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Old 05-02-2022, 10:15 AM   #61
Leo656
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Arguably she was even his superior. Leader of Japan Foot > Leader of NY Foot.

I just don't understand how it isn't more upsetting to people, particularly women. You have this awesome character that is Saki's superior, a leader, even a mother... and then in everything else she needs to be Saki's wayward daughter? What?

At some point someone probably realized that women universally make terrible bosses.
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Old 05-02-2022, 12:17 PM   #62
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I don't. You want to give Saki a daughter? Great, here's Pimiko. Use her.



Arguably she was even his superior. Leader of Japan Foot > Leader of NY Foot.

I just don't understand how it isn't more upsetting to people, particularly women. You have this awesome character that is Saki's superior, a leader, even a mother... and then in everything else she needs to be Saki's wayward daughter? What?
I think the problem is Karai only works when Shredder is gone and dead. We never see them interact in Mirage so we never got to actually see her call the shots or berate Saki for failure or whatever.

Since Shredder usually shown as alive and the big bad of the show, I guess people aren't ready to either show him reporting back to her or his boss, or having Shredder be perma-dead before Karai even makes an appearance.

If you make them share screentime, Shredder usually being the big bad forced her to his subordinate or some sort. 2K3 almost nailed it had the plan had been to keep Ch'Rell dead after his 2nd or so defeat.
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Old 05-02-2022, 12:45 PM   #63
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I don't. You want to give Saki a daughter? Great, here's Pimiko. Use her.
Hmm...makes sense.

Wasn't Karai introduced as Saki's "daughter" in 2k3, or am I misremembering?
If that's the case, I suppose Peter wanted to use a Mirage character and - help me again - wasn't Pimiko created within the Image run?

I mean, he could have created a new character too, I suppose.

I do like the idea of Karai being an equal, or more, to Saki.

Maybe we will see further remixes on the character in the future. Karai could be Saki's daughter, he doesn't know about, who comes from Japan and shreds his ass, before revealing herself and being the one to put an end to him.

Idk, either way I agree that she's cooler when she's not a subordinate to Saki.
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Old 05-02-2022, 01:28 PM   #64
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But on the other hand, her being more of a daughter does go nicely with the themes of family (most of which were made or found, and not based on blood relations as much in the TMNT universe) and revenge. I think it depends on the writing whether it's done well or not. Some incarnations do better with it than others.
I like idea of two families fighting, but I don't like it being Karai, because, it takes pre-existing character and turns into something it is not.
As a fan of FW series, I am not sure, if I can complain about it, though.

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Arguably she was even his superior. Leader of Japan Foot > Leader of NY Foot.
Precisely.

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Originally Posted by Andrew NDB View Post
I just don't understand how it isn't more upsetting to people, particularly women. You have this awesome character that is Saki's superior, a leader, even a mother... and then in everything else she needs to be Saki's wayward daughter? What?
I think it is, and pardon my bluntness, because, almost no-one cares much about Mirage'verse.
And most people have been introduced to Karai via 2k3 series or 2k7 movie, so they simply don't know who she was before.

If I was in charge of TMNT series of my own, I'd rectified that injustice, though I don't think everyone would like all of my "creative decisions".
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Old 05-02-2022, 01:48 PM   #65
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That's basically how it always works. Spin-off media always supersedes the original source material because it becomes more well-known. "Nobody reads comics" and that's always been the case compared to how many people watch cartoons or movies, so it really "doesn't matter" whatever was established in the source material. "The source material doesn't count, only the stuff people actually know counts."

"You mean Mikey wasn't always a pizza-obsessed brain-dead idiot? Well, that's how *I* first met him, so that's who he is To Me. You mean Raphael WASN'T a 'wacky prankster', he was an angry violent loner? Well, *I* know him best from the cartoon, so I don't care what some comic book I never read says, even if it came first. You mean Karai wasn't Shredder's daughter, she was his BOSS? Well, she's his daughter in every other version, and I like it better that way anyway, so that comic is wrong. They just didn't have it all figured out yet."

That's how it works. So even though Karai was invented to be Shredder's superior... doesn't matter, she's his kid now. Not only has it been done in media that's been seen by way more people, it wasn't just once or twice but Every Single Time. So now the original source material is the sole outlier, and as odd as that is, there's no going back on it Now. It's just been too consistently overwritten. Just like Mikey will never be anything but a moron again, and so forth. It's just impossible to go back on these things once they become so established in more popular media.
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Old 05-03-2022, 11:47 AM   #66
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I don't. You want to give Saki a daughter? Great, here's Pimiko. Use her.



Arguably she was even his superior. Leader of Japan Foot > Leader of NY Foot.

I just don't understand how it isn't more upsetting to people, particularly women. You have this awesome character that is Saki's superior, a leader, even a mother... and then in everything else she needs to be Saki's wayward daughter? What?
Great points
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Old 05-03-2022, 11:48 AM   #67
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That was what he was talking about after the Nick sale. His pitch for a maxi-series shopped around that just picked up after "Return to New York" but not "City at War." There's some shades of "Last Ronin" to it but not much, but maybe that'd be the idea with some kind of ongoing Last Ronin prequel series. Except now it'd be some kind of alternate IDW/Mirage hybrid universe like Last Ronin is.
Interesting idea. I'd never heard that before.
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Old 05-03-2022, 11:50 AM   #68
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Interesting idea. I'd never heard that before.
Same here. Excluding City at War would have been a hard pill for me to swallow. I feel like it's such a great continuation of those early Mirage issues. It follows the logical path of "Now, what?".

