What do you think about this guy's opinion on the "Battke of the Bands" Arc?

[ryu238]

https://www.reddit.com/r/TMNT/commen...going/hceaklb/
"I suspect that most any writer of one of your cites would have handled the situation differently. Like having Bebop perform, and show themselves to be villains, by cheating. Or not being coordinated with their bandmates. Or trying their best, but not being as good as the other group. Anything but what occurred, where the universe bent to show that the characters are morally right, because the author can't see the other side as sympathetic. And portrays the heroes as so damn good, even the villains bow before their talent. And the heroes do nothing related to good-sportmanship, like point out that the competition has rules, and that by not allowing them to play, the crowd is violating that rule. They take the victory without a second thought."

I saw issue 117, didn't they just decide that it wasn't worth it?

[ChosenOne]

A writer, any writer, who decides to portray IDW Bebop and Rocksteady as declining to engage in violence under the flimsiest of pretexts just isn't worth their salt, IMO. That is something so out of character, it's ridiculous. Which is to say, I agree. Campbell seems to lack any notion of how conflict - violent or otherwise - works. Everyone just gets along. Because. For reasons. Smart money says she even floated the idea of having B&R join the big friendly circlejerk at some point and was promptly shot down, which is the only reason why Leo still tells Karai that everyone else but them is welcome at the dojo.

[hypered1]

Originally Posted by ryu238

https://www.reddit.com/r/TMNT/commen...going/hceaklb/
"I suspect that most any writer of one of your cites would have handled the situation differently. Like having Bebop perform, and show themselves to be villains, by cheating. Or not being coordinated with their bandmates. Or trying their best, but not being as good as the other group. Anything but what occurred, where the universe bent to show that the characters are morally right, because the author can't see the other side as sympathetic. And portrays the heroes as so damn good, even the villains bow before their talent. And the heroes do nothing related to good-sportmanship, like point out that the competition has rules, and that by not allowing them to play, the crowd is violating that rule. They take the victory without a second thought."

I saw issue 117, didn't they just decide that it wasn't worth it?

Bebop decided that it wasn't worth trying to compete with Jennika's band, but Rocksteady took some convincing from Bebop and Natsu to backdown from the competition.

It's pretty clear that the person who wrote all of that hasn't actually read the issue (and probably not many since #101) and is just regurgitating what they've read elsewhere that fits in with the narrative they've decided is the 'correct' one.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Originally Posted by hypered1

It's pretty clear that the person who wrote all of that hasn't actually read the issue (and probably not many since #101) and is just regurgitating what they've read elsewhere that fits in with the narrative they've decided is the 'correct' one.

What are you talking about? What that person described is exactly what happened in the comic. It's been a whole lotta that for over 15 issues now.

[hypered1]

Originally Posted by Zog The Magnificent

What are you talking about? What that person described is exactly what happened in the comic. It's been a whole lotta that for over 15 issues now.

As I said in my previous comment, it was Bebop and Natsu who decide they wouldn't compete.
The person on reddit was trying to say that it was the crowd and/or the turtles that wouldn't let them play which isn't the case at all. Sally did tell them to leave the club but that was after Rocksteady began threatening to start a fight.

Either the reddit person was incorrectly repeating what they've only heard about the issue or they've actually read it and they're being deliberately disingenuous with the facts to twist them into something sounds far worse than the truth.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by hypered1

(...) being deliberately disingenuous with the facts to twist them into something sounds far worse than the truth.

Pssh, that tactic is unheard of in our day and age.

[neatoman]

What do I think about this arc? It is incredibly stupid, anti-climactic and poorly written.

Most of the characters who participate are uninteresting or poorly conceived, the stakes are laughably low, it includes a confusing yet pointless time travel element and it doesn't really go anywhere. We are told that it (somehow) lead to a nicer future but they already averted the really bad scenario before the competition was even proposed. And if the new future is somehow set in stone because of this, that would just be boring (not that I think it is, Sophie's replacement will most likely just contradict that particular future anyway). Oh, and yes, the conclusion does in fact require the reader to accept that Bebop and Rocksteady would act out of character just to allow it to even happen in the first place.

It is a dumb story that is part of a dumb arc built on a dumb premise and features dumb characters. It is easily the worst story in the IDW continuity so far.

[lonewarrior20]

i think it was ok. i enjoy the turtles interacting with others and they helped find band members. how many here have played d&d? i think sophies writing is more attuned to her playing as the dungeon master, thats why i think she's mainly focused on enlarging the world by having as many characters as possible. we're finding out their stories and yes she tends to tell it slowly but to me it's been building, just not in the way some people want it to be. i still think it's better than some of the past stories from other tmnt iterations.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Originally Posted by hypered1

As I said in my previous comment, it was Bebop and Natsu who decide they wouldn't compete.
The person on reddit was trying to say that it was the crowd and/or the turtles that wouldn't let them play which isn't the case at all. Sally did tell them to leave the club but that was after Rocksteady began threatening to start a fight.

