The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom (Breath of the Wild 2)

[Prowler]

I really loved exploring and getting to know the world in BOTW.

But I didn't do every single sidequest. I beat the game some months ago and never picked it up again.

It was a very fun experience until the whole map got revealed. Then the magic was a bit gone.

I think BOTW suffers from the same issue as Mario Odyssey. Good games but not the Mario and Zelda games with the highest replay values. That being said I think BOTW truly was the next step for the Zelda series. I can't say the same for Odyssey and Mario. I liked Odyssey, but kept waiting for that moment of "WOW" that never came. The Galaxy games are still the spiritual sucessors to Mario 64. Odyssey had way too many mok s and over half of them weren't memorable or required much effort at all. Almost felt like glorified Korok Seeds. Plus the game didn't have a lot of worlds and New Donk City turned out to be smaller than it looked.

[Andrew NDB]

Someday I'll continue playing Mario Odyssey. I was having a good time until I got to the big dragon fight and then I kept dying like 30 times and gave up.

It wasn't bad. The Galaxy games absolutely were spiritual successors to Mario 64 but Odyssey felt perfectly fine as the spiritual successor of those games. I don't think in this day and age people around our ages will ever see a new Mario game and find any big "wow!" moments anymore. If anything, Nintendo will find unexpected new gimmicks for Mario that may impress. That seems to be their trajectory for Mario since forever now.

Replayability and Zelda never really went hand in hand, but that's really true of any game with strong RPG elements. Like, "Congratulations! You beat Breath of the Wild! Real quick, think about all the items and stats you raised up and quests you completed. Now imagine all of those things gone and doing them again, right now!" Eh... no.

[Leo656]

Yeah, that's why for me I don't dwell on "replay factor" because the only games I replay heavily are ones I can complete in a weekend at best. Like I played every Arkham game multiple times over earlier this year but I was doing a thing.

My most often-replayed games are by far wrestling games simply because I can play one for ten minutes or ten hours and make progress either way. It's always been that way for me. Conversely, I loved every second I spent playing Oblivion but am I ever gonna start it over from scratch and do another 200+ hours? Ehhhhhhhhh, I don't know. It's very daunting on its face, as you said.

[Prowler]

I mean...

I can imagine myself replaying the Mario Galaxy games ten years from now on. Just like I can still pick up and play Super Mario World and Super Mario Bros. 3 after all these years. But I can't imagine myself doing the same with Odyssey.

As for Zelda, I bought the 3DS remakes of Ocarina and Majora's some years ago. And I also replayed ALTTP many years ago. I don't think I'll do that with BOTW, since the experience it offers is something that can't be replicated on a 2nd run. After all there's only 4 dungeons in the game and they're rather meh. The game's selling points are the exploration of the massive overworld and the fact it's the first ever open world Zelda game. That's not gonna be as fun on a 2nd time I assume.

[Turo602]

In what way were the Galaxy games "spiritual successors" to Mario 64? They're way more linear in structure, especially the 2nd one compared to the sandbox levels of 64 and Sunshine. Odyssey is a return to that sandbox formula but feels more open-world in its progression because you're not constantly being removed from the level everytime you obtain a moon.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Turo602

In what way were the Galaxy games "spiritual successors" to Mario 64? They're way more linear in structure, especially the 2nd one compared to the sandbox levels of 64 and Sunshine. Odyssey is a return to that sandbox formula but feels more open-world in its progression because you're not constantly being removed from the level everytime you obtain a moon.

Hmm perhaps I should rephrase that.

Obviously Sunshine and Odyssey are also inspired by Mario 64. Sunshine clearly uses almost the same formula, but the game is just... not as good and fun as the others. I can't really explain what makes it my least favourite but it's just not as enjoyable as others. I remember playing it back in 2002-2003 and just thinking "eh good game, I guess". Didn't wow me like 64 and Galaxy did.

The Galaxy games are the best and most repayable 3D Mario games nowadays. Perhaps spiritual sucessors isn't the right term, but to me 3D Mario peaked with them. And even if they're rtager linear in comparison to Sunshine and Odyssey, it's not like they deviate from the Mario 64 formula either.

Odyssey just seems like they went for quantity over quality. I mean, you land on a new world, walk behind the balloon, pound the ground and catch a moon 30 seconds into the new world. That's not really challenging or memorable. About 70% of the moons you catch in the game are not very noteworthy. Instead they should have reduced the number of moons significantly and made more worlds. The Clouds world and the world where you fight the Dark Souls dragon are so small they feel almost like cut content.

