Why was Rise cancelled? - Page 3

sleeplessknight · 09-22-2020, 10:03 PM

Remember when people were complaining that the 2012 Turtles had 3 toes and wraps around their feet?

Pepperidge Farms remembers.

Ioz · 10-03-2020, 04:32 PM

The ratings have been abysmal compared to the 2012 show and the toys failed at retail, so I think whatever is in production will be finished (52 total episodes & Netflix movie?) and then dropped after that. The 3 other cartoons blew this one out of the water.

*CyberCubed* · 10-03-2020, 05:54 PM

^ The show already ended.

nintendo2600 · 10-05-2020, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugic

I've been out of the loop, is there a reason why Nick pulled the plug on Rise?

Cause it was awful and without a doubt the worst TMNT cartoon ever.

EDIT: As in so bad, I think that Nick owes us all an apology for bastardizing this beloved franchise.

*Andrew NDB* · 10-05-2020, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nintendo2600

Cause it was awful and without a doubt the worst TMNT cartoon ever.

EDIT: As in so bad, I think that Nick owes us all an apology for bastardizing this beloved franchise.

Why would they apologize to a demographic not even remotely close to what they intended for the show? This was for 5 year-olds. If the 50 or so TMNT fans in their 30s or 40s want to tune in, they're not going to turn them away but they're also not going to listen to them.

*Leo656* · 10-05-2020, 02:00 AM

Why would they try and create content for a demographic that simply doesn't care about the property? That's my question.

Can't wait for the hot new Dick Tracy reboot aimed at 5-year olds. Kids love 1930s-era gangster shenanigans starring a guy in a canary-colored fedora who's so square Ronald Reagan would tell him to lighten the f*ck up. That'd play huge with the Paw Patrol set, I'm tellin' ya. Sure, traditionally the mean average age of your typical hardcore Dick Tracy fan is about friggin' 60, but hey... why not roll the dice, right?

I really feel like it's ignorant for any brand to ignore and/or alienate its existing base in their attempts to reach or create a new one. Why push people away who WANT to give you their money? They already care! It makes no sense.

*Andrew NDB* · 10-05-2020, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo656

Why would they try and create content for a demographic that simply doesn't care about the property? That's my question.

The answer is that TMNT has "worked" to hook about 3 generations of kiddies just by virtue of the "basic formula." They aren't banking on or caring about any carry-over.

*Leo656* · 10-05-2020, 03:11 AM

I'd love to see the numbers that back up that supposition.

I think kids were *mildly* excited about the 2003 reboot, but got over it pretty quick. I've seen little to no evidence that anyone under 30 paid much attention to anything since.

Sure, a few people our age sat their kids down and "encouraged" them to watch the new Ninja Turtles gimmick every couple years... but how many of those kids stayed on, and how many of them immediately got bored after 5 minutes? That's my question.

They haven't created "new fans" in large numbers. They've periodically managed to hold a younger audience's attention briefly, before they go back to their other pursuits. But that's not at all the same thing. They haven't kept those younger fans on, AND they've pushed older fans away, a few more with each new version.

Only ONE audience of children ever watched any iteration of TMNT and subsequently stayed with it as lifelong fans: Our Generation. For us, it was more than a passing fancy and that's why we're still around.

How many millions of people who were 6 years old in 2003 still pay attention to the brand? In 2007? 2012? I'm not talking anecdotal "Well MY kid likes it" stuff. Obviously there are figurative handfuls of people. I mean, what's the Hard Data that proves that legions of "new fans" are ACTUALLY being created with every new version of TMNT?

If they're NOT actually creating passionate, lifelong fans with their increasingly bizarre and off-putting creative choices - and I have to believe they are not until proven otherwise - then I have no choice but to question their commitment to the "New Fans, Not Old Fans" business model.

It'd be a different story if their plans to create millions of fans out of thin air every three to five years actually worked. Toy sales, TV ratings, ticket sales and internet chatter, though, strongly suggests otherwise.