Either the reddit person was incorrectly repeating what they've only heard about the issue or they've actually read it and they're being deliberately disingenuous with the facts to twist them into something sounds far worse than the truth.

Um, Jennika plays, Bebop and Rocksteady both act out of character and don't end up competing, and then when he protests, they get kicked out of the club without getting to play, then leave without a fight. Nothing in the original account contradicts the events of the comic, and everything that was said was entirely within the spirit of what happens. Nothing about it is "deliberately disingenuous." The points you take issue with almost seem like nitpicking at this point.

As for the arc itself, it was one of the absolute dumbest things TMNT has ever done. Every problem it has has already been desribed in great detail on the other issue threads, but I think the easiest way to see why it failed is that they tried to do a Battle of the Bands, a story that requires sound, in a print medium. There was never any chance of a real payoff even if both sides did compete. And even if they did, all that would happen would be that they would take 5 extra pages to tell us that Jennika won and we'd have to take their word for it since we wouldn't be able to hear any of it anyways.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by lonewarrior20

i think it was ok. i enjoy the turtles interacting with others and they helped find band members. how many here have played d&d? i think sophies writing is more attuned to her playing as the dungeon master, thats why i think she's mainly focused on enlarging the world by having as many characters as possible. we're finding out their stories and yes she tends to tell it slowly but to me it's been building, just not in the way some people want it to be. i still think it's better than some of the past stories from other tmnt iterations.

We're not playing a game here, we're reading a comic book, there is a fundamental difference since a comic book is all about story and a game really only has story to contextualize the player actions. If this was an RPG I could just say "This Battle of the Bands side-quest sucks ass" and just drop it for the Burnow Island side-quest instead, but it's not a game and as such the Battle of the Bands is what we got. A game designer and a comic book writer's work are not interchangeable, try to write a comic book like a game and it's probably going to stink.

And adding a bunch of new characters would be fine if they were actually good characters. Despite being two dozen issues in I can't really tell what the personalities of most of these new characters even are. The only things I know about Sheena is that she's embarrassed that she lost her hair and is in a band, which is really lame considering she's meant to be the new love interest of what's ostensibly one of the main characters (well, main character until some writer gets bored of the novelty of a female turtle and just kind of forgets about her that is). The Weasels do have some semblance of a personality but it's all kind of just the same personality and it's extremely shallow, they just seem to be there to be "cute".

I'm sorry, but very little of this is good. Maybe the art is but the writing? Hell no. The plot is slow, the twists awkward, the pay-off poor, the set-up random, the characters weak, the setting constrained and the premise paper thin.

[lonewarrior20]

Originally Posted by Zog The Magnificent

Um, Jennika plays, Bebop and Rocksteady both act out of character and don't end up competing, and then when he protests, they get kicked out of the club without getting to play, then leave without a fight. Nothing in the original account contradicts the events of the comic, and everything that was said was entirely within the spirit of what happens. Nothing about it is "deliberately disingenuous." The points you take issue with almost seem like nitpicking at this point.

As for the arc itself, it was one of the absolute dumbest things TMNT has ever done. Every problem it has has already been desribed in great detail on the other issue threads, but I think the easiest way to see why it failed is that they tried to do a Battle of the Bands, a story that requires sound, in a print medium. There was never any chance of a real payoff even if both sides did compete. And even if they did, all that would happen would be that they would take 5 extra pages to tell us that Jennika won and we'd have to take their word for it since we wouldn't be able to hear any of it anyways.

actually, idws bebop has been a bit of a quitter. look how he was on their side comic. also i think people seem to forget the whole reason why lita showed up from the future. it wasn't just about jennika forming a band, it was the turtles and karai burying the hatchet before everyone killed each other in an endless eye for an eye revenge. it was about letting go of the past and moving forward to a new day of possibilities.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Originally Posted by lonewarrior20

actually, idws bebop has been a bit of a quitter. look how he was on their side comic. also i think people seem to forget the whole reason why lita showed up from the future. it wasn't just about jennika forming a band, it was the turtles and karai burying the hatchet before everyone killed each other in an endless eye for an eye revenge. it was about letting go of the past and moving forward to a new day of possibilities.

But it wasn't about that, not really. It was about getting to show how awesome Jennika is, and to give a spotlight to all of Sophie's new OCs while we slice-of-life it up for 2 years straight. The future stuff was just a big distraction to hide the fact that this story had no real reason to exist and justify it with something that sounds cool at first, but is really just window dressing to justify what the writer actually wants to talk about. And really, even if Sophie wanted to actually focus on what is ostensibly the main plot thread of this story, burying the hatchet once and for all with the Foot Clan, was a Battle of the Bands really the only way to do that? It just had to be a battle of the bands? There wasn't literally anything more interesting that could have been used as a vehicle to deliver that story with?

[Leo656]

Kinda makes me glad nobody reads this book, or the TMNT brand might be an even bigger joke than it already is right now.