I did like Odyssey, but I feel like it could have been even better. It definitely has the best gameplay of any 3D Mario game to date, and the 2D SMB wall and ground sections are pretty cool, but I think the game doesn't fully live up to its potential.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Turo602

In what way were the Galaxy games "spiritual successors" to Mario 64? They're way more linear in structure, especially the 2nd one compared to the sandbox levels of 64 and Sunshine. Odyssey is a return to that sandbox formula but feels more open-world in its progression because you're not constantly being removed from the level everytime you obtain a moon.

I think in the sense that the Galaxy games have Mario, are 3D, play like Mario 64, and, like Mario 64, don't really have a gimmick beyond "different planets!" which really isn't a gimmick as much as it is the setting.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I think in the sense that the Galaxy games have Mario, are 3D, play like Mario 64, and, like Mario 64, don't really have a gimmick beyond "different planets!" which really isn't a gimmick as much as it is the setting.

Also that. Sunshine has FLUDD as a gameplay mechanic. Odyssey has Cappy. Not a huge fan of FLUDD. Cappy is alright but I feel like that mechanic could have been done even better maybe.

[Turo602]

Originally Posted by Prowler

Hmm perhaps I should rephrase that.

Obviously Sunshine and Odyssey are also inspired by Mario 64. Sunshine clearly uses almost the same formula, but the game is just... not as good and fun as the others. I can't really explain what makes it my least favourite but it's just not as enjoyable as others. I remember playing it back in 2002-2003 and just thinking "eh good game, I guess". Didn't wow me like 64 and Galaxy did.

The Galaxy games are the best and most repayable 3D Mario games nowadays. Perhaps spiritual sucessors isn't the right term, but to me 3D Mario peaked with them. And even if they're rtager linear in comparison to Sunshine and Odyssey, it's not like they deviate from the Mario 64 formula either.

Odyssey just seems like they went for quantity over quality. I mean, you land on a new world, walk behind the balloon, pound the ground and catch a moon 30 seconds into the new world. That's not really challenging or memorable. About 70% of the moons you catch in the game are not very noteworthy. Instead they should have reduced the number of moons significantly and made more worlds. The Clouds world and the world where you fight the Dark Souls dragon are so small they feel almost like cut content.

I did like Odyssey, but I feel like it could have been even better. It definitely has the best gameplay of any 3D Mario game to date, and the 2D SMB wall and ground sections are pretty cool, but I think the game doesn't fully live up to its potential.

Linear stages isn't exactly a small deviation. That's a game defining difference, which was kind of the whole point of Odyssey. It was getting back to Mario 64's formula because the series had been getting closer and closer to their 2D roots with course based levels and a clear end goal as opposed to the open maps of 64 and Sunshine littered with various objectives to complete like beating a boss, collecting 8 red coins, or stomping on a stake to free a chain chomp, except the level doesn't just end there in Odyssey. So of course some moons will feel more arbitrary than others when you're getting them seconds apart from eachother because you're not just restarting the level and retreading the same ground just to accomplish some nearby task you could have just walked to without leaving the level.

The levels in Odyssey are much more expansive and filled with all sorts of secret and cryptic moons, linear style deviations, mini-games, challenges, bosses, and collectibles so the abundance of moons isn't really an issue for me. It's an open environment and so rather than have the game feel empty and directionless, you're constantly rewarded for exploring and using Mario's abilities. At the end of the day, these are collectathon games and they've always had a low ceiling for progression so kids can reach the ending and if that means sprinkling in some easy moons, I don't see the problem. It doesn't hurt the level design or make the game less fun when controlling Mario has never felt better. I also wouldn't call Cappy a gimmick, unless power ups in Mario games are considered gimmicky now...

I personally don't understand the hype of Mario 64. I guess for the time, it was an impressive game but there's been far better Mario games since then and even before it, yet a lot of people still swear it's the best Mario game ever. Having played it all the way through for the first time last year, it doesn't exactly hold up too well either as It can be a janky nightmare at times, especially in some of the later stages. I'm probably in the minority here, but I much prefer Sunshine. The setting, music, and visuals just completely propels the game for me and I never understood why people had issues with FLUDD. He expanded Mario's moveset and the abilities themselves were great.

