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Old 10-13-2022, 03:11 PM   #41
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So because "free speech", people should be allowed to very loudly and repeatedly lie, even after those lies have incited other people towards violence and harassment, because "lying and spreading disinformation is a victimless crime"? Bullsh*t.
IIIiiiiii don't think that is actually what anyone is saying....
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Old 10-13-2022, 03:19 PM   #42
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It is literally what at least two people here are in fact saying. "Free speech, he can say what he wants and so can the idiots who believe his very obvious lies. Whatever happens after the fact as a result cannot be mitigated, regulated, or penalized in any way whatsoever, Because Free Speech." That is very much what they are saying, and they're only saying it because they love the cut of this one specific asshole's gib. "He makes the pink-hairs salty, so he's A-OK by me!" That's 100% of it, man.

Nah. I've played that "Free Speech" card more than anyone here over the years but always with the caveat that 1. People still have a responsibility to not lie or otherwise be scumbags, and 2. All actions - and words - carry consequences.

His consequence is that he's now found to be legally liable for inciting dumb people towards harassment and violence. Good, he deserves way worse but hitting people like him in the wallet is the only way to hurt them because they don't have any humanity or a conscience and so trying to pauper them is the only effective punishment. He'd still be getting off light, quite frankly.
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Old 10-13-2022, 03:26 PM   #43
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Hadn't heard about it until now, but apparently a father of a Sandy Hook kid killed, and was among the parents who had a defamation suit against Jones, ended is own life back in 2019. That would be heart wrenching for anyone to deal with such a loss, but then to have some media personality dumping truckloads of salt into the wound, ensuring it can't heal because the attention the conspiracies give him are too profitable... There are no words.

I'm glad he's not getting away scott free, though there is no punishment great enough for a twisted MF'er driving conspiracies to profit off of people's immense pain. Maybe the rest of life spent in an old-time asylum, shut off from the world, and hooked up to electrodes three times a day. There aren't words strong enough to properly describe the disgusting depths of his actions, because that is some SERIOUS mental illness and 100% lack of empathy and morals to do that kind of s*** and be able to still live with yourself and sleep at night. There is a point to which a right, including free speech, can be abused, and by supremely awful, psychopathic people who need to gtfo this planet, yet hide behind their "right" and avoid getting bitch slapped to Pluto like they aught to. Free speech never guaranteed that you won't be or can't be if normal humanity finds your bulls*** going too far.
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Old 10-13-2022, 03:33 PM   #44
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Yep. Combined with a whole bunch of "Who is more foolish, The Fool or the fool who follows him?" going on, to boot. Hard to even say, but I'd honestly argue that his disciples are worse. He's just a con artist, but they're devout, which means they believe in him, which means they're thick as bricks.

Basically, He's evil, They're stupid, and it's a pick-'em as to which is actually "worse" or more damaging in the grand scheme of things. Real chicken-egg stuff.
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Old 10-13-2022, 03:50 PM   #45
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But can you really be slandered/libeled/damaged to the tune of millions of dollars needed for you to be made whole again... if you're not so much as even mentioned by name in the offending 24 minutes of material? Like, not even once?

This is the part I'm a bit stuck on.

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Old 10-13-2022, 06:27 PM   #46
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Seeing as most news reports on this case have used the word “repeatedly” in regards to Jones’ push that Sandy Hook was fake, I think the 24 minutes you talk about isn’t the be all and end all of the rhetoric being considered.

Sorry, I’m completely with Leo on this one, when you’re in the media or are extremely well known, what you say and do can have massive influence. Free speech yes, but not free from consequences.

Why do celebs promote products? And while the actual quote will never be known, one of the earliest examples of similar behaviour was King Henry II’s utterance about Thomas Beckett which led to four of his knights murdering the priest the following day. The king never ordered them to do it, but took his words to mean that. And so with Alex Jones, when dumb****s listen to his ranting lies, a small proportion are inevitably going to do dumb**** things as a result.

