Am I the only one who...

[Janus Prospero]

Originally Posted by The Shelf

I agree, but I don't think it's necessary to live with each other in order to determine whether you can handle each other. Besides, if you marry someone after knowing them for years and later you want to leave them just because you can't bear their little bad habits (which is the only knowledge you stand to gain from living with them) then perhaps you were loving them for the wrong reasons to begin with? I guess that's ultimately my point: the only thing you gain out of living with someone that you can't gain without living with them is discovering what their living habits are. So I don't think your argument about knowing whether or not someone loves you before you get married has anything to do with living with them beforehand. And if you really do love someone, then you're not going to care what their living habits are like. So what do you stand to gain by living together before you get married? No matter which way I look at it, the costs outweigh the benefits, even excluding my own moral and religious beliefs.

Well to me there are really no costs, so I'm just reaping the benefits here. Living apart in such a relationship was very hard for me. I spent so much time away from home that it made living difficult. I'm the kind of person that needs his base of operations to function properly. And now that I live with my love it's like...I don't know...like I'm whole in every which way.

And I think there is more to it than just learning the person's bad habits. It's a big step living with another human being like that and it's good to make sure you're ready first.

Besides what if you find out that the person is completely looney-bin crazy and keeps bodies in their basement freezer? That's the kind of stuff you might not be able to figure out unless you live with them.

[jenna]

Originally Posted by Janus Prospero

Well to me there are really no costs, so I'm just reaping the benefits here. Living apart in such a relationship was very hard for me. I spent so much time away from home that it made living difficult. I'm the kind of person that needs his base of operations to function properly. And now that I live with my love it's like...I don't know...like I'm whole in every which way.

And I think there is more to it than just learning the person's bad habits. It's a big step living with another human being like that and it's good to make sure you're ready first.

Beautiful words. I agree wholeheartedly. Living with my hubby before we were engaged made me fall in love with him more.

It may not work for some people, but so long as it works for others I don't think it should be such a taboo subject - it's not right or wrong it's just appropriate for some and inappropriate for others.

[Garou]

The fact that they probably live together without being married didn't strike me as odd one second - it's common where I live, I can't think of anyone I know who didn't live together before getting maried...

And the chance of a divorce is higher? Never heard it before, but could be fun to investigate. To say it myself, it saved me from a lot of trouble with a guy, who turned out to be the (in my opinion) biggest idiot in the world! I can't imagine all the trouble I would have had, if I had to try and settle a divorce with him. So I think cohabiting is a good thing, but that's my opinion.

[Sewer Bull]

GOD DAMNIT.

They might be living together ("co-habiting", as you put it) but it doesn't mean they're having sex for breakfast, sex for lunch, sex for dinner and sex instead of five o'clock tea.

Seriously, I watched that flick and that thought has NOT even crossed my mind. MY mind, infested with dirty jokes and usually residing in a moral gutter.

I know couples living together before getting hitched who didn't/don't copulate at all. They just do the everyday chores and enjoy the freshly gained freedom from parents. But they don't have sex - as their willpower is strong enough.

So cut the crap.

[ardnealy]

Stop looking too closely into things. Kids who go see this movie wont be thinking that Casey and April are shacking up.

[Rooish]

In my statistics classes, the profs cannot hammer into our heads enough that CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION! Seriously, I think this is the most common logical flaw that occurs. In the world.

So people who live together before they are married are more likely to be divorced, say the statistics. So therefore we must automatically assume that their cohabitation caused their relationship to be less strong once they got married. Way to jump to conclusions! There may be other possibilities. The one that jumped immediately to my head was that getting married messed up a perfectly healthy cohabiting relationship (surely they were getting along while they were cohabiting, or else why would they want to get married?). That's a possibility, too, and just as valid IMO. And as someone else said, (sorry, I forget who), people who live together before marriage may just be the kind of people who are less likely to view marriage as a permanent contract that they shouldn't leave, even if the marriage is terrible. If they did, they would probably be puritanical enough to not live together before marriage.

The faulty logic of some people astounds me. It's like people who, for example, look at the statistics that homosexual youth are 3 times more likely to commit suicide than heterosexual youth, and therefore go, "Eureka! Homosexuality is a mental disorder!" When maybe homosexual youth are more likely to commit suicide because they've been discriminated against their whole lives?

