The TMNT Mirage Continuity Timeline (complete?)

[Billbeaux]

I'm sure others have touched on it as well, but I nominate "Practical Jokes" as taking place between vol. 3 #23 and #24 (some time just before Don went out shopping, perhaps). It makes for a nice "calm before the storm" moment (think about that scene near the end of Saving Private Ryan, just before the sh*t hit the fan, when the soldiers are sitting around reminiscing and telling goofy anecdotes), and placing it smack dab in the middle of such a tense situation would really serve to underline Mike's ending narration. Like I said in my review, I wish Pimiko were in the final panel with Splinter and the boys, but for my money I like to imagine she's just off panel, raising an eyebrow at Mike's punchline and just sort of observing their jovial family dynamic with a sense of wonderment/intrigue. As we later see, she starts to warms up to them.

Anyhoo, that's the case I'm making. For what it's worth, that's where I'm placing it on my copy of the timeline

[ToTheNines]

For those into this kinda stuff, I made a different style of timeline for the 2k3 cartoon

Also, I've broken down this timeline into actual years too, though it's not as detailed as what I just made (just everthing from Volume 1 to Volume 4, and all the Tales in between).

[Dinobot]

THis is great. I'm reading through the comics in this order and writing a detailed chronology which I will put online when I'm finished. Gonna take a while!

[ToTheNines]

So now that the Image conclusion is here, maybe there's a few shifts to be made.

I think "The Proposal" works much much better before the Gang Wars, because of all the Karai/Foot stuff, and because Shadow is so young. And the Savage Dragon crossover might as well go with it.

I also think "Change in Power" works better as close as possible to Vol. 3 #1... where it's at right now would mean Lady Shredder wasn't really up to anything for 2 whole years.

I love "Christmas Past" but there's no way it's canon. The Image narrative is too tight to fit in a break for a Christmas story anywhere past the time where Leo loses his hand. There's a few gaps earlier in the run where something like that could be plugged in, but Leo would have a hand, and Raph may not be Shredder at that point. Plus it's really close to "Cold, Cold Ice" anyways.

EDIT: If Leo had his hand, it would fit just fine directly after #16.

[thingy]

I was just flicking through the Turtle Soup issues and wondered could "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle" from #4 be included in the timeline?
Quick summary: Mikey is reading comics, has strange dream, wakes up. OK his comic pile includes TMNT and Usagi but it seems like it could fit during one of the Living with April years (as it takes place in an apartment).

[ToTheNines]

Not an error in continuity or anything but I just noticed that you have Tales #27 right next to Volume 4 #28 rather than right below it.

[ToTheNines]

Also, you have Tales #26 "The Value of Gold" taking place roughly in the late 80's, yet Don plays a MMORPG and gets on ebay. I'd probably put it in late Mirage Volume 3 or Prelude to Volume 4.

Unless, of course, I missed something that's anchoring it the Return to New York era.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Also, you have Tales #26 "The Value of Gold" taking place roughly in the late 80's, yet Don plays a MMORPG

Stuff like that you kind of have to ignore. Some particular writers, like Tristan, have an elastic DC/Marvel-like sensibility toward the Mirage TMNT chronology where sort of "everything is Present Day"... which can throw monkey wrenches into people trying to sort things out in a chronological timeline of events beginning in a specific year.

[DrSpengler]

I think I originally had it somewhere in "Mirage Volume 3", but the story didn't seem to work in that timeframe so I moved it to earlier. I recall it having to do with Casey still being a vigilante when he'd given that up by that point in the narrative.

The MMORPG thing, as Andrew pointed out, is just one of those things you have to accept. Eastman and Laird wrote the Turtles in a static timeline, other authors (like Tristan, Berger, Carlson and others) did not. Just have to ignore that, I suppose.

[DrSpengler]

For those interested, I've been tweaking The Timeline a lot lately, now that I'm going through and reviewing the Mirage issues in the order I originally set them.

