What is honestly better about OotS than the first?

*neatoman* · 07-29-2017, 01:32 PM

Alright, so it's been over a year now and I get the impression that the general consensus now is that both of these movies are just awful. Anyone who claimed to really like one of them seem to have changed their mind or been uprooted. What I don't get, are the people who still claim the second movie was an improvement over the first one. How was it a better movie?

The first one is not a good movie by any stretch of the imagination but at least there was set-up, payoff, minimal character motivation, acceptable pacing, only really juggled one plotline and if nothing else it was short for a movie of it's time.

The second one is longer, has sub-plots that go nowhere, concepts that aren't given satisfying any explaination, one villain who does nothing, another who is given very little screentime and two really annoying villains.

How is it better? It's just an even bigger mess.

*ProphetofGanja* · 07-29-2017, 01:40 PM

I fully agree, they both suck

*IndigoErth* · 07-29-2017, 02:01 PM

Neither of them are good movies and are hugely flawed for separate reasons (with some shared reasons in the middle).

Personally, I prefer the second, primarily because it put the focus on the brothers as the stars of it (not halfassed April), the relationships between them (somewhat), tried to show a minuscule amount of down time with them, they look better in better lighting and tweaks to the models, Leo's vocal acting is better with Pete (for various reasons imo) and they did more with him than just have him present... and whatever else I'm forgetting.

That does not forgive it for the flaws, esp in a very lazy story, Casey, etc... but it did at least do a bunch of things (as mentioned) that I'd hoped for and, most importantly, did not leave me walking out feeling depressed like the first one did. (I'm sure getting some things I hoped for helped.) Feeling like "best movie ever"? God no... but I'd at least prefer not to feel depressed over it, even if some elements deserved an eye roll.

The only real subplot I see happening in the second - though imo it is very vague and you gotta pay attention to it to even pick up on it - is what's going on with Leo and his dealing with the failure of stopping Shredder from escaping, his disappointment in how he thinks they are not performing together as a team well (hit on by the opening training stuff, his comments after they go down the water fall, in the plane, etc), and the fear of how this new "it could turn us human!" ooze could tear them apart...all while Splinter told him that if he keeps the team together they'll always succeed. (And we know failing the last thing this guy wants to keep doing.) Stuff is bugging him for a good amount of the movie if you keep an eye on him... I give them a little credit that they keep this going with him and being vague isn't really a bad thing as its fun to pick up on it if you look hard enough, but it would have been nice to have at least one other subplot that is a bit more obvious and actually goes somewhere.

*ToTheNines* · 07-29-2017, 02:22 PM

Not to mention all violence was pretty much avoided. It sucked way harder.

*FredWolfLeonardo* · 07-29-2017, 03:02 PM

Well, the second one does have alot more screentime and focus on the turtles rather than April, and I think the voice cast/performances of the turtles were pretty well done, as if they really were brothers. And the turtles themselves are better than the first, having more distinct personalities rather than just all being Michelangalo and having more colourful and cartoony designs than the last film.

Other than the turtles, my reasons for liking Oots more than the first are the side characters. I really enjoyed Bebop, Rocksteady and Baxter Stockman in Oots and found them really memorable.

The only things I like better from the first film is the plot and April's connection to the turtles which wasn't there as much in oots, in favour of reducing April into seducing Mad scientists in schoolgirl outfits.

*snake* · 07-29-2017, 03:35 PM

This one has more to make fun of.

*Powder* · 07-29-2017, 03:35 PM

April wasn't the star of OOTS, that alone makes it superior, to me. But like FWL said, the turtles themselves are seen more & done a little bit better in general, + Bebop/Rocksteady weren't half bad. Loses major points for the Casey Jones botch-job, though, among other more obvious errors. I just find it easier to watch. 2014 is just bad, whereas 2016 is nearing the "so bad it's good" territory. Originally, the awfulness just hurt, it made me angry, but on the second go it was almost self-aware in its stupidity, so I was able to laugh a few times.