The people who cared in 1990 still care. That won't change. The kids who watched the first Season of "Rise" are already onto the next fad. The 2012 kids, too. Again, it's odd and frustrating to me that anyone would spend all of their time and resources catering to such a notoriously fickle demographic when there's a whole group of people Right Over Here who already want to give you their money as long as you don't try and insult their intelligence.

You can razzle-dazzle anybody out of their time and money One Time with a few fast words, but you can't make long-term profits that way. You have to actually create lifelong fans and keep them satisfied, or it's all for naught.

WWE is in the same boat. They've publicly said that they don't care about older fans because they fully believe that they can invent a whole new audience every 5 years. But that hasn't been the case and despite all the money they make from advertisers and action figures, wrestling is by far less popular right now than it's been in 40 years. Same problem as the TMNT brand: Older fans stop watching because they find the product insulting, and the kids don't stick around because they're fickle and easily bored.

Same thing. "We can lose people, it's fine; we'll just create a new audience." Doesn't work. Hasn't worked. Dangerous game. You can only run the same con so many times before people smarten up. You can't abuse your hardcore audience and expect to simply make up the difference on the back end. It's all very presumptuous and it always backfires eventually.

*Andrew NDB* · 10-05-2020, 03:16 AM

Definitely 2k3 and 2012 weren't carried or even significantly bolstered by 20 or 30 year olds. There's no way. I know even back then we could go on a message board or a group or a whatever and find other adults that still love TMNT... but for 99% of TMNT fans? They outgrew it and never looked back. Hell, even around here. The people that were around in the 2000s that I swore would always be in the fandom... they're out.

srmff · 10-08-2020, 03:38 PM

I also have my doubts that the 2003 and 2012 shows were successful just because people who grew up in the 1980s supported it. I would imagine that the majority of action figures are being bought by actual children. I'm one of those under 30 fans who grew up in the 2000s. Sure, children are fickle. However, they only need them to watch the current iteration of TMNT that's on TV. They don't need them to become long-term fans.

To be honest, I don't think that there would be enough long-term fans from back in the 1980s to keep the brand alive and successful. I think that they need a new audience to survive. Who knows, maybe I'm underestimating their numbers. Another problem is that a lot of people who grew in the 80s might not lot to see new versions of their show. When I mentioned the 2012 show to a friend, her reaction was almost one of disgust. It's only the '87 and '03 show that are any good (the ones that we grew up with). She never actually watched '12 show but it's new and different to what we watched so it's automatically not good.

Not that it's something that people would casually bring up in conversation but I don't know anyone who is a fan of TMNT. I've seen children with TMNT merchandise though. TMNT isn't a brand like Star Wars where there's continuity with the original story. Every new series features new turtles, a new tone and a reset of the story so it's not as if people are invested in these characters and want to see their lives progress since it's a different world.

*IndigoErth* · 10-08-2020, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srmff

so it's not as if people are invested in these characters and want to see their lives progress.

Actually, that's exactly what I want. Not always rehashing the same thing over and over with every single incarnation NOR making stupidly drastic changes and rewrites the way Rise did in an effort to redo it. If someone keeps the portrayal of the TMNT who they are and should be as individuals and focuses instead on coming up with good new stories from other periods in their lives, then I'd probably be on board.

Little kids might not be invested, they've got too much vying for their attention anymore as it is, but a lot of long time fans still sticking around certainly are.

As far as 2003 goes, it's the closest to the kind of show I really want to see on tv again in look and tone. And that is coming from someone who did not grow up on it and only saw it via a binge watch several summers ago in my 30s, some years after it had ended.

Okay, maybe not that last season or two. In that last season esp you can really see some of the cruddy cartoon trends starting to seep in that are still around today.

*Leo656* · 10-08-2020, 05:56 PM

I really missed you.

Turnstone · 10-08-2020, 10:42 PM

I’ll answer the question from the very first post without reading through all the other pages. It was canceled because the animation was horrible, the characters were horrible and the stories were horrible. The end. You can close the thread now.

Cordial Bird · 10-09-2020, 11:26 AM

I hated the writing; the story telling and the dialogue.

The character designs of Rise went a little bit too extreme for me, as well.

