The TMNT Mirage Continuity Timeline (complete?)

[DrSpengler]

Reading through "City at War" for the site, I realized I totally botched where Tales #46 takes place.

It weirdly fits in-between story arcs in TMNT (Vol. 1) #56; after April's dad dies but before Karai blows up the water tower. The character arcs in "City at War" don't happen concurrently, so even though the water tower is shown being blown up before April learns that her dad is dead, that doesn't mean the events actually occurred in that order.

Weird, I know, but it's the only way to make it work.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

Reading through "City at War" for the site, I realized I totally botched where Tales #46 takes place.

It weirdly fits in-between story arcs in TMNT (Vol. 1) #56; after April's dad dies but before Karai blows up the water tower. The character arcs in "City at War" don't happen concurrently, so even though the water tower is shown being blown up before April learns that her dad is dead, that doesn't mean the events actually occurred in that order.

Weird, I know, but it's the only way to make it work.

I remember we had originally "no-prized" April's being in NYC by just assuming she was visiting her dad. Which is logical enough, seeing as he was on his deathbed. Although, glancing over it, some of her dialogue implies that she's back for good, even if she makes no direct reference to her father passing away.

Kind of frustrating that she was even in the issue... I guess that was Berger's way of getting us to like/trust Tomi before the big twist.

[DrSpengler]

Made a few more changes.

I put TMNT Vol. 1 #33 in the "Return to New York" era with red text denoting "guest era" canon. There really wasn't anything in it to discount it from the larger narrative and it even references TMNT #8. So it doesn't seem to be doing any harm.

More importantly, I moved Tales of the TMNT (Vol. 2) #57 from the beginning of "Mirage Vol. 3" to the end of "TMNT Vol. 2".

I did this because that story features the Turtles resolving a plot line from Vol. 2 in which they decide which lair to move to (church, farmhouse, apartment or sewer). They decide to split their time equally between all 4.

In the Image series, they've already made that choice and are seen in the apartment, the sewer and the church/mausoleum, so from a narrative standpoint, Tales #57 has to come before the Image series.

Of course, there's the whole matter of Shadow's age (she seems a few years younger in the Image series than in Tales #57), but there's nothing to be done about it.

I have a few stories tacked onto the end of the "TMNT Vol. 2" era that I may wind up shuffling around once I get there.

EDIT:

Never mind. Looking at Shadow's age in the "Gang Wars" era, she's still an infant being fed. It has no choice but to go after Image.

I guess this is one of those situations where the continuity of the Image series really IS incompatible with the continuity of the Mirage series. Ah well.

[DrSpengler]

And I moved "The Cure" down to the end of the Volume 2 era instead of right after Vol. 2 #5, as the fish-baby is shown to be a few months older than when we last saw it.

"The Cure" fits in better at the end of the era, anyway, as there are a lot of Tales Vol. 2 issues there that act as epilogues to TMNT Vol. 2 story arcs.

[oldmanwinters]

The timeline is always changing!

Maybe there was a secret untold tale of a Mirage Universe equivalent to DC's Zero Hour which semi-reset some of the various chronology of the timeline.

Seriously, though, keep up the good work, Spengs!

[Powder]

If I ever win the lotto, I'm gonna get myself a second set of every turtle comic ever so that I can put them in this order in my longboxes, haha.

On some other ish, is there an Archie timeline anywhere? I'll reluctantly admit I'm pretty lost on where a lot of stuff falls. Specials, mini-series', etc. If someone could jot a quick list of where all of that stuff falls and plop it into the first post or something, I'd be mega grateful. I wanna read through the series in perfect order sometime soon.

[DrSpengler]

Originally Posted by Powder

On some other ish, is there an Archie timeline anywhere? I'll reluctantly admit I'm pretty lost on where a lot of stuff falls. Specials, mini-series', etc. If someone could jot a quick list of where all of that stuff falls and plop it into the first post or something, I'd be mega grateful. I wanna read through the series in perfect order sometime soon.

