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Old 08-03-2021, 01:41 AM   #61
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I remember reading that the idea for the first Star Trek movie came because of the success of Star Wars, not sure if it was entirely that.
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Old 08-03-2021, 01:45 AM   #62
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I remember reading that the idea for the first Star Trek movie came because of the success of Star Wars, not sure if it was entirely that.
I think it was 2001: A Space Odyssey if anything. Though maybe the success of Star Wars moved the money along a little faster.
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Old 08-03-2021, 06:17 AM   #63
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When I can run into Klingons at a Ren faire, but never a Ninja Turtle, PRETTY sure Trek tops TMNT in popularity. And these were full makeup, costume, batleth and all Klingons.
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Old 08-03-2021, 07:02 AM   #64
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The only way I can people not being aware how huge Star Trek is:

1. You grew up in a foreign country that didn't have Star Trek aired on TV

2. You're a zoomer who grew up in the mid-2000's (and that's not anyone here, since almost everyone here is around 30 years old or older), long after the peak of the series and after Enterprise ended.


Kirk and Spock are literally pop culture icons.
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Old 08-03-2021, 07:38 AM   #65
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I remember loosing an argument once with someone over who between Kirk and Spock stood out more to non-Trek fans, I thought it would be Spock (though really looking back I might not think the same, pretty joint though) Anyway I went into to work and asked the office 'those who don't care about Star Trek, when I say Star Trek what's the first thing (besides some insulting choice words) that comes to mind' They all said Captain Kirk, don't remember if I went back and told the person they were right

So far as the title of the thread, I mean if we are comparing with the number of people everywhere who don't care about it then yeah fans will be the the smaller number but given all the content and amount of conventions obviously a lot of people like it. Not sure how it sits with the youngest generation or how Discovery is doing though. (still not watched that myself)

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Old 08-03-2021, 08:32 AM   #66
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I'm not saying Star Trek isn't big, it just isn't as well known as other franchises or as recognizable as others and not that relevant worldwide.
Tarzan was a huge property, people will know who he is, but is he bigger than TMNT? Certainly in being recognizable but at this stage most people know him because of parodies and Tarzan isn't doing the same amount of money as TMNT. It's a relic of the past.

Yeah, star trek has shows, so there's money to be made there and a dedicated audience. but I don't think it's that big, hell this topic exists because of that very reason. "Not that many people like star trek..." and I agree.

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Let's put it this way. Peter Laird sold the ENTIRETY of the TMNT rights for 60 million. That's less than even the sh*ttiest Star Trek movie made, and there's been 13 of them. Combined with 4 syndicated shows of over 400 episodes, whatever they made in action figures/toys/ship sales... it's not even CLOSE to TMNT even at TMNT's height.
By that logic the Platinum Dunes TMNT movie is worth 4 times more than TMNT since it made that much more money than what Nick bought it for. You're comparing apples and oranges.

DO we know how much they've made in licensing from star trek? I'm sure it's plenty but is it TMNT fad big? It doesn't require a lot to keep a franchise from making books and model kits, different business model than mass retail. I mean perhaps Star Trek does make more from licensing, I don't know the numbers but I somehow doubt it.

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The only way I can people not being aware how huge Star Trek is:

1. You grew up in a foreign country that didn't have Star Trek aired on TV

2. You're a zoomer who grew up in the mid-2000's (and that's not anyone here, since almost everyone here is around 30 years old or older), long after the peak of the series and after Enterprise ended.


Kirk and Spock are literally pop culture icons.
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The original series was literally a pop culture phenomenon in the 60's and introduced tons of people to sci-fi a decade before Star Wars. (Remember Star Wars didn't come out till 1977).

Next Generation was literally one of the most popular shows of the late 80's and early 90's. Deep Space Nine is considered one of the best sci-fi shows of all time. Let alone Voyager and Enterprise although they were less popular still had long runs.

You don't have 5 series come out in an almost continuous span (if you count TOS movies and cartoon, there's an even smaller gap between TOS and Next Gen in 1987), without it. I can't think of any other franchise that had 5 TV shows on the air almost continuously in the same universe one after the other like this.
If a foreign country didn't have star trek then it means it isn't globally as well known as another property like say star wars.
I grew up in the 90s and knew of Star Trek's existence but it certainly wasn't a thing that appealed to me or any of my friends of elementary school age. It wasn't until high school that I knew of a "trekkie", granted I lived in a relatively small city in the midwest but there's no problems with most other franchises.
Yeah, people might know what Star Trek is, that's different from being fans of the franchise. I know who the monster of the black lagoon is, he is an icon but i've never seen a movie and i doubt people are making much money on that despite how iconic it may be, it's not bigger or profitable TMNT which was my original quote, despite perhaps more people recognizing that face.

