Opinion on TMNT 2007

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by neatoman

I would say the problems with TMNT III goes well beyond being "bland". I can't honestly look at all the pointless scenes in that movie and say it's just bland. If you cut out all the stuff that goes nowhere and isn't important, the movie would be... What? 40 minutes long?

I guess, but if nothing else it's some fun character work. I like character stuff.

It almost feels like someone wrote a bunch of scenes of the Turtles just screwing around and decided to staple it into a movie.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by neatoman

I would say the problems with TMNT III goes well beyond being "bland". I can't honestly look at all the pointless scenes in that movie and say it's just bland. If you cut out all the stuff that goes nowhere and isn't important, the movie would be... What? 40 minutes long?

For me TMNT II and III largely have what the other lacks.

Secret Of The Ooze had the better animatronics and all round production values and benefits greatly for being much more in line with what the general audience expected from a TMNT movie at the time ie: Shredder, Foot Clan, Mutants, modern NYC setting etc.

The third movie has more of an emphasis on the turtles characters, a better all round plot and action were the turtles even get to use their weapons.

I think III would always suffer for not being exactly what people expected of TMNT at the time but if it had the the second sequels suits and say Norinaga was not played for laughs and was an actual threat I could see it being better recieved. Imagine it climaxed with a rooftop battle between the turtles and a fully armored Norinaga mirroring the turtles vs Shredder fight from the 1990 movie. Heck you could even add in he's Saki's ancestor or some kind of origin of the Foot Clan plot similar to Masks which seemingly inspired it.

[Leo656]

Did a radioactive spider bite you in your sleep, brother? You're making a ton of good points today on multiple fronts!

Those are all things I wish I'd said.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Galactus

For me TMNT II and III largely have what the other lacks.

Secret Of The Ooze had the better animatronics and all round production values and benefits greatly for being much more in line with what the general audience expected from a TMNT movie at the time ie: Shredder, Foot Clan, Mutants, modern NYC setting etc.

The third movie has more of an emphasis on the turtles characters, a better all round plot and action were the turtles even get to use their weapons.

I think III would always suffer for not being exactly what people expected of TMNT at the time but if it had the the second sequels suits and say Norinaga was not played for laughs and was an actual threat I could see it being better recieved. Imagine it climaxed with a rooftop battle between the turtles and a fully armored Norinaga mirroring the turtles vs Shredder fight from the 1990 movie. Heck you could even add in he's Saki's ancestor or some kind of origin of the Foot Clan plot similar to Masks which seemingly inspired it.

That sounds like a badass finale. Of course, it would take more work throughout the movie to make it worth it, but I love the concept.

TMNT III is just so...weird. I feel uncomfortable whenever Walker shows up on screen.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Did a radioactive spider bite you in your sleep, brother? You're making a ton of good points today on multiple fronts!

Those are all things I wish I'd said.

My spider sense did warn me of danger just before you offered to give me a hand job.

Originally Posted by AquaParade

That sounds like a badass finale. Of course, it would take more work throughout the movie to make it worth it, but I love the concept.

TMNT III is just so...weird. I feel uncomfortable whenever Walker shows up on screen.

Yeah tonally it would have to be a bit darker throughout to make Norinaga seem menacing enough to take on all four turtles but you could still have the goofy humour. I quite like Casey and the honour guards playing 'hockey' and at the bar.

[AquaParade]

Man, I always forget that Casey is in the third movie. Probably because I've not seen it many times. But I do recall the feeling I got last time I was reminded. It's like "oh, thank god. Someone I know has arrived to the party" kinda feeling.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Fight was good. Wrong guy went over.

They clearly booked that one for the fangirls.

Is it wrong that I actually forgot who won that fight? I've only seen the film once and remember liking the fight, but can't recall the outcome of it.

So, would you say the booking was done by Vince here?

Originally Posted by Leo656

It's probably the third-best movie, maybe fourth if you count Turtles Forever in the conversation, but it's a low bar.