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

Valid points, Roo. I never understood how a couple that lived together for years, sometimes even decades, would suddenly dissolve their relationship after they decided it was finally time to get hitched. Why? I don't get it.... Is it the pressure? By that I mean, do they suddenly feel that they have to measure up to... the ideal of marriage or something? Do they see marriage as a trap instead of a union?....

[bullet]

Originally Posted by Rooish

In my statistics classes, the profs cannot hammer into our heads enough that CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION!

right on. way too many people believe correlation = causation. reminds me of that ice cream and murder example.

[Jo Dawn]

Calm down people. Lol. Jeez.

I'll admit, I was surprised to see it. The again, there's a huge generational gap between me and the youngun's so...

I'll leave my thoughts at this: It surprised me. I was semi-disappointed with it (though that MAY just be because she lowered herself to Casey). Would I do it? Asked me a few years ago I would said vehemently NO. Now I'm not so sure. *ahem* Do I hate those that do it? No.

I dunno. But anyhow, don't burn this person because they were outraged. Some people have stricter morals, different morals than others. Live and let live, don't try to say they're wrong.

Because who knows... You may be.

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

Originally Posted by bullet

reminds me of that ice cream and murder example.

Care to elaborate, bullet?

[Scandia]

Wow everyone. Thanks for your replies. It is very interesting to see what everyone thought- as well as the fact that some people did not pay attention to it!

While appalled and outraged may be too strong, disappointed is certainly the word I should have used. I'm certainly not preaching- but there is no doubt I was disappointed. There are couples who do live in the same place without engaging in sexual relations- but that is not usually the reasons why couples cohabit. Sadly, often one member wants to get convenient sex while the other one is hoping that marriage will come soon.

And Scandia is a SHE, btw. My real name is the name of a literary character- a Swiss girl who liked goats.

[Aignatius]

I think it a valid question, and I didn't think of it until you mentioned it, Scandia.

For those who haven't read the Mirage comics, Casey was living with Gabriella, who was pregnant with someone else's baby, and then they got married, which says a lot about Casey's sense of integrity. He was willing to settle down with a woman whose child was not his. The story has a sad outcome, but afterward, Casey took on the upbringing of Shadow, Gabe's daughter. Guys who are like that are worth their weight in gold.

[Rooish]

Originally Posted by Kunoichi_Haruko

Valid points, Roo. I never understood how a couple that lived together for years, sometimes even decades, would suddenly dissolve their relationship after they decided it was finally time to get hitched. Why? I don't get it.... Is it the pressure? By that I mean, do they suddenly feel that they have to measure up to... the ideal of marriage or something? Do they see marriage as a trap instead of a union?....

Thanks, 'Ruko. I think it might be the pressure, or the formality of it. They don't really trust their abilities to make choices, I guess. Such as, they can't decide to make a lifetime commitment. Or they can't trust their ability to judge someone well enough to know that, if they were to get married and then move in with him/her, they could make a good decision without having to try living together before getting married.

Sorry if I was too harsh, there, guys ... I don't like moral judgments being made on people who aren't hurting anybody. That's just me. But then, I personally did not even notice Casey and April living together ... I thought it was obvious that they'd move in at some point, and I didn't really expect April to want to marry Casey because, as JD said, he's not good enough for her.

[Scandia]

I do agree with the integrity shown by Casey in that aspect. And that leads us to the aspect that they should have shown him having a good job- he deserves it and I see no reason in his character to not have one or want one.

Is anything ever said about the guy who sired Shadow (can't even call him a father- especially since that would compare him with Splinter)???

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by The Shelf

Here's an example as you requested. If you're living with someone for a year or two before you decide to get married, you'll wind up putting yourself in a lot of tempting situations to go a whole lot further than a simple kiss or hug here and there. If you don't fall into that temptation, then great, maybe things will turn out great for you after all; but if you do, then you're setting yourself up for failure.

So your telling me sex before marriage is setting yourself up for failure?

You know I was with a girl who believed in no sex before marriage and I told her I was cool with it. What the hell did I care right? Well who was it who wanted to have sex first? It was her. And every time after that as well. She was the sex freak not me.

Now before that when anyone had asked if we had yet and I told them no they were surprised. We had been together almost a year before we did. Most couples don't make it a month. And my roommate is an example he didn't make it half a year with his current g/f.

Now me and my X were both virgins so that works out. My roommate was his g/f wasn't so I don't know how that went down for him.