But for as much nostalgia as I have for Mario Sunshine, even I can acknowledge that it's got quite its fair share of problems. I actually got to replay it earlier this year and while I had much more fun with it than Mario 64, Mario's movement is quite slippery feeling this time which can make certain obstacles a lot more nerve-racking, especially when you don't have FLUDD to fall back on. But there's also a handful of levels which are just complete f*cking garbage too and because of that, it's hard to call Sunshine a favorite of mine when there's just way better Mario games to choose from.

While I have no personal preference for what style Mario should be in 3D, what I do know, is that every 3D Mario game since Sunshine, with the exception of 3D Land, has become my favorite in the series before being dethroned by the next one. I've enjoyed just about every one of them for different reasons and they just keep getting better for me. I can't really think of any other series that I've felt that way about. Mario just works and is easy for anyone to pick up and understand without having to think too hard about it. It's just pure joy and I'd gladly replay any of them, which I have done already thanks to the Switch ports and I'm definitely going for Galaxy next sometime.

However, I do admit that I'm more hesitant to restart Odyssey and not because I wouldn't love to play it again, but because it's way too much of an undertaking and just like Breath of the Wild, Nintendo stupidly limited the saves to one profile and I'm not exactly looking forward to deleting my original save anytime soon. But otherwise, I would have probably replayed it by now.

[Andrew NDB]

Any tips for beating the dragon?

[Turo602]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Any tips for beating the dragon?

What are you struggling with specifically? He has a very typical boss pattern. Maybe don't stop moving, be quick, and give yourself plenty of distance for when he does his electric shock wave so you can have enough room to dodge them before you get too close to his head. Also, if you need more air time, you'll really want to master jumping off of Cappy by throwing him mid air and quickly diving towards him mid air to get another jump in and then dive again mid air just for some extra time before landing. That combo is really useful in general for traversal because it gives you lots of control in the air and stalls your falls.

[Andrew NDB]

I just beat him! Very pleased with that. It only took me about 3 tries this time and last time it was seriously about 30. This time in the big screen with the pro controller and last time was trying it handheld on the couch next to the wife while she was playing RDR2... I think that has a lot to do with it. Onto the last level, apparently.

[CyberCubed]

The game comes out tomorrow. I actually caved and bought it for $65 online (got it $10 cheaper as it's $69.99 plus tax coming out to nearly $75 which is insane).

This is the most amount of money I spent on a single game in about a decade. Since the last Zelda game came out nearly 7 years ago I made an exception. And all the reviews say it's better than Breath of the Wild and addresses some of the criticisms of the first game like lack of dungeons.

Man, it almost feels "weird" to spend real money again. I actually forgot what it felt like.

[Icebot]

The game just came out! I started playing it, I played for about an hour so far, it’s really beautiful and I’m enjoying it!

[Andrew NDB]

In theory it will be waiting for me when I get home today.

[Dpooly84]

Just picked up the collectors edition. Beautiful game, can't wait to really dig in.

[Last Ronin]

I just bought it with severe case of FOMO....I went to Walmart and thought I wouldn't find one but the game is out in full force with a ton of copies out. I've never seen so many on display, Hell, I had to wait a couple of weeks to get Breath of the Wild.

But what I really want is the special edition Tears of the Kingdom Switch.

Also just read about a speed runner who beat the game in 90 minutes. Like I don't know why it annoyed me to high Hell. Everyone is free to play how they want but the fact that on the first day it comes out you speedrun the damn thing? I just find speedrunning games annoying I know it shouldn't but it does...oh well.

[CyberCubed]

I can't imagine playing a new game for the first time and rushing through it. For an older game you already played through a million times? Sure, but a brand new experience should not be rushed, you're basically just ruining a game for yourself.

[CyberCubed]

I only have 1 dungeon left in the main story now, I decided to go to the Goron area last this time (in Breath of the Wild it was the second area I visited after the Zora's).

Funny if you just follow the main story the game actually isn't that long, maybe 15 hours tops, it's doing everything else or just exploring that makes it a 100+ hour game. I already activated all the towers so I see the full map, and I'm almost done viewing all of Zelda's memories (same as the first game, you have to find 19 of them in the overworld to watch cutscenes of what Zelda is doing).

I actually did all 120 Shrines back in Breath of the Wild, I'm not sure if I'll seek them all out this time around though.

[Andrew NDB]

Mostly my daughter has been glued to it. She's mostly amazed that if you have a BotW saved game on your Switch, TotK retains horses in your stable.

Do the dungeons FEEL like real Zelda dungeons? I'm not super keen that it seems like it may be "Shrines: The Sequel!"