TMNT 1990: Really good movie.
SotO: Pretty okay kids movie.
TMNT III: Inoffensive, but bland.
2K7: Fun, nothing really "wrong" with it, but overcooked and forgettable.
Turtles Forever: Really good, but pisses off FW apologists and less enticing to people who didn't watch the 2K3 series.
PD TMNT: WTF is this sh*t?
OotS: No, seriously, WTF IS this sh*t???

Aaaaaaaand that's the way the story goes.

I guess I'm one of those "apologists". I know the OT series was silly, but they didn't act the way the OT turtles did in Turtles Forever. They all felt...well, silly or off and like they couldn't take anything seriously. If the turtles had a some situation going on in the original series, they treated it like a threat if it was a threat. They also seemed to laugh at their own jokes in Turtles Forever and that was even stranger because characters like Leo wasn't the joking type (they had an ep or two about how boring Leo was in general for the OT series). He was the serious type and to an extent, so was Donny...who was also kind of bossy and acted more like the leader than Leo at times. Raph was the one to make wise-ass jokes and he would never laugh at an insult geared towards himself.

So yeah, to me, Turtles Forever didn't portray the OT turtles very well at all. The first crossover for the 2012 series seemed to get them mostly right even with legit criticisms of the original series (like how they used the items around them to fight at times compared to the 2012 series where they used their weapons more...although 2k12 Splinter did say that anything can be used as a weapon...). The second crossover (which I felt was unnecessary from the get-go and shouldn't have happened), felt like it was going into Turtles Forever territory, only not as bad as Turtles Forever.

Not sure if the 2k3 Turtles were off in their portrayals, though since I still haven't seen it. For all I know, they could've been off too.

[Torterra]

For me I really enjoyed the movie growing up I can see why some people wouldn't like it with the whole 13 monsters and making the foot clan a bunch of henchmen for the main villain instead of being the actual villains of the movie. But I'll say it's a good movie not the greatest , not the worst , but the most okay-ish like 7 out of 10 I do agree with some of you on the whole Mikey and Donnie getting the short end of the stick in this movie focusing more on Leo's and Raph's relationship. But I really do like animation and the art style especially for the city they really gave New York that dark, gritty look especially any scene with neon lights. This also gave us one the funniest fights with Raphael vs the Jersey Devil.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Torterra

For me I really enjoyed the movie growing up I can see why some people wouldn't like it with the whole 13 monsters and making the foot clan a bunch of henchmen for the main villain instead of being the actual villains of the movie. But I'll say it's a good movie not the greatest , not the worst , but the most okay-ish like 7 out of 10 I do agree with some of you on the whole Mikey and Donnie getting the short end of the stick in this movie focusing more on Leo's and Raph's relationship. But I really do like animation and the art style especially for the city they really gave New York that dark, gritty look especially any scene with neon lights. This also gave us one the funniest fights with Raphael vs the Jersey Devil.

Donny and Mikey being cast aside was a negative for me with this film. It was all about Leo and Raph. I felt this way about the Archie comics too...I felt that Leo and Mikey could've been given some more focus.

[Galactus]

Apart from the noogies which I thought was a reference to TMNT III literally everything the '87 turtles did in Turtles Forever is a reference to something that they did in the Fred Wolf animated series.

They definitely focused on working all of those in elements at the expense of their overall characterisation on the show but this was clearly done to provide a contrast with the 2k3 turtles. True, it wasn't accurate to what the '87 turtles were most of the time but it wasn't some huge insult to the the Fred Wolf characters and show people think. If anything it shows how much research they did to pick out individual silly moments to recreate.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Galactus

My spider sense did warn me of danger just before you offered to give me a hand job.

In my own defense, my wife got some absolutely killer "Adult Herbal Refreshments" today so I feel like it'll be a miracle if I remember anything from Today by Tomorrow.

In the meantime, take it as a compliment, Squire!

Originally Posted by ssjup81

Is it wrong that I actually forgot who won that fight? I've only seen the film once and remember liking the fight, but can't recall the outcome of it.