*Luckyday* · 10-10-2020, 04:54 PM

So I guess the lesson here that majority of fans just want a grounded and gritty tmnt. Maybe it do better with CBS? They seem like they trying to get on the adult animation bandwagon with Star Trek so why just try it with the TMNT property if their kiddie market attempt had fell flat on its face?

*Leo656* · 10-10-2020, 10:50 PM

Viacom would honestly and truly prefer it if anyone over the age of 10 just stopped paying attention to TMNT forever. They've come dangerously close to saying so out loud multiple times.

The fact that there even ARE older fans ruins their entire narrative of TMNT being a "children's property". As does the fact that when presented with TMNT in any incarnation, most kids nowadays just ignore it altogether OR give up on it very fast.

Our existence is an "inconvenient truth" that upsets what their preconceived notions were as to what TMNT "should" be when they bought it. Nick has never had to try and please anyone older than age 10-12 with any of their shows/products, so they have no idea how to do it and would honestly rather not have to even try.

They'll realize this strategic error one day, but it might be way too late by then.

nellyp · 10-27-2020, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Did anyone ever even see a t-shirt, at least a kid one, for this show? I saw them online, but never a single one in person.
:

I bought a couple shirts for my son at Walmart and he wore them for a bit but now is way more into Spider-Man and Pokémon so Rise of the TMNT merch is at the bottom of his drawer.

Rise of the TMNT is such a bad property as a whole. The toy line was bad and most of the figures never came out here in Canada. I was buying them for my son but interest was lost when the line wasn’t getting refreshed. The sewer lair looked cool and often went on sale for half off but still never got it and at this point it would be a waste.

The concept of the show crapped on everything that came before it. The animation was lazy. The layout of the episodes being released as half episodes and full episodes and some being packaged together while others weren’t made it even a pain to watch as an on demand show. My kids watch stuff like Teen Titans Go but they won’t watch this. They took the break between season 1 and 2 and we never came back to it. I never even realized season 2 started till 2 months ago but still the desire to go back to it and binge watch is just not there.

I would compare it to TMNT: Next Mutation from when I was young but I can’t cause I have actually watched all of Next Mutation and own the complete DVD so this is far worse in my opinion. A real low point for the franchise so good riddance.

*Powder* · 10-27-2020, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nellyp

The concept of the show crapped on everything that came before it. The animation was lazy.

Have your opinions but these are simply not true.

It made plenty of references/homages to past material, including even some obscure Mirage stuff. & the animation? Bruh. https://twitter.com/idolomantises/st...92592730431488

*Luckyday* · 10-27-2020, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powder

Have your opinions but these are simply not true.

It made plenty of references/homages to past material, including even some obscure Mirage stuff. & the animation? Bruh. https://twitter.com/idolomantises/st...92592730431488

Hating on the animation is something that I can never understand. Cgi tmnt series took a lot of short cuts to save money. Sometimes using still shots with speed lines background, which I didn't mind because I know they were just saving their budget for scenes with Shredder or season finales.

And what really gets me is hearing 2k3 has better animation.

I seriously want examples in videos. Please enlighten me.

Maruten · 10-27-2020, 11:17 PM

I'm (as of very recently) a big Rise fan, after being suuuuper skeptical when we saw the first images, but I fully understand most of the complaints people have about the show.

But I can't fault the animation. I don't remember the last time I saw a 2D animated series with so much energy. It's such a refreshing change after years of every TV cartoon being some plodding Flash thing full of stretched clipart.