As a matter of fact, I put one together a few months ago!

http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2012/...ontinuity.html

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

As a matter of fact, I put one together a few months ago!

http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2012/...ontinuity.html

Cool! I was trying to find this on your site, but couldn't figure out where to look. I don't think it's indexed under Archie Issues or tagged with Archie Comics, is it?

EDIT: Oops, you've got it under Articles:
http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2009/...-articles.html

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

Never mind. Looking at Shadow's age in the "Gang Wars" era, she's still an infant being fed. It has no choice but to go after Image.

I guess this is one of those situations where the continuity of the Image series really IS incompatible with the continuity of the Mirage series. Ah well.

If I remember correctly, Shadow's speech was pretty dumbed down in that issue. Not quite as intelligent as she was in the Image run.

She was definitely a toddler in the Gang Wars stuff, but couldn't "Gangs All Here" be pre-Image, just a good bit after the Gang Wars?

[Powder]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

As a matter of fact, I put one together a few months ago!

http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2012/...ontinuity.html

Oh wow, sweet! I dunno how I missed this (or did I somehow forget about it...?) but I'm quite happy to have it now. Thanks!

[DrSpengler]

One small change: I put "The Bait" before "The Decider". Mostly because "The Bait" treats Casey putting his mask back on as a "big" moment, as he's coming out of retirement to save Shadow. He wears his mask in "The Decider", but it's not given any spotlight, so narratively, I figured "The Bait" should go before "The Decider".

Speaking of "The Bait", I'm still vexed about the continuity of Shadow's age around the Volume 2 era and the Tales stories that take place in and around it.

When Shadow first appears in TMNT Vol. 2 #1, she's an infant with hardly any hair resting in her crib. When we see her again in issue #6, she's physically larger with longer hair, but still wearing a diaper, wobbling when she walks and rides in a kid's carseat. She doesn't speak at all throughout TMNT Vol. 2.

Stories like "The Bait" have her speaking, but in very broken, one-word phrases ("pin-ter", "da-da", etc). She's also drawn smaller and is shown in a stroller or carseat throughout the story.

I haven't gotten to "The Proposal" yet, but I think in that one Shadow is drawn to be REALLY young. The problem with placing stories like "The Bait" and "The Proposal" between "City at War" and Vol. 2 is that those issues have the Turtles all reunited and Splinter hanging in New York, which kind of disrupts the idea of the Turtles being estranged and Splinter confining himself to Northampton, at least from a narrative POV.

So I dunno. Shadow's age is all over the place and even the same artist (Lawson) doesn't seem to keep track of how physically developed she is. I think it might be something best regarded as "artist's interpretation".

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

When Shadow first appears in TMNT Vol. 2 #1, she's an infant with hardly any hair resting in her crib. When we see her again in issue #6, she's physically larger with longer hair, but still wearing a diaper, wobbling when she walks and rides in a kid's carseat. She doesn't speak at all throughout TMNT Vol. 2.

Stories like "The Bait" have her speaking, but in very broken, one-word phrases ("pin-ter", "da-da", etc). She's also drawn smaller and is shown in a stroller or carseat throughout the story.

I haven't gotten to "The Proposal" yet, but I think in that one Shadow is drawn to be REALLY young. The problem with placing stories like "The Bait" and "The Proposal" between "City at War" and Vol. 2 is that those issues have the Turtles all reunited and Splinter hanging in New York, which kind of disrupts the idea of the Turtles being estranged and Splinter confining himself to Northampton, at least from a narrative POV.

So I dunno. Shadow's age is all over the place and even the same artist (Lawson) doesn't seem to keep track of how physically developed she is. I think it might be something best regarded as "artist's interpretation".

Sounds like Mirage must have hired a variety of child actors to play Shadow's part over the years.

[DrSpengler]

Just reviewed the short "Community Service" from Tales Vol. 2 #9.

