Is there a "toxicity" in this fandom?

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I recall when Star Trek Beyond came out. The filmmakers wanted to make Sulu homosexual to honor George Takei. But he was against the idea because he always portrayed Sulu as Hetero.

In [CURRENT YEAR] he'd be labeled as a traitor of all gays and a homophobe.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Which is dumb. Should Spock suddenly be a homosexual because Zachary Quinto came out?

Well no... But from what I understand, there is gay fan fiction about Spock and Kirk stretching back to at least the 70's, so there certainly people out there who wants gay Spock regardless.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I recall when Star Trek Beyond came out. The filmmakers wanted to make Sulu homosexual to honor George Takei. But he was against the idea because he always portrayed Sulu as Hetero.

Then Pegg backpedaled and said that OK, only THIS Sulu was gay. The Prime timeline Sulu was still hetero.

Um... because the arrival of the Narada in the past would change someone's sexuality? Or, OH, I get it, sexuality really is a choice, that's what they're teaching us.

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Then Pegg backpedaled and said that OK, only THIS Sulu was gay. The Prime timeline Sulu was still hetero.

Um... because the arrival of the Narada in the past would change someone's sexuality? Or, OH, I bet it, sexuality really is a choice, that's what they're teaching us.

Playing ********'s advocate for a moment, the arrival clearly had a lot of temporal repercussions, not just obviously (and directly) changing the whole course of Kirk's life but also delaying the construction of the Enterprise by several years at least. It will undoubtedly have had inumerable effects on the timeline, some of them very subtle... but... I am at a loss to account for how it could have resulted in Sulu being gay if he wasn't already going to be.

I can picture George Takei's reaction, standing back, arms folded - All for representation, but... Why Sulu in particular...?

[Coola Yagami]

Has the toxicity died down since TMNT (until the Rogen movie comes out anyway) had died down?

[IndigoErth]

I suppose it has quieted with not a whole lot going on at the moment, minus the lessened but still ongoing argument over Rise and its most fervent, religious-like fans who can't deal with negative comments. (Via Reddit in particular.) Which makes me welcome that new movie either way to get us past this particular era.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

I suppose it has quieted with not a whole lot going on at the moment, minus the lessened but still ongoing argument over Rise and its most fervent, religious-like fans who can't deal with negative comments. (Via Reddit in particular.) Which makes me welcome that new movie either way to get us past this particular era.

I'm morbidly curious about the movie, just some of the designs don't work for me. They're kinda like the 2012 'turtle tot' design but with the initialized belt buckles and a slight 'Picasso' look to their designs. It makes me curious how the regular humans are gonna look in that movie.

Awfully cautious about the 'we're gonna focus more on the teen angle' which doesn't work for 4 isolated people trained in martial arts all their lives which don't have actual teen problems, like trying to be popular at school and such things.

[Vegeta]

Any reason why they keeping giving raph the hideous head bandanna and donnie the glasses? Very few seemed to love the PD and rise looks, can we escape these redesigns or are they a permanent fixture?

Same ambivalence about SR's comments on the teen angle, I've never once thought to myself in 30 years, I sure wish these turtles had more high school angst.

[IndigoErth]

I'd assume it's because the audience is believed to be too dumb to pick up on Donnie being the "nerd" or Raph being the "tough guy" without visual indicators.

Much the same as they've been slapping female human traits onto non-human female characters forever just to make sure we will know and never somehow forget that it's a girl. I'm sure we're all still very confused and frightened over this very pressing issue concerning Kung Fu Panda's character Tigress because the stereotypical visual indicators were not provided. Who on Earth would have ever figured out that she was a girl or been able to commit it to memory.

So same for Donnie especially. Lest you forget and start thinking he's somehow the cool, tough one.

[Vegeta]

Not trusting the audience, makes sense I suppose. Differentiation between the turtles is perfectly fine for me, or even awesome (mateus santolouco), just from an aesthetic these choices are butt ugly.

[newhire13]

I was pretty shocked and insulted by a comment someone made about black women in the movie thread so def some toxicity in the fandom. Maybe some people just lack social skills or something. I always end up coming and going on this site because for every cool post there's about 3 or 4 idiotic and needlessly combative ones. It drives people away.

[Cowabung-Gal]

I think we’re pretty tame in comparison to other “toxic” fandoms. At least we don’t tell people to off themselves if they draw Rocksteady too skinny or beat the snot out of someone if they spoil the next TMNT movie.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Cowabung-Gal

I think we’re pretty tame in comparison to other “toxic” fandoms.

I wish I could agree with this, but hands-down this is the most toxic fandom I've ever seen. Almost on par with "Indiana Jones" guys which you could probably make a parody-comedy about.

But the word "toxic" is pencil-whipped a lot now, and can manifest in a variety of ways. Here, I'd say "toxic" is 100% laced in a combination of people thinking they know what they are talking about combined with absolute ignorance. Incredibly dangerous combination at the social level.

Yet ironically as for the actual fandom towards TMNT, it's not the worst I've seen. Truth is, normally when a TMNT project is rejected it seems to be a wider fandom consensus as opposed to 5 loud outliers. Either way the TMNT fandom is the most "Napolean Dynamite" fandom I've ever witnessed. Ever. There was a point where I never would've guessed that depth was even possible in real life.

[AquaParade]

It's a strange fandom with a lot of unique people, from what I've seen.
This place has a toxic reputation, but I like a lot of people here.