10-05-2020, 02:00 AM	#46
Leo656 The Franchise Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,696	Why would they try and create content for a demographic that simply doesn't care about the property? That's my question. Can't wait for the hot new Dick Tracy reboot aimed at 5-year olds. Kids love 1930s-era gangster shenanigans starring a guy in a canary-colored fedora who's so square Ronald Reagan would tell him to lighten the fck up. That'd play huge with the Paw Patrol set, I'm tellin' ya. Sure, traditionally the mean average age of your typical hardcore Dick Tracy fan is about friggin' 60, but hey... why not roll the dice, right? I really feel like it's ignorant for any brand to ignore and/or alienate its existing base in their attempts to reach or create a new one. Why push people away who WANT to give you their money? They already care! It makes no sense. __________________ "I left some words quite far from here to be a short reminder... I laid them out in stone, in case they need to last forever..." "But hey... I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know."* nWo Tech: The Official Thread Poison of the Technodrome Forums https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA https://theroxxshow.blogspot.com/

10-05-2020, 03:11 AM	#48
Leo656 The Franchise Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,696	I'd love to see the numbers that back up that supposition. I think kids were mildly excited about the 2003 reboot, but got over it pretty quick. I've seen little to no evidence that anyone under 30 paid much attention to anything since. Sure, a few people our age sat their kids down and "encouraged" them to watch the new Ninja Turtles gimmick every couple years... but how many of those kids stayed on, and how many of them immediately got bored after 5 minutes? That's my question. They haven't created "new fans" in large numbers. They've periodically managed to hold a younger audience's attention briefly, before they go back to their other pursuits. But that's not at all the same thing. They haven't kept those younger fans on, AND they've pushed older fans away, a few more with each new version. Only ONE audience of children ever watched any iteration of TMNT and subsequently stayed with it as lifelong fans: Our Generation. For us, it was more than a passing fancy and that's why we're still around. How many millions of people who were 6 years old in 2003 still pay attention to the brand? In 2007? 2012? I'm not talking anecdotal "Well MY kid likes it" stuff. Obviously there are figurative handfuls of people. I mean, what's the Hard Data that proves that legions of "new fans" are ACTUALLY being created with every new version of TMNT? If they're NOT actually creating passionate, lifelong fans with their increasingly bizarre and off-putting creative choices - and I have to believe they are not until proven otherwise - then I have no choice but to question their commitment to the "New Fans, Not Old Fans" business model. It'd be a different story if their plans to create millions of fans out of thin air every three to five years actually worked. Toy sales, TV ratings, ticket sales and internet chatter, though, strongly suggests otherwise. The people who cared in 1990 still care. That won't change. The kids who watched the first Season of "Rise" are already onto the next fad. The 2012 kids, too. Again, it's odd and frustrating to me that anyone would spend all of their time and resources catering to such a notoriously fickle demographic when there's a whole group of people Right Over Here who already want to give you their money as long as you don't try and insult their intelligence. You can razzle-dazzle anybody out of their time and money One Time with a few fast words, but you can't make long-term profits that way. You have to actually create lifelong fans and keep them satisfied, or it's all for naught. WWE is in the same boat. They've publicly said that they don't care about older fans because they fully believe that they can invent a whole new audience every 5 years. But that hasn't been the case and despite all the money they make from advertisers and action figures, wrestling is by far less popular right now than it's been in 40 years. Same problem as the TMNT brand: Older fans stop watching because they find the product insulting, and the kids don't stick around because they're fickle and easily bored. Same thing. "We can lose people, it's fine; we'll just create a new audience." Doesn't work. Hasn't worked. Dangerous game. You can only run the same con so many times before people smarten up. You can't abuse your hardcore audience and expect to simply make up the difference on the back end. It's all very presumptuous and it always backfires eventually. __________________ "I left some words quite far from here to be a short reminder... I laid them out in stone, in case they need to last forever..." "But hey... I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know." nWo Tech: The Official Thread Poison of the Technodrome Forums https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA https://theroxxshow.blogspot.com/

10-05-2020, 03:16 AM	#49
Andrew NDB Weed Whacker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 29,252	Definitely 2k3 and 2012 weren't carried or even significantly bolstered by 20 or 30 year olds. There's no way. I know even back then we could go on a message board or a group or a whatever and find other adults that still love TMNT... but for 99% of TMNT fans? They outgrew it and never looked back. Hell, even around here. The people that were around in the 2000s that I swore would always be in the fandom... they're out. __________________ [ ODYSSEY \| ORIGIN \| THE IMAGE/VOL. 3 CONCLUSION \| THE SHELLSHOCKED PODCAST \| ON FACEBOOK ]