As a bit of thematic serendipity, it makes for a nice epilogue to the Gang Wars arc, with Casey telling a classroom full of teenagers why joining gangs is a bad idea. So I bumped it to the top of Mirage "Volume 3" (that way if you skip Image, you go directly from Gang Wars to "Community Service" and it's a nice segue into "Gangs All Here" and so on).

[jbeeman85]

I found your timeline quite a while ago and it opened my eyes as to not only how confusing the timeline is but exactly how many different issues it was going to take to complete my collection. Just as I thought I was closing in on completion, I stumbled upon the timeline and had to add several to my wishlist.

Amazing work by the way.

[Moleman]

This is going to help immensely when I get around to my Turtle binding project.

[Powder]

Binding? Whatcha talkin' bout?

[shuriken]

That's pretty cool. I find it interesting that a lot of my favorites happened around the same time (Twilight of the Ring, Hall of Legends, Sky highway)

[DrSpengler]

Alright, I made a couple changes after realizing I'd screwed up colossally in a few places.

Tales of the TMNT (Vol. 2) #2 shows how Splinter learned to astral project, so it HAS to take place before TMNT (Vol. 1) #9. Even though the Turtles look older in Tales #2 than in TMNT #9, the story in Tales makes it clear it must occur first. No way around it.

I also rearranged a few stories in there to break up the monotony of the string of back-ups, but it was just a superficial rearranging.


The bigger screw up was that I hadn't realized the Exile to Northampton spanned a full 2 years; I had always thought it was only one. But nope, it covers Christmas 86 to Christmas 88. Because I previously thought it was only a single year, I had arranged TMNT #14 at the end of the era due to the heavy Winter setting. Turns out its placement as smackdab in the middle of the era was entirely correct.

So I moved that back and fixed all my links. D'oh!

I'm also shuffling around some of the stories in the TMNT Vol. 4 era that take place during the 6 month gap. Again, though, it's mostly superficial rearranging; breaking up the chunk of Donatello stories with stories starring some of the other Turtles, etc.

But yeah, even after all these years I'm still catching some big mistakes.

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

Alright, I made a couple changes after realizing I'd screwed up colossally in a few places.

Tales of the TMNT (Vol. 2) #2 shows how Splinter learned to astral project, so it HAS to take place before TMNT (Vol. 1) #9. Even though the Turtles look older in Tales #2 than in TMNT #9, the story in Tales makes it clear it must occur first. No way around it.

Wait; is Tales #2 specifically the first instance of his astral projecting? It's been a while since I've read it, but I thought it was something he was already implied to be familiar with.

Also, isn't it weird that the Foot Mystics are targeting him before he's even come into conflict with Shredder in that case? I thought all those stories were at least post-Vol. 1 #1.

[DrSpengler]

Originally Posted by Cipher

Wait; is Tales #2 specifically the first instance of his astral projecting? It's been a while since I've read it, but I thought it was something he was already implied to be familiar with.

Also, isn't it weird that the Foot Mystics are targeting him before he's even come into conflict with Shredder in that case? I thought all those stories were at least post-Vol. 1 #1.

Yeah, in the story Myzoko challenges Splinter and Splinter spends the first few pages studying how to astral project. When he confronts Myzoko on the astral plane, Myzoko is impressed he could learn such an advanced technique so quickly.

Myzoko doesn't know that Splinter has any connection to the Foot, as when they fight, Myzoko is surprised to see Splinter using Foot techniques and gets confused.

At the end, we learn that the Foot Mystics sent Myzoko to challenge Splinter as an initiation test, but they only refer to Splinter as "the rat". I guess there's no telling if they knew Splinter's connection to their clan prior to that or not, but Splinter seems to be under the belief that the Foot don't know he exists at the start of the story (when Myzoko challenges him, he's upset that the Foot have found him out).


Honestly, I think the reason the continuity in this story is so confused is because it was originally written as a pitch to the Dreamwave TMNT comic based on the 4Kids cartoon and Murphy didn't really adapt it enough for the Mirage universe when rewriting it for Tales.