But sex before marriage does not set you up for failure. The people who divorce are insecure immature adults stuck in the high school days who don't understand what marriage is. It isn't hanging out with your girlfriend everyday it's alot more then that.

People who stay married are people who either actually loved one another and weren't just lusting for each other*And yeah lust can last for a long time* or stubborn people who either refuse to divorce because it's against their religion or just plain refuse. My X's Dad wanted a divorce and her Mom wouldn't let him. That's entrapment if you ask me.

[bullet]

Originally Posted by Kunoichi_Haruko

Care to elaborate, bullet?

it's a classic example that was brought up time and time again in stat classes that demonstrate how correlation doesn't equate causation.

studies apparently show that whenever ice cream consumption increases, murder rate increases. it shows a correlation, but not a causation...cuz weather is a third variable that causes an increase of both variables. heat waves generate increased aggression, leading to an increase in violent crimes. hot weather also leads to an increase in ice cream consumption. so although ice cream sales and murder rates show a correlation, there's no causation between them...if that made any sense, i prolly didn't do too great a job at explaining that.

[Spitfire]

God better not tell my roommate that. Or I better stay away from him he ate a whole gallon to himself last night.

[Kunoichi_Haruko]

Originally Posted by bullet

it's a classic example that was brought up time and time again in stat classes that demonstrate how correlation doesn't equate causation.

studies apparently show that whenever ice cream consumption increases, murder rate increases. it shows a correlation, but not a causation...cuz weather is a third variable that causes an increase of both variables. heat waves generate increased aggression, leading to an increase in violent crimes. hot weather also leads to an increase in ice cream consumption. so although ice cream sales and murder rates show a correlation, there's no causation between them...if that made any sense, i prolly didn't do too great a job at explaining that.

You did just fine, bullet. I see what you're saying. I've never heard of this correlation before. That's very interesting.

[gobo]

Originally Posted by Spitfire666xXxXx

The people who divorce are insecure immature adults stuck in the high school days who don't understand what marriage is. It isn't hanging out with your girlfriend everyday it's alot more then that.

This exemplifies why I believe it's not a good thing to shelter a child too much. If they are kept in the dark about slightly less than admirable situations all their pre-adult years, they will likely become these "insecure immature adults". Then, they are more apt to act out when the choice is their own. Plus, what is a clueless middle-schooler who wants to stay on everyone's good side going to do when pressured to do drugs?

Hey, stat-peeps... What's it called that you can roll an average 6-sided die six or even thirty-six times and not roll a six once?

[Sage Ninja]

Originally Posted by Jo Dawn

Calm down people. Lol. Jeez.

I'll admit, I was surprised to see it. The again, there's a huge generational gap between me and the youngun's so...

I'll leave my thoughts at this: It surprised me. I was semi-disappointed with it (though that MAY just be because she lowered herself to Casey). Would I do it? Asked me a few years ago I would said vehemently NO. Now I'm not so sure. *ahem* Do I hate those that do it? No.

I dunno. But anyhow, don't burn this person because they were outraged. Some people have stricter morals, different morals than others. Live and let live, don't try to say they're wrong.

Because who knows... You may be.

I will admit that personally, I am a bit saddened by the amount of cohabitation vs. actual marriage I am seeing in my age group (I'm in my early twenties BTW). I persoanlly have no interest in marrage at this point, got to much on my plate with being in college and work and paying rent and all that stuff, which is probably the mind set of many other my age as well. Its just that I've noticed alot of girls get into trouble in these situations. Alot of people I know when ever they have a boyfriend they move right in with each other, and end up with having kids and then not staying together. Then there are situatuions when some one has more than one child by diffrent partners and they are not together and they have to keep tract of parent of that child. I have a friend who has three children, each by diffrent fathers and she lived with all of them for many years before they broke it off...and now she gets alot of hassle from her other babies fathers. Now I'm not saying that this sort of situatuation couldn't happen with having more than one kid with diffrent fathers, when you don't cohabitate and are just in a realtionship and live in your own places; but from I have seen personally this sort of, more than one child by diffrent fathers (or mothers), is more common in coulples that cohabitated rather than those that didn't.

Now I'm not say that this a statistc truth or any thing. Its what I have persoanlly seen in the area that i live in. I want to stress that. So I hope I don't get flamed by making this observation.

BTW Jo Dawn, why did you feel disapointed? And why did you feel that April lowered herself?