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Old 09-22-2022, 04:50 PM   #21
IndigoErth
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“He can just say, ‘I decide that this should be declassified,’ and it’s declassified,” McClanahan said.
But guaranteed that actually has to be communicated TO other people, those who see to it that those documents are actually changed in status within the record keeping, not him just thinking it to himself, no one else involved to see to it after he gives that 'order,' and that's somehow enough. If anyone thinks that is okay then they have no respect for this nation.

Though it remains to be seen that they were actually declassified at all. Because that photo from Mar-a-lago of a bunch of spread out documents still covered with the words "top secret" and others blanked out in the image say otherwise.

Quote:
However, presidents generally follow an informal protocol when declassifying documents, Richard Immerman, a historian and professor at Temple University, told VERIFY.

First, the president will consult all departments and agencies that have an interest in a classified document. Those departments or agencies then provide their assessment as to whether the document should stay classified for national security reasons. If there is a dispute among the agencies, they debate, but the president ultimately makes the decision on declassification, Immerman explained.

When documents are declassified, they are reviewed line-by-line. In many cases, certain words, sentences and paragraphs remain redacted, even if the document is declassified, Immerman said.
Yeah, I know he isn't one who is going to act professionally about anything, but it's certainly why the nation shouldn't be run by a reality show host.





Quote:
https://www.archives.gov/isoo/faqs

How can I identify Classified National Security Information?

There should be a classification marking on the top and bottom of every page of the document. Very old documents may have the markings only on the top of the first page. In more recent documents, individual paragraphs may also be marked with markings like “(S)” for Secret or “(C)” for Confidential.

The document should not be marked as declassified. A declassification marking should look like an official stamp that indicates the name and office of the person who authorized the declassification action. A copy of a declassified document from the National Archives and Records Administration should include a marking that includes a project number starting with “NND” or “NW.”
Are the visible Top Secret documents in the image marked as declassified? Don't look like it to me.

Last edited by IndigoErth; 09-22-2022 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 09-22-2022, 05:05 PM   #22
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Man, an' I seen homies get fired for taking home scotch tape and printer paper from work.
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Old 09-22-2022, 05:20 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by IndigoErth View Post
But guaranteed that actually has to be communicated TO other people, those who see to it that those documents are actually changed in status within the record keeping, not him just thinking it to himself, no one else involved to see to it after he gives that 'order,' and that's somehow enough. If anyone thinks that is okay then they have no respect for this nation.
Just because you want there to be all these protocols -- or any protocol -- in place for presidential declassification doesn't will that into being.

Quote:
Are the visible Top Secret documents in the image marked as declassified? Don't look like it to me.
They don't need to be marked as declassified. A President saying, "All the documents I've brought to Mar A Lago are hereby declassified" covers that. You don't believe he told that to anybody? Well, the burden of proving he didn't say that is on you, not him to prove that he did. Because again, no protocol.
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Old 09-22-2022, 05:44 PM   #24
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Right... tell that to the special master who is requesting the proof, that his lawyers aren't giving, as the burden definitely looks like it's on him given his actions are being investigated.

Did you really just take religious style "burden on you to prove it's not!" nuttery and apply it to this...

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Man, an' I seen homies get fired for taking home scotch tape and printer paper from work.
Right? Little person does something and it's a big deal real fast. Friend of my mom once even got let go after she asked for a 50 cent raise.
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Old 09-22-2022, 05:51 PM   #25
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Also, as a general rule I am not comfortable with even the idea that "There is no protocol regarding what Is and Isn't Classified and how it can be Declassified and by Whom." Common sense would suggest there in fact be some kind of protocol regarding that kind of thing... right?

......Right?!
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Old 09-22-2022, 06:09 PM   #26
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Also, as a general rule I am not comfortable with even the idea that "There is no protocol regarding what Is and Isn't Classified and how it can be Declassified and by Whom." Common sense would suggest there in fact be some kind of protocol regarding that kind of thing... right?
Oh no, there is. Just not when it comes to the President himself, solo, declassifying documents. It's one of the very few "anything goes, anytime" powers a president actually has and this has always been the case.

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Did you really just take religious style "burden on you to prove it's not!" nuttery and apply it to this...
But legally speaking that's exactly where we're at.
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Old 09-22-2022, 06:54 PM   #27
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I'll trust you since there's an entire system set up to keep people like me from ever being President, and so I'll never know for myself how it works.

...Although, not too long ago there was an entire system set up to keep people like TRUMP from ever being President, too, and look how that turned out. So maybe I still have a shot!
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Old 09-23-2022, 03:17 AM   #28
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Super simple: no protocol. That's your answer.

https://www.verifythis.com/article/n...5-671dc9c6f7ec
I'm getting a big fat access denied doesn't exist error on that link.
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Old 09-23-2022, 12:45 PM   #29
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I'm getting a big fat access denied doesn't exist error on that link.
Must not be available elsewhere, I see it and will copy/paste:

Quote:
Yes, the president can declassify documents, but there isn’t a set protocol they have to follow

Former President Trump claimed documents found at Mar-a-Lago were “all declassified.” We explain why sitting presidents can declassify documents and how it works.


Author: Megan Loe
Published: 3:05 PM EDT August 18, 2022
Updated: 6:24 PM EDT August 23, 2022
Facebook Twitter

FBI agents took 11 sets of classified records from former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate during a search on Aug. 8, court records revealed.

In a post on Truth Social, his social media platform, Trump later claimed that the documents were “all declassified.” Kash Patel, who served as chief of staff for the acting defense secretary during the Trump administration, also claimed that Trump had declassified the documents.