The gymnastics performances by this arc's defenders would make a contortionist green with envy. I have a strong feeling that a lot of it comes from just being terrified that there won't be a TMNT book and so they have to justify and defend it because it's better than getting nothing.

I'd disagree, personally. With stuff like this, we don't especially need a TMNT book that badly, I reckon. It's a blind, toothless, two-legged dog with scabies at this point, just waiting to be put out of its misery so the suffering can end.

Also, the original poster missed the chance to copy over perhaps THE single most relevant part of the reddit post they're citing:
"I suspect this is therapeutic for the author, to create a world where everyone agrees with their point of view."

I mean... there it is. That's literally It.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by lonewarrior20

actually, idws bebop has been a bit of a quitter. look how he was on their side comic.

But he wasn't alone here. He had Rocksteady and their mutant velociraptor, and the opposition they faced wasn't even half as formidable as the one they pretty much fought to a standstill in #40. Certainly not enough to get them to back down. And he was never written as a quitter from a brawl, which is the whole point. You will forgive me if I have such a hard time believing two characters who have, before this point, consistently been written as bloodthirsty and violent with hair-trigger tempers, to the point that they slaughtered an entire Triad just because they got bored of waiting and murdered at least one old lady in cold blood for kicks, would just shrug and walk away from their raison d'être. It's not consistent writing or characterization.

Originally Posted by lonewarrior20

also i think people seem to forget the whole reason why lita showed up from the future. it wasn't just about jennika forming a band, it was the turtles and karai burying the hatchet before everyone killed each other in an endless eye for an eye revenge. it was about letting go of the past and moving forward to a new day of possibilities.

So that didn't happen already when the Turtles saved Karai's life in #100 and lost their father to stop the cataclysmic events she naively set in motion, which included a friggin' dragon and a horde of demons invading New York City? That wasn't enough to teach her the lesson she sorely needed, but rescuing her from a helicopter crash and then playing guitar for five minutes was? By the time of this issue, either Karai is incredibly, suicidally stupid or saving her life from sh*t she stirs up herself is just gonna become a recurring hobby for the Turtles, assuming it doesn't kill them first. And yeah, in case anyone reading this wonders, I do think it's a damn shame the matter of the debt Karai already owed the Turtles before they pulled her bacon out of the fire again was never properly addressed post-#100. Not even a snide remark from Raph or whoever in this arc, about how she should've learned her lesson. It's actually kinda odd that there's apparently no bad blood between her and Kitsune. I'll just chalk this up to Campbell's Hello Kitty-level of writing around any and all possible conflicts.

Originally Posted by Leo656

Also, the original poster missed the chance to copy over perhaps THE single most relevant part of the reddit post they're citing:
"I suspect this is therapeutic for the author, to create a world where everyone agrees with their point of view."

I mean... there it is. That's literally It.

Leftists have issues. In other news, water is wet.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Leo656

"I suspect this is therapeutic for the author, to create a world where everyone agrees with their point of view."

If I was a published writer I'd be appalled to create a world, where everyone agrees with me. Its like the most dumb childish thing writer, any writer can create.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Sumac

If I was a published writer I'd be appalled to create a world, where everyone agrees with me. Its like the most dumb childish thing writer, any writer can create.

I mean, there's a saying that "All Art is Propaganda", in that it invariably reflects the views and beliefs of its creator.

There's some truth to that. But I think you need to read the room when you're working on a commercial property, and act accordingly.

There's no doubt that much of this is coming about because TMNT is all but invisible right now. If there was a successful cartoon show on the air and a successful movie franchise ongoing, the comic would be doing things more in-line with whatever those things had going on. But since the brand is "dead" again and nobody's really reading the comic much anyway, they have the "freedom" to do whatever they want and what they want to do is unfortunately This.

"If a once-popular franchise falls in the woods, but nobody's around to listen anyway, does its death-rattle make a sound?" It's basically like that.

[Ninjinister]

I love the vast majority of everything happening since Mutant Town but yeah, this made no sense to me at all.

Not sure why the topic is "what do you think of one rando's opinion" though lmao. Nobody cares about that, just present the issue.

[neatoman]

Obviously it's a horrible idea to create a fictional world where everyone agrees with the author's point of view. Stories are primarily about some kind of conflict, which is rather hard to write if the characters don't really disagree about anything.

[hypered1]

Originally Posted by Ninjinister

I love the vast majority of everything happening since Mutant Town but yeah, this made no sense to me at all.

Not sure why the topic is "what do you think of one rando's opinion" though lmao. Nobody cares about that, just present the issue.

I agree that this is a pointless thread as it's just rehashing everything that was said on here 3 months ago in the issue's own preview/review thread.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Obviously it's a horrible idea to create a fictional world where everyone agrees with the author's point of view. Stories are primarily about some kind of conflict, which is rather hard to write if the characters don't really disagree about anything.

Crappy gif, best I could find of this clip. Sorry, I know I'm usually better.