Besides isn't star trek just running on fumes based off Star Trek and TNG and keep rehashing that same idea. The air bud series of movies had 14 movies, does that make it a huge franchise?

If zoomers can't recognize Star Trek much then perhaps it's for a reason, it hasn't been able to stay relevant.
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Old 08-03-2021, 09:20 AM   #67
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You literally only exist to post provably-wrong things.

The TMNT franchise would need a rocket up its metaphorical ass to come anywhere close to matching Star Trek's fanbase in either number or passion.

Star Trek fans at their most dedicated make countless fan films and shows. TMNT fans, at their most dedicated, write slash fiction. It's not even a contest.
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Old 08-03-2021, 10:54 AM   #68
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Come to think of it, I don't remember seeing or hearing much about Star Trek back when I lived in Mexico. I think I caught episodes of Deep Space Nine (idk if that's one, the one with the female Captain where they're lost in space somewhere and are trying to get back?) on the American channels, which don't count lol. I seem to recall seeing the Generations movie too.

Idk I'm sure the new movies made it down there but I'm not sure about the actual series.
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Old 08-03-2021, 11:02 AM   #69
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I guess Star Trek isn't big in the Latin American countries? I wonder why hispanics don't like it, as far as I can tell they like Star Wars, anime, and DC/Marvel movies. Maybe the plots are too scientific for people?

It's weird you go south of the border and all of a sudden interests change, when those same people could live in the U.S. and it'd be no difference.
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Old 08-03-2021, 11:15 AM   #70
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Saxon = Joke Account


Oh yeah that's right.... I forgot.
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Old 08-03-2021, 12:04 PM   #71
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I guess Star Trek isn't big in the Latin American countries? I wonder why hispanics don't like it, as far as I can tell they like Star Wars, anime, and DC/Marvel movies. Maybe the plots are too scientific for people?

It's weird you go south of the border and all of a sudden interests change, when those same people could live in the U.S. and it'd be no difference.
It's not so much don't like it, it just wasn't shown there. It's like there being some new anime that for whatever reason, was never shown here and people wondering why Americans don't like it.
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Old 08-03-2021, 01:05 PM   #72
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Ok, Europe and Latinamerica and the midwest, so that's a good chunk of the world then.

Again I'm not saying Star Trek isn't big, or people don't know what star trek is. I asked in what way Star Trek was bigger than TMNT. Pop culture and worldwide recognition? More people recognize the name Ninja Turtles, I'd definitely argue that, it's been more than 30 years, the kids who grew up with it all know what it is and the original parents who bought it for their kids in the 90s also know, that's a huge chunk of the population.

Profitability? I don't have numbers but with the cashcow that TMNT is and all the licensing deals it gets I don't see how it's any more.

And I was asking a question, I don't think it is but i've never been into trek and i've never really met people in real life besides one nerd in HS about it. I've lived in 3 different countries, and talked to geeks all the time and only have met trekkies online. Power Rangers has had shows and movies since it came out, that doesn't mean it's a huge brand, it's big and has been bigger the last few years now that it's finally nostalgic cool to like power rangers.
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Old 08-03-2021, 01:31 PM   #73
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Ok, Europe and Latinamerica and the midwest, so that's a good chunk of the world then.

Again I'm not saying Star Trek isn't big, or people don't know what star trek is. I asked in what way Star Trek was bigger than TMNT. Pop culture and worldwide recognition? More people recognize the name Ninja Turtles, I'd definitely argue that, it's been more than 30 years, the kids who grew up with it all know what it is and the original parents who bought it for their kids in the 90s also know, that's a huge chunk of the population.

Profitability? I don't have numbers but with the cashcow that TMNT is and all the licensing deals it gets I don't see how it's any more.

And I was asking a question, I don't think it is but i've never been into trek and i've never really met people in real life besides one nerd in HS about it. I've lived in 3 different countries, and talked to geeks all the time and only have met trekkies online. Power Rangers has had shows and movies since it came out, that doesn't mean it's a huge brand, it's big and has been bigger the last few years now that it's finally nostalgic cool to like power rangers.
Here's a.... we will say quick and crude "google data" comparison. We could go MBA-deep on this but I'm not that vested in this topic. But here goes:

I.P.'s On T.V.
Star Trek = 7 Shows Since 1966 | I'm fairly confident all of them aired on primetime T.V. slots
TMNT = 5 Shows Since 1987 | I'm fairly confident that either none or one of them aired on primtime T.V. slots

I.P.'s On Film
Star Trek = 13 Theatrical Films | $2,266,907,732 Franchise Worldwide
TMNT = 6 Theatrical Films | $1,149,359,568 Franchise Worldwide

Now just from the heuristics involved here, these numbers speak quite a bit. Also note that Star Trek had comic book publication going as far back as Gold Key and spanned I think at least 4 different publishers. TMNT was an obscure publication nearly all the way through it's Mirage days.