While it still may not be legal for Trump to possess declassified documents from his presidency, many VERIFY readers, including Beverly and Carole, asked whether the president can declassify documents while in office.
THE QUESTION

Can the president declassify documents?
THE SOURCES

U.S. Department of the Navy v. Egan
Executive Order 13526
Kel McClanahan, executive director of the National Security Counselors, a nonprofit public interest law firm
Richard Immerman, Edward J. Buthusiem Family Distinguished Faculty Fellow in History at Temple University
The New York Times, et al., v. Central Intelligence Agency

THE ANSWER


This is true.

Yes, the president can declassify documents while in office, but there isn’t a set protocol they have to follow.

Sign up for the VERIFY Fast Facts daily Newsletter!
WHAT WE FOUND

The U.S. classification system has three levels: top secret, secret and confidential.

“That is based on the level of damage that its release would cause to the national security of the United States,” Kel McClanahan, executive director of the National Security Counselors, said. “When you classify a document, that means that only people with a security clearance equal to the classification or higher can read it.”

A sitting U.S. president has wide-ranging authority to classify and declassify certain documents, but former presidents do not have authority over classification and declassification.

Current presidents can classify documents as long as they can “make a plausible argument that it is related to national security.” On the other hand, the president “doesn’t have to give any reason for declassifying” information, according to McClanahan.

“He can just say, ‘I decide that this should be declassified,’ and it’s declassified,” McClanahan said.

A 2009 executive order directs the head of a government agency that originally deemed information classified to oversee its declassification, and sets some rules for that process. But those protocols outlined in the executive order don’t apply to the president, McClanahan said.

However, presidents generally follow an informal protocol when declassifying documents, Richard Immerman, a historian and professor at Temple University, told VERIFY.

First, the president will consult all departments and agencies that have an interest in a classified document. Those departments or agencies then provide their assessment as to whether the document should stay classified for national security reasons. If there is a dispute among the agencies, they debate, but the president ultimately makes the decision on declassification, Immerman explained.

More from VERIFY: No, Florida Gov. DeSantis didn’t defend FBI Mar-a-Lago search on ‘Hannity’

When documents are declassified, they are reviewed line-by-line. In many cases, certain words, sentences and paragraphs remain redacted, even if the document is declassified, Immerman said.

The Supreme Court determined in its 1988 decision on Department of the Navy v. Egan that the president’s power over classified information comes from executive authority granted by Article II, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution, which says, in part, that the “President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States.”

“His authority to classify and control access to information bearing on national security and to determine whether an individual is sufficiently trustworthy to occupy a position in the Executive Branch that will give that person access to such information flows primarily from this constitutional investment of power in the President, and exists quite apart from any explicit congressional grant,” the Supreme Court decision reads.

Though there aren’t specific protocols that the president must follow to declassify a document, federal courts have ruled that they will “refuse to recognize what they consider to be an inference of declassification,” McClanahan said.

The U.S. Second Circuit Court of Appeals wrote in a 2020 decision about whether statements made by then-President Trump declassified the existence of a CIA program that “declassification, even by the president, must follow established procedures.”

If a document is declassified, that doesn’t automatically mean it can be shared widely, either. For example, nuclear information – which is generally classified – is also protected by the federal Atomic Energy Act of 1954, McClanahan explained.

The Washington Post reported the FBI searched Mar-a-Lago for “nuclear documents,” among other classified information.

“Because [nuclear information] has this dual protection, even if you declassify a nuclear document, you cannot disseminate it because it’s still what’s called Restricted Data,” McClanahan said.

“So to the extent that he [Trump] had any nuclear information in there, declassification would not help him in the slightest, because he would still be disseminating restricted data or moving Restricted Data,” he added.

There are other federal laws in place that bar a president from taking government records, whether they are classified or declassified. Still, breaking those laws – or most other laws – doesn’t automatically disqualify someone from becoming president, because of the simple presidential qualifications that are outlined in the U.S. Constitution.
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Old 09-23-2022, 06:10 PM   #30
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He should've declassified alien stuff.

Everyone, even the life-angry, would've been behind that info.
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Old 09-23-2022, 06:27 PM   #31
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bingo. unless it's so scary they think we are not ready for it.
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Old 09-23-2022, 06:46 PM   #32
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The world isn't ready to find out that Jiffy-Pop came from outer space. We're simply not ready to deal with that.
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Old 09-23-2022, 06:48 PM   #33
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It'd be a nice pulling off of the band-aid, though.
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Old 10-13-2022, 06:41 PM   #34
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Trump subpoenaed to testify…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-63251303
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Old 10-13-2022, 09:30 PM   #35
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bingo. unless it's so scary they think we are not ready for it.
If that's even remotely the truth, then we'd already be dead or worse.
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Old 11-16-2022, 12:45 PM   #36
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Trump Files Lawsuit to Avoid Jan. 6 Committee Subpoena

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/ca...11/id/1096042/

People like to compare Hillary’s trial to Trump, that Hillary was so stunning and brave to testify but we all know (D)’s get special treatment in the courtroom.

You think Trump would get a fair, unbiased trial?

Now J6 committe weighs next steps after Trump defied J6 committee and failed to comply with subpoena

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/jan-6...4db1799fb1/amp

Wonder what happens with the J6 committee now that he’s announced he’s running in 2024
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Old 11-16-2022, 01:00 PM   #37
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An assassination attempt before 2024 isn't out of the realm of possibility.
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