue series.

Will do. Thanks. I actually didn't think it was non-canonical at first.