The four turtles were raised to assassinate Oroku Saki - they did it. Where do they go from here? What do they owe Splinter?
All really interesting ideas that actually play off and develop the themes of the original story.
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Old 05-04-2022, 02:56 PM   #69
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Same here. Excluding City at War would have been a hard pill for me to swallow. I feel like it's such a great continuation of those early Mirage issues. It follows the logical path of "Now, what?".

The four turtles were raised to assassinate Oroku Saki - they did it. Where do they go from here? What do they owe Splinter?
All really interesting ideas that actually play off and develop the themes of the original story.
Yes, I agree that it was a most approprite continuation. But a "what if" tangent is always intriguing.
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Old 06-22-2022, 07:33 PM   #70
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Waltz interview:

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Q: The final issue ends with an Epilogue and a "To Be Continued…” Are there plans for a sequel that explores this world further? Is that last image setting up an attempt to make new mutants or to literally bring back the original turtles?

A: Oh… standby, sports fans. I can’t give specifics yet, but suffice to say, we are not done with what we are now lovingly calling "The Ronin-verse." Big announcements coming soon!
https://www.cbr.com/tmnt-last-ronin-...ltz-interview/
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Old 06-22-2022, 08:04 PM   #71
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Well, there it is. Probably prequel material first.
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Old 06-22-2022, 09:38 PM   #72
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Awesome. I am glad it seems like they arent giving up their cash cow.
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Old 06-22-2022, 10:03 PM   #73
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I liked Ronin, sort of... just too bad sales/story on the ongoing has sucked so bad in the 2+ years since the regulars have been gone to do LR.

The ending was too predictable and safe... I really don't care to see a post- LR series and doing stories post whatever universe LR is the future of just doesn't interest me either really... IDW needs to maybe skip the Ongoing forward a couple years & focus on GREAT story telling and move the narrative the hell on from the garbage Mutant City...

They could always take a page from Mirage & do a Tales of series and just do small arcs that take place in random spots along the turtles timeline and as long as they don't mess up previous stories in the existing universe, its all good. Then do a new title, call it tmnt furries or something and let Campy keep going with this clusterfvck of a storyline.... see which one sells more copies.
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Old 07-02-2022, 07:54 AM   #74
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The hardcover collection is already #2 on Amazon's Graphic Novel Best Sellers, and it isn't even out yet.

I'm not buying it though. It's obviously the gimped version, because there are barely any extras in the back. No concept art, outline, sketches, and just a handful of covers. Pretty sad.

Anxiously awaiting whatever Deluxe edition they may release. Hope it doesn't take too long.
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Old 07-02-2022, 04:15 PM   #75
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I saw it too Last Ronins HC. It was disapointing that there werent any extra supplements. Just the main variant covers. I was hoping for the original plotted outline to read at least. Just surprised its more or less bare bones. Nothing from the directors cut or the other sketches one shot that had come out either among the extras.
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Old 07-06-2022, 07:04 AM   #76
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And... Well, obviously this story doesn't really fit any previously established continuity but does anyone think there is one that it doesn't contradict too much?
If you count TMNT part of the original trilogy series, this could just be slotted in as an ending to that. I mean TMNT doesn’t at all establish Karai’s relationship to Shredder.I mean outside of some character stuff like Fugitoid and Baxter. Though Baxter can fit the tone of those films.
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Old 07-09-2022, 12:45 PM   #77
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Looks like we’ll be getting an update on the “Roninverse” in two weeks at SDCC.

TMNT: Secrets of the Roninverse and Armageddon Game
Saturday, July 23, 2022
10:00 AM - 11:00 AM PST

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Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles comics have never been hotter! With the critically acclaimed The Last Ronin having reached its senses-shattering conclusion, fans have been left reeling with one burning question: What's next? TMNT co-creator Kevin Eastman, Tom Waltz, Ben Bishop, Erik Burnham, and moderator Charles Beacham tease what's next for "The Roninverse," IDW's ongoing continuity, Armageddon Game, and Saturday Morning Adventures.
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Old 07-09-2022, 03:42 PM   #78
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Interested to see where this goes. TLR was a blessing but there's definitely room for improvement.

I'm expecting we'll see both a prequel and a sequel series. I'm actually more interested in seeing the follow up to issue #5's ending.

I think a story featuring four new turtles could be really cool, if it feels like it has a reason to exist. Like it plays off past tmnt stories in a meaningful way.

That said, I think they still need to justify their existence. Why did Casey and April decide to do that? I'm still not sure I understand that. If they can come up with a good reason, I'm interested.

And yeah, the success of the book continues to astound. The single issues were just the prelude, because hardcover collections is where most people seem to be these days. It's already selling out and topping major sales charts on sites like Amazon and IST. If we thought it was successful before, we haven't even seen the long term evergreen sales this book will have.

It's just nice to see this version of TMNT get a win.
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Old 07-22-2022, 08:28 AM   #79
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The Oral History of The Last Ronin

https://www.inverse.com/entertainmen...t-oral-history
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Old 07-22-2022, 08:36 AM   #80
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Stoked to read this. Thanks.
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