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Old 11-08-2017, 08:09 PM   #1
Spike Spiegel
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Do animated superhero shows get enough respect?

The recent DCEU and MCU threads made me start thinking about the animated versions of these characters--some of which have already covered the ground that is planned by these big franchises.
  • Despite all the hoopla over Hulk in Thor: Ragnarok, people don't seem to realize there was a Planet Hulk movie almost a decade ago.
  • A Wonder Woman animated film that treated the character seriously has existed since 2009.
  • The Bruce Timm/Paul Dini DCAU was going God's work 25 years ago. Most of you are old enough to remember it, so I won't burden you with an explanation.
  • Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes introduced a variety of characters into a sprawling Marvel animated universe that included the Fantastic Four and X-Men. They adapted "Secret Invasion," "The Korvac Saga," and other well-known stories. It even had Carol Danvers in a prominent role.
  • The 1990s X-Men show adapted storylines faithfully and kept the characters intact. Also, in 2009's Wolverine and the X-Men, we saw an adult team that had to survive without the aid of the Professor.
  • Spectacular Spider-Man built on the awareness generated by the Raimi movies without feeling like a retread. Obscure villains were introduced in ways that weren't silly, Norman Osborn was terrifyingly Machiavellian, and we had Gwen Stacy, Black Cat, and MJ.
  • 2009's Hulk vs. gave us a snarky, gleefully murdering Deadpool and a no-holds-barred version of Wolverine.
  • DC's Animated Universe line has given us a variety of interpretations of well known stories and characters since 2007. Young Justice and Green Lantern: The Animated Series were also pretty good.
  • Transformers Prime and other recent adaptations of that material take more risks in terms of story than their Michael Bay produced counterparts.
  • The 2003 and 2012 TMNT cartoons clearly have more to offer than the Michael Bay produced film versions.

Those are just a few examples, I'm sure others can come up with more.

In the mind of the average media consumer, do these things only count as something to be widely viewed and appreciated when they are live action and cost hundreds of millions of dollars to make?
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Old 11-08-2017, 08:10 PM   #2
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Well in terms of Internet circles yes however when it comes more to the average viewer most adults see cartoons as kids stuff barring "adult animation"
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Old 11-08-2017, 08:31 PM   #3
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Nah, Batman: TAS is the only show that gained a following among adults, simply because everyone who was a kid in the 90's when it first aired is now an adult. Other cartoons either didn't age as well and the movies they put on DVD are too obscure.

And yeah, the west still has a stigma that "cartoons are for kids." I mean far less people would see an animated Batman movie in theaters over a live-action one. They actually put Mask of the Phantasm in theaters back in the 90's, it's considered one of the best Batman movies ever made, and it completely bombed. And that's back when B:TAS was the current cartoon on the air.
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:05 PM   #4
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Nah, Batman: TAS is the only show that gained a following among adults, simply because everyone who was a kid in the 90's when it first aired is now an adult.
plus Batman the Animated series was following a very similar vibe to the 1989 Tim Burton Batman movie, which was hugely popular.
that gained it a very large adult fanbase at the time of release.

the series had fully scored episodes, brilliant writing and A-list voice talent.

i'd say these are the largest reasons for the series continued success.

even though some of the direct to video comic movies are very good,
they never quite reach the same level of quality of the original few seasons of Btas series.

even Bruce Tim's Superman animated series, New Adventures of Batman, and Justice League/Justice League Unlimited
aren't made of the same quality as his first run of Batman cartoons.
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:14 PM   #5
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Not even other DCAU cartoons get the same amount of respect which BTAS seems to demand. And I can understand it too. Batman was a show which got very personal with its characters, even the ones who showed up in an episode and then disappeared forever. It was very character-driven. Something like Justice League - despite being the same creative team, same voice actors - might be seen as more for the kids because of its more rote 'world in peril' cycle every episode. The super-threats are so outlandish that an adult won't see as much as a stake, and be invested in the outcome. A priest trying to help his mobster brother choose a better path in life is a lot more compelling.