So, would you say the booking was done by Vince here?
I guess I'm one of those "apologists". I know the OT series was silly, but they didn't act the way the OT turtles did in Turtles Forever. They all felt...well, silly or off and like they couldn't take anything seriously. If the turtles had a some situation going on in the original series, they treated it like a threat if it was a threat. They also seemed to laugh at their own jokes in Turtles Forever and that was even stranger because characters like Leo wasn't the joking type (they had an ep or two about how boring Leo was in general for the OT series). He was the serious type and to an extent, so was Donny...who was also kind of bossy and acted more like the leader than Leo at times. Raph was the one to make wise-ass jokes and he would never laugh at an insult geared towards himself.

So yeah, to me, Turtles Forever didn't portray the OT turtles very well at all. The first crossover for the 2012 series seemed to get them mostly right even with legit criticisms of the original series (like how they used the items around them to fight at times compared to the 2012 series where they used their weapons more...although 2k12 Splinter did say that anything can be used as a weapon...). The second crossover (which I felt was unnecessary from the get-go and shouldn't have happened), felt like it was going into Turtles Forever territory, only not as bad as Turtles Forever.

Not sure if the 2k3 Turtles were off in their portrayals, though since I still haven't seen it. For all I know, they could've been off too.

Vince McMahon or Vince Russo, either way.

And it was Raph with the Hyper Uppercut, which was some ol' buuuuullsh*t. I get why they did it, but eh.

Regarding the FW TMNT in Forever... I knooooowwwwwww. I'm not saying they didn't take the FW characters' lesser traits to a certain... extreme. But all told, it was a 2K3 movie and the FW Turtles were just guest-starring. And from the very earliest episodes of 2K3, "F*CK that other cartoon" was ingrained in the DNA. It wasn't always outright hostile, but a LOT of the writing and creative choices of that show, were a direct rebuke of the original show. So it's only to be expected that when the FW Turtles show up in a vehicle that's always been all about taking the piss out of them from the first jump, they're not gonna be given much of a "shine".

Plus, disregarding all that, the strong contrast makes the humor of the piece more direct. Yeah, they overdid it a bit for effect. But I liked it. I don't even hate FW like some do, or as I've sometimes been accused of. I just felt like it worked great for what they were aiming for.

It'd be like if Justice League Unlimited did a Super-Friends cross-over movie, and in it, "Super-Friends" Superman just constantly got incapacitated by Kryptonite or otherwise done away with, and all he did was sit around yelling for help while Batman and the others did all the work. Did that happen ALL the time on Super-Friends? No, but it happened a lot, way more than it ever should have, and I would have totally gotten the gag and I totally would have popped for it, favorite character or no. "Man, Superman, that other you is a Super-Putz!" "...Shut up, Flash."

Originally Posted by Galactus

Apart from the noogies which I thought was a reference to TMNT III literally everything the '87 turtles did in Turtles Forever is a reference to something that they did in the Fred Wolf animated series.

They definitely focused on working all of those in elements at the expense of their overall characterisation on the show but this was clearly done to provide a contrast with the 2k3 turtles. True, it wasn't accurate to what the '87 turtles were most of the time but it wasn't some huge insult to the the Fred Wolf characters and show people think. If anything it shows how much research they did to pick out individual silly moments to recreate.

Aaaaaaaand ANOTHER dunk! The f*ck you puttin' in your cereal, boy?

[ABrown]

Absolutely loved the 2007 CGI movie. Like the 4Kids series, it very much feels like how the TMNT should be portrayed.

[Torterra]

Originally Posted by Leo656

In my own defense, my wife got some absolutely killer "Adult Herbal Refreshments" today so I feel like it'll be a miracle if I remember anything from Today by Tomorrow.

In the meantime, take it as a compliment, Squire!



Vince McMahon or Vince Russo, either way.

And it was Raph with the Hyper Uppercut, which was some ol' buuuuullsh*t. I get why they did it, but eh.

Regarding the FW TMNT in Forever... I knooooowwwwwww. I'm not saying they didn't take the FW characters' lesser traits to a certain... extreme. But all told, it was a 2K3 movie and the FW Turtles were just guest-starring. And from the very earliest episodes of 2K3, "F*CK that other cartoon" was ingrained in the DNA. It wasn't always outright hostile, but a LOT of the writing and creative choices of that show, were a direct rebuke of the original show. So it's only to be expected that when the FW Turtles show up in a vehicle that's always been all about taking the piss out of them from the first jump, they're not gonna be given much of a "shine".