Found a few major mistakes ("Seends of Destruction" was a pre TMNT #1 flashback story, rereading it) and shuffled some stuff around to where I think it fits better.

Got rid of that break in the Mirage "Volume 3" era and shuffled the three stories to the end of Volume 2.

There's no way around the whole Leatherhead-lair thing other than to assume that after they gave Leatherhead their trashed lair, they established a second one elsewhere in the sewers. That doesn't quite gel with Tales #57, where Leo makes a big deal about "returning to the sewers", but it's the only explanation. So I moved some stuff around from when i originally thought I could "fix" the error.

Might be a little more shuffling to come (don't really like Berger's "Leatherhead trilogy" and the "Monster Island" arc being so close together, as it's sort of a Leatherhead overdose).

[funatic]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

Found a few major mistakes ("Seends of Destruction" was a pre TMNT #1 flashback story, rereading it) and shuffled some stuff around to where I think it fits better.

Looking at my own TMNT timeline I noticed a note I made that this story takes place in 1996. Most of the issues don't have notes specifying them to a certain year so I figured it must have been announced in a letters page or some such. Sure enough, in Tales v2 #4 in the "Tales Mail," the editor says issue 2 "took place sometime in 1996. (But, I no longer remember why!)" Sound reasoning huh? That would place it well after the origin story though. Normally I'd be inclined to trust your judgement over his, though I think it IS meant to be post TMNT #1, as Splinter is battling a foot mystic, one of three who were after them for a series of different random Tales v2 issues, and it was all post-shredder-death revenge I think? though I could be wrong. Anyway, that's my 2 pennies.

[DrSpengler]

Originally Posted by funatic

Looking at my own TMNT timeline I noticed a note I made that this story takes place in 1996. Most of the issues don't have notes specifying them to a certain year so I figured it must have been announced in a letters page or some such. Sure enough, in Tales v2 #4 in the "Tales Mail," the editor says issue 2 "took place sometime in 1996. (But, I no longer remember why!)" Sound reasoning huh? That would place it well after the origin story though. Normally I'd be inclined to trust your judgement over his, though I think it IS meant to be post TMNT #1, as Splinter is battling a foot mystic, one of three who were after them for a series of different random Tales v2 issues, and it was all post-shredder-death revenge I think? though I could be wrong. Anyway, that's my 2 pennies.

I read that note too, but I think Murphy might have changed his mind.

In the editorial in the issue itself, he said the script was originally done for the Dreamwave TMNT comic (when he was applying for the spot as writer) and it was meant to take place after the first episode of the series. He modified it slightly when he reworked it for Tales.

In the story-itself, none of the Foot Mystics are aware that Splinter has any connection to the Foot. Splinter remarks when the Mystic challenges him that the day he has feared has finally come (the Foot finally attacking).

He also learns how to astral project for the first time in this story, which would have to place it in the pre TMNT #1 era.


It's one of those cases where I think the events and dialogue within the story-itself trump the "author intent", which was only mentioned in a letters page and in a half-remembered way, at that, making me not find it too reliable.

The second Foot Mystic issue was stated in-story to take place years after "Seeds of Destruction", so I left that one where it is in the post TMNT #1 timeframe.

[funatic]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

.In the story-itself, none of the Foot Mystics are aware that Splinter has any connection to the Foot. Splinter remarks when the Mystic challenges him that the day he has feared has finally come (the Foot finally attacking).

I thought Splinter was referring to the mystic ninja finally tracking them down after Shredder's demise, rather than their first ever encounter with The Foot. The fact that the mystic didn't know Splinter was connected to The Foot was admittedly odd, but then why were they tracking him in the first place? Just seems like muddled writing. I agree that the tone kind of feels like early TMNT: Leo overbearing, Splinter in a more fatherly role, BUT the iPod and Tool poster are hard to place in the 80s, heck, iPods weren't even around in '96! Ahh the joys of continuity...

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

Found a few major mistakes ("Seends of Destruction" was a pre TMNT #1 flashback story, rereading it) and shuffled some stuff around to where I think it fits better.