Of the other shows you listed (which I've seen) I think Wolverine and the X-Men comes closest to BTAS since that smaller sense of scale is there. I think the X-Men as a team go to action only a few times in the entire series; often its one-on-one conflicts (usually focusing on Logan).
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:18 PM   #6
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The truth is nobody really cares about cartoons unless they're adult sit-coms like Simpsons or Family Guy, etc.

The only cartoons that really made an impact are either ones that were a cultural fad like the original Ninja Turtles cartoon, or a show that made a huge impact like B:TAS, etc. But even if there are other better or just as good superhero cartoons...it's like nobody cares.

The only reason these cartoons are remembered is because all the kids who grew up with them are now adults and we talk about them. But otherwise in the mind of the general public they're pretty much forgotten.

Hell there's still people to this day who have no idea Mark Hammil voices the Joker for 30 years, simply because they only know him as Luke Skywalker.
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Old 11-08-2017, 10:28 PM   #7
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You have all these normies who only watch the Marvel movies and consider themselves nerds while we the real nerds have enjoyed much better interpretations and stories from these characters because we're cool with watching cartoons.

Who cares if they don't get recognition as long as we get to enjoy these superior interpretations.
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Old 11-08-2017, 11:02 PM   #8
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Well.... most adults don't have time to watch cartoons, or even care about them. Yeah, I watched Batman the Animated Series and 90's X-Men and whatnot, but I was a kid back then. Batman was on after school and X-Men was on Saturday mornings.

Honestly if these shows aired today, I'd miss them because I'd be at work or out with friends. Yes, I do watch Family Guy and anime on Adult Swim... but they're at night, when I'm actually home. If Family Guy was not adult comedy and aired earlier in the day I'd miss it because, again, I'm at work.

Movies are different. Anyone can find time on a day off to gather some friends to watch a movie. It's an event. A night on the town. You don't have to sit and watch Thor Ragnarok the 3 season series in the middle of the day every day at a time that you're supposed to be at work.
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Old 11-08-2017, 11:13 PM   #9
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I think it's the same with anime really. It still has that "nerdy" stigma in the U.S., it's not like everyone is going to say, "Let's go watch some anime!" and not have normal everyday people cringe. I know this is kinda sad but that's how it is.

People would rather watch Fast and the Furious then watch anything animated. Dudebro stuff.
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Old 11-09-2017, 03:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdp View Post
You have all these normies who only watch the Marvel movies and consider themselves nerds while we the real nerds have enjoyed much better interpretations and stories from these characters because we're cool with watching cartoons.

Who cares if they don't get recognition as long as we get to enjoy these superior interpretations.
^ beautifully stated! thank you.
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Old 11-09-2017, 05:28 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
The truth is nobody really cares about cartoons unless they're adult sit-coms like Simpsons or Family Guy, etc.

The only cartoons that really made an impact are either ones that were a cultural fad like the original Ninja Turtles cartoon, or a show that made a huge impact like B:TAS, etc. But even if there are other better or just as good superhero cartoons...it's like nobody cares.

The only reason these cartoons are remembered is because all the kids who grew up with them are now adults and we talk about them. But otherwise in the mind of the general public they're pretty much forgotten.

Hell there's still people to this day who have no idea Mark Hammil voices the Joker for 30 years, simply because they only know him as Luke Skywalker.
???

Gravity Falls/ Adventure Time/ Star Vs the Forces of evil/ Steven Universe??

All big time shows that are geared towards kids gained a wide variety of followings.

Samurai Jack? Adult Swim version?

I myself am a fan of Milo Murphey's Law but it doesn't have as big as fan base as the others sadly

Your comments are flawed.

No, No Animated series has got proper treatment or respect besides Batman series or films.
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Old 11-09-2017, 06:22 PM   #12
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Cubed is not wrong, adults don't watch cartoons like those, don't confuse nerdy online fandoms with real life. Cartoons have gained a lot of acceptance over the last two decades but it's nowhere near mainstream. You can't compare small market niches like that.
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Old 11-09-2017, 07:19 PM   #13
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For example, if you were to go to your co-workers in real life and tell them you still watch cartoons outside of stuff like Simpsons/Family Guy, etc. they'd probably laugh or say they don't watch or have time for cartoons anymore.