Plus, disregarding all that, the strong contrast makes the humor of the piece more direct. Yeah, they overdid it a bit for effect. But I liked it. I don't even hate FW like some do, or as I've sometimes been accused of. I just felt like it worked great for what they were aiming for.

It'd be like if Justice League Unlimited did a Super-Friends cross-over movie, and in it, "Super-Friends" Superman just constantly got incapacitated by Kryptonite or otherwise done away with, and all he did was sit around yelling for help while Batman and the others did all the work. Did that happen ALL the time on Super-Friends? No, but it happened a lot, way more than it ever should have, and I would have totally gotten the gag and I totally would have popped for it, favorite character or no. "Man, Superman, that other you is a Super-Putz!" "...Shut up, Flash."



Aaaaaaaand ANOTHER dunk! The f*ck you puttin' in your cereal, boy?

Yeah I liked Turtles Forever when I first saw it I really didn't know anything about the FW turtles besides they were a lot more goofy compared to the 2003 turtles. But watching a few episodes of the FW turtles when I was older I can see why some fans would be rubbed the wrong towards Forever's interpretation of them. But I don't think it wasn't as bad as some would see it, were the FW turtles a little too goofy ? yeah a little, but they did have serious moments, really funny moments (the fourth wall breaks) and they did have moments where they did shine.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

I remember seeing TMNT at the cinema when it originally came out. I went with my Mam. I enjoyed it at the time, though in more recent viewings I haven't really liked it that much.

It's ok, but the plot is barely one that fits TMNT.

[victory_angel]

I liked this story, but I felt that instead of focusing on fighting the monsters and the Foot Clan. Focus on how Leo's absence is affecting them rather consolidating that all into some tie in comic book stories that people might not actually read.

Even then Raph and Leo's comic book stories were the most compelling while Donatello's just introduces them to one of the 13 monsters. And April's comic book just hints at the Generals.

So maybe instead of having that long opening where Forest Whitaker is talking about how they all eventually took down the Shredder and blah.

Raph comic book has them all tracking down some Triceraton's, but its kinda dumb to have them villain group that hasn't been introduced yet in the movies. He sees an old guy getting beat up and tells his brothers they should help. Leo objects saying that they can't because they are not supposed to involve themselves in human problems.
Raph slips away to go help the old man who he learns is named David. Days later Raph hears gunshots coming from David's place and finds the old man dying on the floor. David then tells Raph about something he has hidden before he dies which turns out to be the Nightwatcher Costume.

Leo's comic book just follows a concept called the five-fold path. Because before he leaves Splinter tells him the "Five-fold path would lead to the one" which leads him to various places around the world learn what he needs to learn. Part of which has him meet the Ninja Tribunal and the Ancient One who basicly tell him he failed his journey because he abandonded his family.
On his Journey he learns the concept of Courage, Compassion, Selflessness, Humility, and Community which leads to the one which is family.

Most of what Donnie and Mikey do in the prequils are starting up Cowabunga Carl's, which Donnie uses to help fund their family and help him pay for equipment for his Science Projects.

In addtion to Raph being the Red Oni to Leo's Blue Oni, Donnie also should have had his moment to vent about Leo's absence since he was the One that was leading the team in Leo's absence and everything fell apart on his watch.

[Galactus]

Speaking of the comic tie ins I remember Tristan Jones saying that they were the best selling TMNT comics in years.

I'd like to think that if Mirage knew they'd be so successful they'd have gone for more (shall we say) marketable creative teams and published them in colour. I don't know how true it is but I've read there is not much cost difference between publishing a black and white book with tones to a colour one so I'd definitely pushed for colour.

The video game also did very well. Ubisoft was so happy with the sales that they said they would have done a sequel game even if there was no sequel to the movie which ended up becoming Smash Up.

Thinking about it this little good but not great movie did quite well by the franchise. I don't think anyone capitalised on it the way they could have.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Galactus

Speaking of the comic tie ins I remember Tristan Jones saying that they were the best selling TMNT comics in years.