What I've noticed is that many of the more relaxed posters feel shut out by the more abrasive toxic ones. I've gotten quite a few private messages over the years that all basically say that.

I think TMNT fans have a reputation for being strange, more so than being toxic, generally speaking. In terms of "public personalities" we tend to be represented by TMNT fans who many of us probably feel we have nothing in common with, or don't represent us at all. And then there were the television appearances that highlighted some of the, uh, zanier parts of the fandom.

I wouldn't paint any fandom with a wide-brush, though it's hard to deny some do seem more toxic than others. It also just depends on where you find them, which sometimes matters more.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by IMJ

Truth is, normally when a TMNT project is rejected it seems to be a wider fandom consensus as opposed to 5 loud outliers.

I think it is, because, TMNT fans got used to being surrounded by different versions of TMNT from its inception, basically. And then there were more different versions co-existing. It does help that most of them were good for one reason or the other and creators of said projects largely cared about some consistency and quality.

Nowadays, I see TMNT fans being burned out by the treatment franchise received after its been sold to Viacom: mediocre Bay movies, weird direction of the IDW comic books, rather questionable decision in both 2k12 and Rise series.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

It's a strange fandom with a lot of unique people, from what I've seen.
This place has a toxic reputation, but I like a lot of people here.

What I've noticed is that many of the more relaxed posters feel shut out by the more abrasive toxic ones. I've gotten quite a few private messages over the years that all basically say that.

I think TMNT fans have a reputation for being strange, more so than being toxic, generally speaking. In terms of "public personalities" we tend to be represented by TMNT fans who many of us probably feel we have nothing in common with, or don't represent us at all. And then there were the television appearances that highlighted some of the, uh, zanier parts of the fandom.

I wouldn't paint any fandom with a wide-brush, though it's hard to deny some do seem more toxic than others. It also just depends on where you find them, which sometimes matters more.

I've always found the loonier/more rabid the fan, the thinner the skin. Generally speaking. And boy it's been a bizarre fandom. If you don't like it now, go back 23 years when it was all angry old ladies banning everybody in between patting each other on the back about who wrote the best fanfic where a Mary Sue has sex or a baby with Raphael. I'll take now, even if the state of the "franchise" itself is considerably worse off than ever.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by Sumac

Nowadays, I see TMNT fans being burned out by the treatment franchise received after its been sold to Viacom: mediocre Bay movies, weird direction of the IDW comic books, rather questionable decision in both 2k12 and Rise series.

I agree completely. It's funny though because in every fandom you've got that "new project cheerleader" for anything new that comes out - that level of "toxic positivity". We had some of that here with that one or two guys who were completely personally challenged by the general apathy/disdain for "Rise". The level that they dug-in on arguing that people should like that show bordered on hysteria. It's the same thing with the handful of people here still buying the IDW book and variants every month and bugging up when you point out the realities of that situation.

Some fandoms have fans whose lives revolve around their fandom so strongly that it becomes inextricable from their personalities. Fans ultimately view a space often as their own. They need the win.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I've always found the loonier/more rabid the fan, the thinner the skin.

Somebody had to fill the space left behind by SDP.... LOL! You guys know who I meeeeaaaannnn.......

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by IMJ

Somebody had to fill the space left behind by SDP.... LOL! You guys know who I meeeeaaaannnn.......

Did SDP leave? I didn't even notice.

Originally Posted by IMJ

I agree completely. It's funny though because in every fandom you've got that "new project cheerleader" for anything new that comes out - that level of "toxic positivity". We had some of that here with that one or two guys who were completely personally challenged by the general apathy/disdain for "Rise".

Oh, it goes back way before "Rise." When I first joined the board in 2007 and voiced right away that maybe the 2007 was kind of sucky just about everyone and their mom blasted me for not worshipping at the altar of the Latest Turtle Product™. Then a few months went by and everyone kind of turned around and went, "Eh. I guess it kind of was, wasn't it?" and things returned to normal. What's different now is that the sucky stuff comes out, people watch it, and a lot of them never have that realization and never return to normal. Because we're down to like the craziest, nuttiest of the fandom remotely in our age bracket still.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I've always found the loonier/more rabid the fan, the thinner the skin. Generally speaking. And boy it's been a bizarre fandom. If you don't like it now, go back 23 years when it was all angry old ladies banning everybody in between patting each other on the back about who wrote the best fanfic where a Mary Sue has sex or a baby with Raphael. I'll take now, even if the state of the "franchise" itself is considerably worse off than ever.

Yeah, I definitely missed that part or wasn’t paying attention. Wonder where those wild mamas are now. Gotta wonder how they felt about the PD Raphael.

I hardly remember what it was like here when I joined except for it being a bit more crowded and there being a lot of small fan projects.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

Yeah, I definitely missed that part or wasn’t paying attention. Wonder where those wild mamas are now. Gotta wonder how they felt about the PD Raphael.

A lot of them slinked over to create Stealthy Stories:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/stealthystories/

But that looks like at least the second, maybe third incarnation of it. And I doubt any of the OG ringleaders are still active (or even alive, in some cases).

I hardly remember what it was like here when I joined except for it being a bit more crowded and there being a lot of small fan projects.

It was like that everywhere in the early 2000s. Suddenly making and hosting websites was an easy thing to do and everybody was like supercharged with this kind of infectious creativity. The Drome and the rest of the pockets of fandom (TMNT-L, Mikey's TMNT, Under Manhattan, etc.) was no exception. It really was an amazing time to be a part of.