Maybe you'll find some DC/Marvel fans but they'll probably just talk about the movies.
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Old 11-09-2017, 09:50 PM   #14
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How do you guys find time to even watch cartoons anymore?
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Old 11-09-2017, 10:04 PM   #15
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How do you guys find time to even watch cartoons anymore?
Kind of where I'm at with watching cartoons. I'm still working my way through season 4 of Nick's TMNT.
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Old 11-09-2017, 10:05 PM   #16
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How do you guys find time to even watch cartoons anymore?
It's cheaper and safer than clubbing

I mostly watch stuff I own on disc during rest times on weekends...I don't have any streaming services and I don't go to movie theaters that often. I live two blocks from a library, so there's always something cool to do without spending a lot of money.

I find myself reading or doing art more often though. It might take me a month or two to get through a season of something. I tried to watch the original Gundam anime a while back but ended up ordering the manga volumes instead. Sometimes TV series pacing feels too slow for me in comparison to prose or comics.

These days, I don't watch TV in general unless it fits in with something else I'm doing.
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Mirage [is]...a comic about life and how life and the people closest to you just absolutely suck sometimes. It's "adult" in a very real sense, in that it deals with heavy themes that resonate more with adults, not that it's full of blood and titties or whatever.
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[TMNT 1990 director Steve] Barron recognized the early Mirage issues as perfect storyboards. It's a shame no other filmmaker has.
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Old 11-09-2017, 11:52 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Coola Yagami View Post
How do you guys find time to even watch cartoons anymore?
I watch at least 4 episodes a night of whatever current cartoon I'm watching. I use 1.5 speed for movies though, but cartoons don't work as well sped up due to the animation.

I have to watch shows with hundreds of episodes, no wonder I get through them so fast. Thank god I'm not much an anime fan outside of like a few shows, I can't image piling up even more.
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Old 11-10-2017, 02:25 PM   #18
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How do you guys find time to even watch cartoons anymore?
I usually just watch 2-3 episodes of cartoons at a time every now and then, Sonic Boom being the most recent.
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Old 11-10-2017, 02:28 PM   #19
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I marathon through both old shows and new ones constantly. It's easy to make a schedule.
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Old 11-10-2017, 03:34 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Coola Yagami View Post
How do you guys find time to even watch cartoons anymore?
This is my problem I can barely squeeze watching one show a day most days, it's rare that I get to watch more than that. Nothing against TV or video games, I loved them as a kid but I usually prefer to do other things with my time, whether it's reading or just running. Juggling time between work/freelancing/university/significant other, it's difficult.

I don't watch shows that are currently airing, I have no patience to wait week after week and also through hiatuses.

I pick a show that's finished usually and I watch through it, if I have nothing to do I can binge it but I have no problem with watching one episode a day even if it takes me two or four months to finish "one" show, since it's over there is no rush to finish it.

I don't really re-watch shows, I usually try to find something I haven't watched, for example if I"m nostalgic for a 90s cartoon I'd rather search wikipedia for a show I have never watched like say Bonkers than see Gargoyles again even if Gargoyles is a better show and even as a kid I only watched an episode or two of Bonkers since it didn't appeal to me.

When it comes to re-watching I need to let a lot of time pass so the show feels "new" again to me, if it's too recent like I only watched it 3 years ago even if it's a long time it's still "recent" in my memory. I love the DCAU but I haven't watched any of it since the last JLU dvd set came out nearly 10 years ago. I'd rather watch other DC shows I've never checked out like say Beware the Batman. Since it's been around 10 years since I last watched the DCAU I'm guessing when I do I will be delighted again.

When I'm finished with a show I usually save it as "I would like to watch this with my future son/daughter" or "I need to watch this one more time before I die", or if I really love it I think "I need to watch this at least 3 times more before I die"
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