The first movie is darker & more violent, which I appreciate about it in comparison, but it was tonally all over the place, riddled with plot-holes, too many human leads, etc. Its sequel was goofy as hell, but at least it was consistent in that regard, focused on the turtles, & tried to pick up some slack by pandering to Fred Wolf fans (which I normally hate, but it helped, in their case, IMO).

Lest there be any confusion, I think they're both garbage. But I re-watched OOTS, & wish never to re-watch its predecessor. Well, I'd peep a fan-edit that cuts out a lot of stuff, but that's it.

~~mrmaczaps~~ · 07-29-2017, 03:41 PM

The first one was like a drunk driving bumper cars on steroids.

The second film was as pointless as one of the later Fred Wolf cartoon episodes times 4... but it made me laugh a few times so thats about all it had going for it.

I'm sure I'll get some grief despite this being a thread started as "these movies sucked" and I didn't start it... lol

Ulisa · 07-29-2017, 03:48 PM

For me, it's the turtles themselves. We actually get time in OOTS to learn more about them and really see how they interact with one another. When I watch a TMNT movie, I want to see the Turtles primarily and not April O'Neil. The turtles felt almost lij guest stars in the first one so that was a welcomed change for the second.

There were a few moments that I really enjoyed in the second one: "Not a monster" scene, some of the interactions between Leonardo and his brothers and as cheesy as it is, I do love the "no one messes with Mikey" scene. BeBop and Rocksteady made me laugh as did Baxter Stockman.

It's hardly a masterpiece but it entertained me far better than the first one did.

*IndigoErth* · 07-29-2017, 04:49 PM

I think one of my favorite parts really is the ending. People panned it at first, thinking it was going to be the Turtles outed, but since it takes place ONLY with the members of the police force who are now aware of them, and not the public at large, I'm okay with that. Wrapping it up with the Turtles receiving 'keys to the city,' which would surely mean a lot to them, was kind of sweet really.

Plus the final shot of them up there in the torch of the Statue of Liberty. Probably kind of a cliche way to close it, but since it's a local historical monument they'd probably never gotten the real opportunity to check out, it's cute. Just wish we'd gotten to follow them up there, climbing all those stairs. (Missed opportunity to have Mikey start to whine about it. lol)

07-29-2017, 01:40 PM	#2
ProphetofGanja Dub Professor Join Date: May 2013 Location: Dub Side of the Moon Posts: 3,442	I fully agree, they both suck __________________ "We've been frantically trying to reach you, Dude."

07-29-2017, 02:01 PM	#3
IndigoErth Team Blue Boy Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: U.S., East Coast Posts: 15,242	Neither of them are good movies and are hugely flawed for separate reasons (with some shared reasons in the middle). Personally, I prefer the second, primarily because it put the focus on the brothers as the stars of it (not halfassed April), the relationships between them (somewhat), tried to show a minuscule amount of down time with them, they look better in better lighting and tweaks to the models, Leo's vocal acting is better with Pete (for various reasons imo) and they did more with him than just have him present... and whatever else I'm forgetting. That does not forgive it for the flaws, esp in a very lazy story, Casey, etc... but it did at least do a bunch of things (as mentioned) that I'd hoped for and, most importantly, did not leave me walking out feeling depressed like the first one did. (I'm sure getting some things I hoped for helped.) Feeling like "best movie ever"? God no... but I'd at least prefer not to feel depressed over it, even if some elements deserved an eye roll. The only real subplot I see happening in the second - though imo it is very vague and you gotta pay attention to it to even pick up on it - is what's going on with Leo and his dealing with the failure of stopping Shredder from escaping, his disappointment in how he thinks they are not performing together as a team well (hit on by the opening training stuff, his comments after they go down the water fall, in the plane, etc), and the fear of how this new "it could turn us human!" ooze could tear them apart...all while Splinter told him that if he keeps the team together they'll always succeed. (And we know failing the last thing this guy wants to keep doing.) Stuff is bugging him for a good amount of the movie if you keep an eye on him... I give them a little credit that they keep this going with him and being vague isn't really a bad thing as its fun to pick up on it if you look hard enough, but it would have been nice to have at least one other subplot that is a bit more obvious and actually goes somewhere. Last edited by IndigoErth; 07-29-2017 at 02:25 PM.