The one thing we will agree on is the actual pay out level ruled upon…
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Old 10-13-2022, 06:37 PM   #47
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But can you really be slandered/libeled/damaged to the tune of millions of dollars needed for you to be made whole again... if you're not so much as even mentioned by name in the offending 24 minutes of material? Like, not even once?

This is the part I'm a bit stuck on.
Again, the point is not to whether or not it's entirely "fair", the point is that when a person misbehaves the only way to punish them is to hit them so hard that they feel it. It's not about equity, it's about punishment. And fining a rich person a "reasonable" or "fair" amount teaches them no lesson because they just shrug it off. They only feel the sting when you completely ruin and pauper them. So that's what you do.

It's not about whether the man committed a quantifiable $500 million worth of slander, it's about making sure he feels the weight of punishment and also to send a warning to anyone who would try and pick up his baton. "Don't bother, here's what happens."

Like, what happens if they only fine him $4 million? Nothing happens, he just screams louder. Leave him with nothing, he crawls back under his rock for good, chastened and humiliated.

He's not a legitimate journalist or investigator or whistle-blower, he's not asking legitimate questions or furthering any legitimate narratives. He's a simple carny sh*t-stirrer, a troll, and a con man. When a human being serves no productive use and is basically a tumor with a mouth, you remove the cancer, you don't tolerate it and argue that the tumor has a right to poison everything it touches simply because it exists. You get rid of it by any means necessary. It's not like we're talking about an actual human being, here.
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Old 10-13-2022, 08:24 PM   #48
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I hate the left wing narrative as much as anyone. but can't beleive some folk are calling this guy a hero.

he is clearly either nuts, or using the conspiracy to feul energy into his own show. haven't the sandy hook parents suffered enough? he's not helping any by doing any of this.

If you want to keep your guns, fine, but this isn't the way to go about it. the tradgedy happened. it should never have happened, but it did. learn from it, mourn, move on, and try to figure out a way to better prevent any, god forbid, future ones. the red flags with most of these lunatics was already there...but most where ignored.
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Old 10-13-2022, 09:29 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Andrew NDB View Post
But can you really be slandered/libeled/damaged to the tune of millions of dollars needed for you to be made whole again... if you're not so much as even mentioned by name in the offending 24 minutes of material? Like, not even once?

This is the part I'm a bit stuck on.
Yeah... that's where I'm at too.
I mean - usually people win libel or slander cases because it costs them jobs or social clout, etc. These people didn't lose jobs or life opportunities because of Alex Jones.

And what they did lose, they lost because of other people who were NOT Alex Jones.

So I can see an "emotional damage" judgement or something like that, but the financial awards for this were as if Alex Jones did the killing and the maiming that changed these people's lives. Society made him the villain and he'll be irrevocably changed for life financially for talking, and that's nonsense.
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Old 10-14-2022, 03:50 AM   #50
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Society made him the villain and he'll be irrevocably changed for life financially for talking, and that's nonsense.
Hitler did a lot of talking too... loathe I am to drag Nazis into a discussion, but words influence people. Some of the most despicable people in history were charismatic intelligent folks using words to influence the dumb masses around them with subtle persuasion and false statement. There's no difference here with Alex Jones, except for the fact as Leo put it, he's a dumbass low level carny ****-stirrer taking advantage of gullibility.
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Old 10-14-2022, 03:51 AM   #51
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So I can see an "emotional damage" judgement or something like that, but the financial awards for this were as if Alex Jones did the killing and the maiming that changed these people's lives. Society made him the villain and he'll be irrevocably changed for life financially for talking, and that's nonsense.
But no one was even aware Jones said that until years later when the Hillary campaign trotted those 24 minutes out. Because only the crazies were even listening to whatever platform he was saying that on. What is the emotional damage?
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Old 10-14-2022, 03:57 AM   #52
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But no one was even aware Jones said that until years later when the Hillary campaign trotted it out. Because only the crazies were even listening to whatever platform he was saying that on. What is the emotional damage?
This article suggests the harrassment and continuation of the lie started and was going on way before Hillary's campaign trotted it out as you say. Sounds like it perpetuated from the moment the original lies went out in 2012... mostly at the behest of Alex Jones.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/29/u...andy-hook.html
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Old 10-15-2022, 08:27 AM   #53
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Meet Maya Gamble, the judge who just ordered Alex Jones to pay $4.1 Million in damages

