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Old 07-05-2022, 07:44 PM   #21
Andrew NDB
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And it didn't parody Daredevil's origins. A parody of Daredevil's origins would be like, not-Matt Murdock bumbling down the stret in a clown outfit, tripping over a barrel and some ACME juice gets in his eyes. This was supplemental to his origin, if anything. Nothing was played for laughs.
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Old 07-05-2022, 07:49 PM   #22
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IDK man.... it would be like the guy who killed Bruce Wayne's parents also bumped into and killed someone else's babysitter just around the corner of Crime Alley or something and that kid grew loved his sitter so much he grew up to become Ratman or something.

Or to give a closer example to the mutagen affecting both Daredevil and the Turtles, one of the bullets that hit Martha somehow ricocheted off a wall and hit that kid's babysitter without Wayne noticing.
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Old 07-05-2022, 11:00 PM   #23
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I don't think you're supposed to be doubled over with laughter while reading it, but I do think you're allowed/expected to look at it and go "Man, this is some goofy stuff" all the same.
I'm confused why people seem to need to laugh out loud at all times when things are funny, else they think it didn't do the trick? Like some things are just written to make you think to yourself "Ah, I get it, it's clever."

"Foot Clan, Splinter, oh yeah, those are Daredevil parodies, yeah awesome. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? What an absurd concept and title."

I mean the best parodies are the ones that are made by people who love the thing they're making fun of.
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Old 07-05-2022, 11:45 PM   #24
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Just take anything in Mad Magazine. Those are parodies. TMNT #1, not a parody.
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Old 07-06-2022, 01:13 AM   #25
Zog The Magnificent
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"It was made in the 80's, therefore it's OK" isn't an argument.



I fail to see how issue 1 counts as parody. It is very referential of course, the origin is almost identical to Daredevil's origin. However, the only way in which Daredevil's origin in arguably being commented on in a humorous way, is to show that an industrial canister would not break against a human face but that's it and I'm not sure it's the intention.

Beyond the mere commentary aspect of parody, I fail to see in what way it is meant to be comedic. The Turtles killing a bunch of gang members is not funny, Oroku Nagi beating up Tang Shen is not funny, Yoshi committing manslaughter is not funny, a funeral is not funny, Shredder murdering two people is not funny, Splinter commanding the Turtles to take revenge is not funny and Shredder's suicide bombing is not funny. There are very few actual jokes and I'm pretty damn sure the far less referential later issues have more jokes. Even if it had more jokes, it still wouldn't qualify as parodic unless the intention was to mock the references.

Issue 1 can be argued to be pastiche or homage but it fails to really fall under the definition of parody. People mainly seem to call it parody either because they've heard other people call it that, people who in turn either don't know what the definition of parody is or simply assume that the comic is meant to be humorous just because the main characters are mutant turtles. That and a lot of people just keep perpetuating this idea simply because they've never bothered to read the comic and it just seems like it makes sense for it to be parody.
That's the whole joke. That first issue was a parody in multiple ways, and no amount of interviews after the fact can chance that. Someone already said, it, but it strikes me the same way Rowling made Dumbledore gay after the fact.

Issue #1 is a parody, due to:
-The clear Daredevil references
-The poking fun of the grim n' gritty comics of the era
-The fact that the concept is played entirely straight, yet stars four giant talking turtles. That itself is the joke. It's why a story about Mickey Mouse being a self destructive drunk wallowing in despair after his glory days have passed played entirely straight would be kind of hilarious.

Sometimes the best jokes are made by playing the concept straight, or letting it speak for itself, in an almost subtle manner. Another good example of this is Bookhunter by Jason Shiga, which parodys police thrillers by playing all of the tropes absolutely straight and with utmost sincerity, except that it's all being carried out by library police. It is never directly commented on, it's always there in the background, and it makes the whole thing funny in an ironic sort of way, despite the story itself being mostly devoid of actual humor. It's the same way with that first ninja turltes story.

And yes,"Crisler's Law" and whatever. I still don't know who that is, and I don't think that just because he said it it just suddenly becomes this slam dunk argument to dismiss the other side. The concept is silly. But so is the concept of Batman. It doesn't mean that you can't still tell good stories that take themselves seriously.
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Old 07-06-2022, 06:57 AM   #26
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Well, the problem with defining the comic as parody simply because it features mutant turtles as the protagonists, is that it would allow you to label anything starring a non-human character as a type of comedy. And since Batman is "inherently" absurd, as well as having some similarities to the Shadow, why not just go ahead and label Batman as a parody of the Shadow because his cape looks like bat wings?

As for your description of Bookhunter, I haven't read the actual comic but it sounds like there is an actual core joke there, a person is given way more authority than they would be in real life to solve a crime that would be considered way too petty to take that seriously in real life. There seems to be a much more clearly intended absurdity there.
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Old 07-06-2022, 12:38 PM   #27
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Well, the problem with defining the comic as parody simply because it features mutant turtles as the protagonists, is that it would allow you to label anything starring a non-human character as a type of comedy. And since Batman is "inherently" absurd, as well as having some similarities to the Shadow, why not just go ahead and label Batman as a parody of the Shadow because his cape looks like bat wings?

As for your description of Bookhunter, I haven't read the actual comic but it sounds like there is an actual core joke there, a person is given way more authority than they would be in real life to solve a crime that would be considered way too petty to take that seriously in real life. There seems to be a much more clearly intended absurdity there.
Exactly. Bookhunter is clearly absurd, but it's nothing that the story itself ever does. The story is all action and detective work, and not one person makes light of the fact that library police are carrying out actual police work over a book. The joke is built into the premise, and you the reader make that conncetion. I think it's the same with TMNT #1. It's a grim n gritty ninja action story about the cycle of revenge, but it's carried out by four giant turtles. It's clearly absurd. And I don't think that there's anything wrong with that! Some of the best ideas have come out of objectively absurd concepts. But I don't think you can look me straight in the eye and tell me that four giant talking turtles who do ninjitsu to avenge someone is not an absurd concept. The fact that they're turtles at all was part of the joke, because turtles in real life are not what you would consider a fast and agile creature, two traits necessary for being a ninja. Again, I'm not saying that the absurdity is bad, just that it's there, and that it's part of what made just the 1st issue a parody.

As for superheros, while I love the genre, I do still think that the initial concept, men going around in tights punching criminals with a variety of fantastic powers, is absurd. We've just gotten used to it because it's been around for so long, and people learned how to write the concept more seriously. Absurd doesn't necessarily mean bad.
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Old 07-08-2022, 07:14 PM   #28
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I'm confused why people seem to need to laugh out loud at all times when things are funny, else they think it didn't do the trick? Like some things are just written to make you think to yourself "Ah, I get it, it's clever."

"Foot Clan, Splinter, oh yeah, those are Daredevil parodies, yeah awesome. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? What an absurd concept and title."

I mean the best parodies are the ones that are made by people who love the thing they're making fun of.
No-one says that your "pwecious" Mirage comic books are funny parody.
It doesn't take away from the fact that A) TMNT was a parody and B) concept is absurd.

All sour pants Mirage TMNT fans can foam at the mouth for all I care.
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Old 07-14-2022, 04:52 AM   #29
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All Splinters are my enemies and i will kill them all. It dosent matter to me which ones of them were humans before mutation or which ones were rats that are mutated. The truth is however that i hate more the humans Hamato Yoshis than the rats because the humans were big enemies from me even before mutation.
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