10-08-2020, 05:56 PM	#52
Leo656 The Franchise Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,696	I really missed you. __________________ "I left some words quite far from here to be a short reminder... I laid them out in stone, in case they need to last forever..." "But hey... I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know." nWo Tech: The Official Thread Poison of the Technodrome Forums https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA https://theroxxshow.blogspot.com/

10-10-2020, 10:50 PM	#56
Leo656 The Franchise Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,696	Viacom would honestly and truly prefer it if anyone over the age of 10 just stopped paying attention to TMNT forever. They've come dangerously close to saying so out loud multiple times. The fact that there even ARE older fans ruins their entire narrative of TMNT being a "children's property". As does the fact that when presented with TMNT in any incarnation, most kids nowadays just ignore it altogether OR give up on it very fast. Our existence is an "inconvenient truth" that upsets what their preconceived notions were as to what TMNT "should" be when they bought it. Nick has never had to try and please anyone older than age 10-12 with any of their shows/products, so they have no idea how to do it and would honestly rather not have to even try. They'll realize this strategic error one day, but it might be way too late by then. __________________ "I left some words quite far from here to be a short reminder... I laid them out in stone, in case they need to last forever..." "But hey... I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know." nWo Tech: The Official Thread Poison of the Technodrome Forums https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA https://theroxxshow.blogspot.com/

09-22-2020, 10:03 PM	#41
sleeplessknight Thug Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Vancouver BC Posts: 74	Remember when people were complaining that the 2012 Turtles had 3 toes and wraps around their feet? Pepperidge Farms remembers.

10-03-2020, 04:32 PM	#42
Ioz Foot Soldier Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 103	The ratings have been abysmal compared to the 2012 show and the toys failed at retail, so I think whatever is in production will be finished (52 total episodes & Netflix movie?) and then dropped after that. The 3 other cartoons blew this one out of the water.

10-03-2020, 05:54 PM	#43
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 41,031	^ The show already ended.

10-08-2020, 03:38 PM	#50
srmff Foot Soldier Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Ireland Posts: 189	I also have my doubts that the 2003 and 2012 shows were successful just because people who grew up in the 1980s supported it. I would imagine that the majority of action figures are being bought by actual children. I'm one of those under 30 fans who grew up in the 2000s. Sure, children are fickle. However, they only need them to watch the current iteration of TMNT that's on TV. They don't need them to become long-term fans. To be honest, I don't think that there would be enough long-term fans from back in the 1980s to keep the brand alive and successful. I think that they need a new audience to survive. Who knows, maybe I'm underestimating their numbers. Another problem is that a lot of people who grew in the 80s might not lot to see new versions of their show. When I mentioned the 2012 show to a friend, her reaction was almost one of disgust. It's only the '87 and '03 show that are any good (the ones that we grew up with). She never actually watched '12 show but it's new and different to what we watched so it's automatically not good. Not that it's something that people would casually bring up in conversation but I don't know anyone who is a fan of TMNT. I've seen children with TMNT merchandise though. TMNT isn't a brand like Star Wars where there's continuity with the original story. Every new series features new turtles, a new tone and a reset of the story so it's not as if people are invested in these characters and want to see their lives progress since it's a different world.

10-08-2020, 10:42 PM	#53
Turnstone Stone Warrior Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 733	I’ll answer the question from the very first post without reading through all the other pages. It was canceled because the animation was horrible, the characters were horrible and the stories were horrible. The end. You can close the thread now.

10-09-2020, 11:26 AM	#54
Cordial Bird Random Punk Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Arizona Posts: 16	I hated the writing; the story telling and the dialogue. The character designs of Rise went a little bit too extreme for me, as well.

10-27-2020, 11:17 PM	#60
Maruten New Recruit Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Australia Posts: 4	I'm (as of very recently) a big Rise fan, after being suuuuper skeptical when we saw the first images, but I fully understand most of the complaints people have about the show. But I can't fault the animation. I don't remember the last time I saw a 2D animated series with so much energy. It's such a refreshing change after years of every TV cartoon being some plodding Flash thing full of stretched clipart.