The toy sales thing would be interesting. Without even looking it up, I'd imagine that Playmates TMNT outsold Playmates Trek, but right there you've got some comparison of sales from Playmates alone. Trek has had several action figure/toy lines and has a huge "high end collector" presence - I'd argue much greater than TMNT's.

You are using a metric of "word of mouth" recognition; but I mean.... I've never seen a TMNT-centered convention/show. Never. Trek is present everywhere and has a myriad of it's own convention gatherings worldwide.

I think the only place that TMNT has probably ever beat Trek would be specifically on sales of Playmates toys, of which quite frankly TMNT probably deserves the win there. Somebody inclined to argue or to try to look clever might observe something like "well Trek had twice as many movies and by the numbers if TMNT had 6 more movies it would surpass Trek at the Box Office." But see - that's just it - Trek has had 13 movies most which were born of the 80's and 90's. TMNT had three movies born of the 80's and 90's. Trek is simply the bigger franchise, no caveats. Someone could argue that Trek is "only bigger because it came first", which... doesn't matter, it's still bigger.

Also, I have no real stake in this. So replies building an argument against this as if I've woven an attack on TMNT? Please just go and do that idiot-savant $#!( somewhere else. Any other replies in discussion, absolutely invited.

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Old 08-03-2021, 01:44 PM   #74
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You literally only exist to post provably-wrong things.

The TMNT franchise would need a rocket up its metaphorical ass to come anywhere close to matching Star Trek's fanbase in either number or passion.

Star Trek fans at their most dedicated make countless fan films and shows. TMNT fans, at their most dedicated, write slash fiction. It's not even a contest.
And let's not even compare TMNT conventions vs. Star Trek conventions. And cruises. And rides. lol...
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Old 08-03-2021, 09:58 PM   #75
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I'm not saying Star Trek isn't big, it just isn't as well known as other franchises or as recognizable as others and not that relevant worldwide.
Tarzan was a huge property, people will know who he is, but is he bigger than TMNT? Certainly in being recognizable but at this stage most people know him because of parodies and Tarzan isn't doing the same amount of money as TMNT. It's a relic of the past.

Yeah, star trek has shows, so there's money to be made there and a dedicated audience. but I don't think it's that big, hell this topic exists because of that very reason. "Not that many people like star trek..." and I agree.



By that logic the Platinum Dunes TMNT movie is worth 4 times more than TMNT since it made that much more money than what Nick bought it for. You're comparing apples and oranges.

DO we know how much they've made in licensing from star trek? I'm sure it's plenty but is it TMNT fad big? It doesn't require a lot to keep a franchise from making books and model kits, different business model than mass retail. I mean perhaps Star Trek does make more from licensing, I don't know the numbers but I somehow doubt it.




If a foreign country didn't have star trek then it means it isn't globally as well known as another property like say star wars.
I grew up in the 90s and knew of Star Trek's existence but it certainly wasn't a thing that appealed to me or any of my friends of elementary school age. It wasn't until high school that I knew of a "trekkie", granted I lived in a relatively small city in the midwest but there's no problems with most other franchises.
Yeah, people might know what Star Trek is, that's different from being fans of the franchise. I know who the monster of the black lagoon is, he is an icon but i've never seen a movie and i doubt people are making much money on that despite how iconic it may be, it's not bigger or profitable TMNT which was my original quote, despite perhaps more people recognizing that face.

Besides isn't star trek just running on fumes based off Star Trek and TNG and keep rehashing that same idea. The air bud series of movies had 14 movies, does that make it a huge franchise?

If zoomers can't recognize Star Trek much then perhaps it's for a reason, it hasn't been able to stay relevant.