https://i.imgur.com/InX90RQ.png?1
Funny thing, I was a registered democrat when I started following Alex Jones during the Bush years. I bet most of his followers are and this goes to show how much the democrats have changed. Sorry, some of us don't think Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK (or at least he wasn't alone), and that 9/11 happened the way they said it did.

Anyway, I hope this gives him arsenal for appeals.
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Old 10-15-2022, 10:32 AM   #54
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Hitler did a lot of talking too... loathe I am to drag Nazis into a discussion, but words influence people. Some of the most despicable people in history were charismatic intelligent folks using words to influence the dumb masses around them with subtle persuasion and false statement. There's no difference here with Alex Jones, except for the fact as Leo put it, he's a dumbass low level carny ****-stirrer taking advantage of gullibility.
Ehhhhh, that's a rough example man. But I see a point there in it somewhere.... Let's roll with it and just move into the area where your point is 100% on the money - I'd still say the payouts were outlandish and a result of projected vengeance or projected anger.

Of course in the wrong crowd your point is dangerous because you used f'n Hitler - a character that we aren't supposed to socially give any caveat too; but as far as the payout is concerned Alex Jones isn't f'n Hitler, dude. Actually now that I think about it, this plays to my point about using Jones as a figurehead - now to compare his charismatic nonsense it's "Alex Jones, like the most despicable people like Hitler, use language..."

So no matter how you look at it, I'm back to that it's a nonsense comparison. We wind up comparing guys like Alex Jones to f'n Adolph Hitler. Now sit back and watch the deeper forum mouth-breathers come crawling out with their pseudo-intellectual nonsense born of only that comparison. Let's not feed and catalyze the peasant @$$wipes through comparison-error, dude.

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Originally Posted by Andrew NDB View Post
But no one was even aware Jones said that until years later when the Hillary campaign trotted those 24 minutes out. Because only the crazies were even listening to whatever platform he was saying that on. What is the emotional damage?
This is difficult to address because it falls into that typically bull$#!( "well you don't know, it's not you" sort of explanation. But I think the short of it is that you want to trigger your sense of empathy for a couple of parents who no longer have their child around and what emotions can be stirred up from hearing some of that $#!(.

Last edited by IMJ; 10-15-2022 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 11-19-2022, 03:09 AM   #55
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These are also defamation cases. So he's not being sued for encouraging his audience of insane idiots to go harass the families of the Sandy Hook victims he's being sued for lying that they were 'crisis actors'. The fact that they've been harassed and threatened for years is the consequence of his lies.
So what about all the lies of the COVID vaccine? The amount of lies about it preventing transmission and defamation of those who didn't get it were demonized as selfish grandma killers. Leading some pressured to get it (with life-altering adverse effects), or those refusing, leading to joblessness, prohibition to attending public functions/travel, and being socially ostracized.

According to your logic, where's their just compensation for the many millions who refused getting the COVID vaccines?

At least with Alex Jones, he didn't have complete knowledge of the Sandy Hook situation since he wasn't directly involved, but in the COVID vaccine situation, the drug companies knew since they were selling their own product to the masses. So the latter is even a far greater crime since the drug companies had first-hand knowledge.

Last edited by Refractive Reflections; 11-19-2022 at 03:43 AM. Reason: Spelling and Grammar corrections
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