07-29-2017, 03:35 PM	#7
Powder So tired of this place Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shell Ri La Posts: 26,809	April wasn't the star of OOTS, that alone makes it superior, to me. But like FWL said, the turtles themselves are seen more & done a little bit better in general, + Bebop/Rocksteady weren't half bad. Loses major points for the Casey Jones botch-job, though, among other more obvious errors. I just find it easier to watch. 2014 is just bad, whereas 2016 is nearing the "so bad it's good" territory. Originally, the awfulness just hurt, it made me angry, but on the second go it was almost self-aware in its stupidity, so I was able to laugh a few times. The first movie is darker & more violent, which I appreciate about it in comparison, but it was tonally all over the place, riddled with plot-holes, too many human leads, etc. Its sequel was goofy as hell, but at least it was consistent in that regard, focused on the turtles, & tried to pick up some slack by pandering to Fred Wolf fans (which I normally hate, but it helped, in their case, IMO). Lest there be any confusion, I think they're both garbage. But I re-watched OOTS, & wish never to re-watch its predecessor. Well, I'd peep a fan-edit that cuts out a lot of stuff, but that's it. __________________ I'm convinced that none of you have ever experienced joy

07-29-2017, 02:22 PM	#4
ToTheNines [sic] Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 15,098	Not to mention all violence was pretty much avoided. It sucked way harder.

07-29-2017, 03:02 PM	#5
FredWolfLeonardo Big Blue Boy Scout Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: New Bark Town Posts: 4,475	Well, the second one does have alot more screentime and focus on the turtles rather than April, and I think the voice cast/performances of the turtles were pretty well done, as if they really were brothers. And the turtles themselves are better than the first, having more distinct personalities rather than just all being Michelangalo and having more colourful and cartoony designs than the last film. Other than the turtles, my reasons for liking Oots more than the first are the side characters. I really enjoyed Bebop, Rocksteady and Baxter Stockman in Oots and found them really memorable. The only things I like better from the first film is the plot and April's connection to the turtles which wasn't there as much in oots, in favour of reducing April into seducing Mad scientists in schoolgirl outfits.

07-29-2017, 03:35 PM	#6
snake Disgusting Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Outer Heaven Posts: 12,230	This one has more to make fun of.

07-29-2017, 03:41 PM	#8
~~mrmaczaps~~ Banned Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Maine Posts: 2,619	The first one was like a drunk driving bumper cars on steroids. The second film was as pointless as one of the later Fred Wolf cartoon episodes times 4... but it made me laugh a few times so thats about all it had going for it. I'm sure I'll get some grief despite this being a thread started as "these movies sucked" and I didn't start it... lol

07-29-2017, 03:48 PM	#9
Ulisa Foot Soldier Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Various Fantasy Realms Posts: 145	For me, it's the turtles themselves. We actually get time in OOTS to learn more about them and really see how they interact with one another. When I watch a TMNT movie, I want to see the Turtles primarily and not April O'Neil. The turtles felt almost lij guest stars in the first one so that was a welcomed change for the second. There were a few moments that I really enjoyed in the second one: "Not a monster" scene, some of the interactions between Leonardo and his brothers and as cheesy as it is, I do love the "no one messes with Mikey" scene. BeBop and Rocksteady made me laugh as did Baxter Stockman. It's hardly a masterpiece but it entertained me far better than the first one did.

07-29-2017, 04:49 PM	#10
IndigoErth Team Blue Boy Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: U.S., East Coast Posts: 15,242	I think one of my favorite parts really is the ending. People panned it at first, thinking it was going to be the Turtles outed, but since it takes place ONLY with the members of the police force who are now aware of them, and not the public at large, I'm okay with that. Wrapping it up with the Turtles receiving 'keys to the city,' which would surely mean a lot to them, was kind of sweet really. Plus the final shot of them up there in the torch of the Statue of Liberty. Probably kind of a cliche way to close it, but since it's a local historical monument they'd probably never gotten the real opportunity to check out, it's cute. Just wish we'd gotten to follow them up there, climbing all those stairs. (Missed opportunity to have Mikey start to whine about it. lol)