I'd like to think that if Mirage knew they'd be so successful they'd have gone for more (shall we say) marketable creative teams and published them in colour. I don't know how true it is but I've read there is not much cost difference between publishing a black and white book with tones to a colour one so I'd definitely pushed for colour.

The video game also did very well. Ubisoft was so happy with the sales that they said they would have done a sequel game even if there was no sequel to the movie which ended up becoming Smash Up.

Thinking about it this little good but not great movie did quite well by the franchise. I don't think anyone capitalised on it the way they could have.

There were certainly plans for the sequels that sounded interesting. The first would center on Michelangelo feeling like he's the only one who doesn't fit in so he finds himself going to Karai and she tells him perhaps the Foot Clan is where he belongs.

While the next sequel would have things like the Technodrome and the Triceratons and Donatello would be a catalyst in that.

That could be why they are focusing on Raph and Leo so much in the first Movie while having Donnie and Mikey had the background roles of being the brains behind everything and comic relief.

The main issue with the 2007 movie is that it was written as though it expected the people watching to have some idea of what had gone on prior to this. They don't need to explain and establish who the characters are too much since the majority of the people going to see that film would have some familiarity with the franchise. And they were implying that this film was connected to the original film universe.

The problem is the last film of the original film universe was in 1993...this movie is set in 2007. So it would be more appropriate for them to have just started it out as a new Universe and recreate the characters to introduce people who less familiar with the franchise to the cast, while still leaving enough things established enough that people already familiar with the cast and personalities of the characters can just enjoy the ride.

[Galactus]

We've had this discussion a few times on here. While established fans want to skip to the good stuff origin movies are necessary especially with a franchise like this which varies so much from version to version.

Kevin Munroe detailed the whole Mikey joins the Foot pitch of his. It would be interesting to see just how much that would be played for laughs vs how much they'd take the concept seriously.

The Triceratons and Technodrome one I've also heard as a third movie. The Technodrome is one of the few Fred Wolf things that Peter Laird said he actually likes so I would have been curious to see if he'd green light it. My gut tells me no.

Of course all this would be dependent on WB being okay with these ideas and I'd imagine after that very obvious tease at the end of the first movie whatever the followed up with would have Shredder as the main villain.

We know even after Mirage passed on another cgi movie in favour of a live action one Imagi were still working on potential pitch for another TMNT film and made up a mock poster with Shredder in the background and Mikey looking at his demutated brothers and Splinter.

If nothing else these pitched showed they were interesting in giving Michelangelo more of a spotlight and possibly Don too if they were eventually going to do a sci fi movie.

[Leo656]

I'm sorry, Mikey even entertaining the notion of joining the Foot clan after ostensibly fighting them a bunch of times and them openly trying to kill him rather often is just a dumb idea. I always hate when those storylines creep up. "Sorry about all the times we almost murdered each other! Just business brah!" Hate it. Sounds intriguing on the surface and falls apart completely after two seconds of rational thought. I know Mikey's generally "The Dumb One", but I would hope he would be smarter and more savvy than to fall for something like THAT. Sting trusting Ric Flair made more sense, and it didn't make any. "Ohhhh, of course the guys who spent 100% of their time for several years trying to cripple Sting eventually turned on and tried to cripple Sting, again." It makes the "babyface" look like a total moron for ever being so trusting and naive. Just blech.

I can see why they'd give Mikey a more prominent storyline in a movie, but that's just a bad idea on its face.

[Galactus]

I think Image pulled it off well enough with Raph joining the Foot Clan. It made a certain amount of sense there since they were carrying on from the Mirage were there was a firm truce after City At War and since the turtles are not crime fighters in the Mirage continuity you could see why he could work with the criminals like the Foot. Of course that story also showed why it wouldn't work out long term because Raph does have a conscience.

It doesn't seem that the turtles and Foot have a truce or any kind of relationship that isn't acrimonious. Not to mention the Imagi turtles are definitely crime fighters so they would never work with criminals.

The whole idea of Mikey realising he isn't as good of a ninja as his brothers is an interesting one but joining the Foot to train with them sounds like complete overkill. Not as much as Donatello going to a whole other universe to learn from Bruce Wayne for the same reason in the second Batman/TMNT crossover but definitely close.