Cool. I always hated that so close to "Quick and the Dead" anyways, what with Splinter's dialogue of "sunflower seeds... after all this time?"

[DrSpengler]

Added the Shell Shock story "O-Deed".

I dunno why I overlooked that one the first time around. Maybe because it was by Zulli, so I assumed it was part of his "Souls Winter" continuity (like his other two shorts). It was written by Murphy, though, and Zulli even alters his style for Michelangelo to look more like the Mirage design.

Dropped it into the "Return to Northampton" era. The window in Mike's bedroom make me think it takes place at the farmhouse, though I suppose they could also be in April's apartment.

(though there is the weirdness of Splinter calling Michelangelo "Michael")

[DrSpengler]

Some more shuffling.

I figured since A.C. Farley's Vol. 1 stories weren't considered "canon" by Laird that his Turtle Soup shorts should probably be red-coded too, so I did so for "Fifteen Years Later" and "Crack in a Hard Heart".

Also did a little bit of shuffling regarding some short back-ups. Since having two stories where Raph breaks down and cries next to each other was overdoing it a bit, I moved "The Mother of All Anger" back to the Exile era. It fills in for the missing Raphael segment of Challenges nicely, looking at it.

And I rearranged a bunch of the shorts in the Return to Northampton era, as I realized that they each form a nice series of Turtle-oriented vignettes. O-Deed (Mike), The Purpose of Fear (Leo), Crack in a Hard Heart (Raph) and The Ring (Don). Fancy that.

[John Pannozzi]

I think CreeD/TMNT should be added to the timeline.

[DrSpengler]

Originally Posted by John Pannozzi

I think CreeD/TMNT should be added to the timeline.

You know, I own it but I've never read it.

I'll check it out before I jump into City at War for my reviews.

[ToTheNines]

Looking at the timeline now, the only thing that kinda drives me crazy is Tales #22. It's fine where it's at (and I know May said it was a prelude to CaW) except when factoring in Modeen's Image conclusion books. It just doesn't make any sense that Amaya would go into hiding for 2 years after confronting the turtles for the first time.

Her story (and for that matter the entire Image run) doesn't exactly jive with the The Gang Wars, but is there any way to work around it?

[DrSpengler]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Looking at the timeline now, the only thing that kinda drives me crazy is Tales #22. It's fine where it's at (and I know May said it was a prelude to CaW) except when factoring in Modeen's Image conclusion books. It just doesn't make any sense that Amaya would go into hiding for 2 years after confronting the turtles for the first time.

Her story (and for that matter the entire Image run) doesn't exactly jive with the The Gang Wars, but is there any way to work around it?

Well, Amaya's whole back story seemed to be an exercise in patience and biding her time.

She showed up first when the Turtles were kids as Headhunter, then was lurking behind the scenes when they killed Shredder many years later. Was still further shown lurking behind the scenes when the Foot created the worm Shredder. Then she waited many more years before confronting the Turtles at Goseico as the Mistress. Then she waited a few years more before taking on the identity of the Lady Shredder to sieze total command of the New York branch and attack the Turtles again.

There's a LOT of "biding" in her personal timeline.

And it isn't a trait exclusive to her, either, as many villains have attacked, sworn vengeance and then inexplicably waited years to try again. The Foot Mystics that attacked Splinter on the Astral Plane waited years before attacking him again with the superspeed Foot Soldiers. No explanation why they waited that long; they just did.

Personally my only grievance with placing Tales #22 there isn't anything to do with Amaya, but with Hattori. Taking place so soon after TMNT #46-47, he's sort of bugging the Turtles a lot when its played as though he hadn't seen them in a while between encounters.

But there are plenty of weird continuity mishaps like that which can't be avoided. Gang Wars takes place after Vol. 2 even though in the first chapter they reference Donny being up in Northampton with Splinter like it was after Vol. 1. The Turtles ages make NO sense, nor does the clashing "static" timeline and "fluid" timeline approaches between different authors.

Eh. Whaddayagonnado.