Dude, do you even KNOW how much merchandising and licensing Star Trek as a franchise HAS? There is literally Trek merch for EVERYTHING. Watches, costumes, face masks, cookbooks, figures, the list is endless. And fanbase? There are Star Trek conventions FOR A REASON. It is literally known and loved WORLDWIDE! The actors are celebrity icons! To the point that many went on to careers in acting in other movies and tv series BECAUSE of Star Trek. (Heck, there are probably very FEW people who HAVEN'T heard of Kirk, Spock, and probably Picard and Data AT LEAST, if one were to judge by the sheer number of memes alone!) And I'm sorry, but even zoomers know what Trek is, thanks to the reboot movies and Discovery, Picard, and other new material. Many have probably seen at least ONE of the older series on any number of broadcast cast channels that air them even now, or on multiple streaming services. As with the movies, as well. This is not a franchise "running on fumes". It has an actual exhibit in THE SMITHSONIAN! A cultural phenomenon that lasted decades, rather than just a few short years, as TMNT at its peak did. It has its own languages, culinary and cultural development, history and even coined the idea of the "Mirror-verse" that has since become a sci-fi trope.

There is literally NO CONTEST when it comes to which is more popular or well known. It's still just as relevant now- with three new movies and two new series released within the last six years, as it's ever been. TMNT has NEVER had that kind of relevance, save for the brief point in it's prime in the beginning of the 90s.
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Old 08-04-2021, 10:15 AM   #76
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How is this even comparable? Doesn't Star Trek lean more towards the "sweaty 30+ year old basement dwelling virgins" while TMNT is skewed more towards children? They occupy completely different facets of pop culture, so comparing TV slots, movies, and conventions just seems kind of weird. I've personally never met a single Star Trek fan my age nor have I ever really heard it be brought up in day to day conversations by anyone.

Star Trek by far has the more dedicated fanbase as that is pretty much the nature of anything sci-fi, but I don't know if I necessarily believe it's more culturally recognizable or more popular than Ninja Turtles. I feel like Ninja Turtles just has a far wider reach because it falls into the same category as stuff like Marvel and DC and therefore has a more casual and generic appeal across the board instead of one very large passionate group of fans.
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Old 08-04-2021, 11:49 AM   #77
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Star Trek is a cultural icon, which had an enormous influence on a real world.

TMNT, with all due respect, is a kid's franchise and while being phenomenon in its own right, it is nowhere near close to the popularity and influence of ST.
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Old 08-04-2021, 02:21 PM   #78
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How is this even comparable? Doesn't Star Trek lean more towards the "sweaty 30+ year old basement dwelling virgins" while TMNT is skewed more towards children? They occupy completely different facets of pop culture, so comparing TV slots, movies, and conventions just seems kind of weird. I've personally never met a single Star Trek fan my age nor have I ever really heard it be brought up in day to day conversations by anyone.

Star Trek by far has the more dedicated fanbase as that is pretty much the nature of anything sci-fi, but I don't know if I necessarily believe it's more culturally recognizable or more popular than Ninja Turtles. I feel like Ninja Turtles just has a far wider reach because it falls into the same category as stuff like Marvel and DC and therefore has a more casual and generic appeal across the board instead of one very large passionate group of fans.

The fact that Trek IS more of an adult franchise is exactly WHY it's so much bigger. Kids tend to grow out of their fandoms, thus TMNT has had a couple of short-lived flashpoints, as the kids of those generations aged out of it, but Trek is perennially popular. The same people who were fans 20 or 40 years ago, are STILL fans now, casual or not. And it is much more sophisticated story and theme wise (save a few bits here and there in the comics with TMNT) which means that it can be enjoyed by MULTIPLE generations and age groups, and cna and DOES provoke serious discussions and thoughts by fans.
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Old 08-04-2021, 04:31 PM   #79
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You literally only exist to post provably-wrong things.

The TMNT franchise would need a rocket up its metaphorical ass to come anywhere close to matching Star Trek's fanbase in either number or passion.

Star Trek fans at their most dedicated make countless fan films and shows. TMNT fans, at their most dedicated, write slash fiction. It's not even a contest.
To be fair making a fan film or show out of TMNT would difficult as hell. You could make a Casey Jones or April O'Neil or something of that nature but making something half decent looking that involved the turtles themselves would require much more that the average fan (even bolstered with the help of patreon) could afford.

Other than that I agree Star Trek is way bigger than TMNT. The franchise exists in an odd cultural space that most people have heard of it but few know much about it. Of those that do some people look at like a legitimate action adventure franchise like something from Marvel or DC whereas as other think of it more like the Muppet Babies.
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Old 08-04-2021, 04:45 PM   #80
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Star Trek fans were also like the first big fandom in the west, right? "Trekkies" were huge even before the internet, which is shocking because before the internet it was much harder to discuss your interests with people outside of conventions or whatever.
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