Alec Baldwin shoots and kills his own cinematographer

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Such a tragedy. How do you even live with that etched in your brain. Hope he gets the great counseling that he's probably going to need for the rest of his days.

Not everyone is wired that way. If he was handed a gun by a propmaster that swore up and down it was fine that's 100% on him and not, say, Baldwin. But it's still very sh**ty.

In the unlikely event it turns out that Baldwin was like waving away people and was like, "No no, I'm sure this gun is fine, you don't need to check it" then that's another story.

Have to agree, with as far as the technology has come and CGI being able to be totally indistinguishable from the real thing in many cases, why are something as simple as prop guns still using blanks, or firing at all for that matter?

Because you get the noise to react to, real recoil, you get flash, you get real surprise from everyone in front of the camera, you get a smoking casing popping out and hitting the floor and it immerses everyone into what you're shooting. Also it's pretty affordable. And has been going on for 100 years.

Maybe now the industry will decide it needs to move past that

Hopefully not.

If they want the acting and motion authentic, than have an actor train with an expert, get a feel for how a particular real gun fires, than let them do what they do best on set with a fake version that can't hurt anyone.

A gun with blanks is a version that can't hurt anyone (but it does make scary noises that may equal violence or harm to people who have a girlfriend who has a boyfriend or believe that voter ID is racist). Something else happened here. I'm sure there will be a very public investigation to follow.

[Papenbrook]

I would assume that VFX work is likely ( already ) expensive, and that it would likely be much cheaper to just use a prop gun with blanks. Plus, occurrences such as this are quite a rarity.

Thus, companies don't usually bother with applying/transferring to a different filming technique/method.

I myself feel hesitant to just place all weaponry filming/handling to VFX crews.

VFX artists/designers are already overworked and underpaid as is. Multiple VFX studios are pushed to their absolute limits by film studios. As a result, the VFX companies either shut down and/or lay off hordes of people. Hell, some VFX workers just quit/retire altogether.

The film/television industry desperately needs some sort of reset.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Papenbrook

I would assume that VFX work is likely ( already ) expensive, and that it would likely be much cheaper to just use a prop gun with blanks.

That's hardly the point or remotely the issue. If you're filming a sequence where someone shoots somebody else... if you CAN, you will want to be using blanks. It will look better, it'll sound real, and you'll get genuine performances.

[IndigoErth]

Okay, but shouldn't the same sort of reasons and decision making apply to, say, a Jaws remake?

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Okay, but shouldn't the same sort of reasons and decision making apply to, say, a Jaws remake?

No. No, it shouldn't.

[Leo656]

Yeah, and in my business the standard used to be, "Never put your hand up on a chairshot to the head. Just let 'em crack you full-speed, unprotected." Because it "looked better", "made a better noise", and as a bonus, actually hurt really bad, thus "enhancing the realism."

Except, y'know... it's all fake, and everybody knows it's all fake.

And then a guy got so much brain damage from unprotected shots to the head, he tied his wife up with duct tape and strangled her to death with an extension cord, then strangled his son to death before hanging himself in his basement.

Now everybody just puts their hands up. Or else they just don't swing for the head.

Once people are legitimately getting hurt or killed in the name of "enhancing the realism" of something every single person knows is patently fake, it is no longer important for anything to look THAT "real". The Risk/Reward balance simply isn't favorable.

[Andrew NDB]

2 deaths in 2 non-indie movies out of tens of thousands of movies over 100 years of cinema that've featured guns with blanks is a pretty good running average. And taking chairshots to the face vs. getting shot with air 99.9999999999999999999% of the time is hardly the same thing. You'd have a better chance at dying from COVID if you're a healthy, fit 9 year-old with no pre-existing conditions than accidentally dying from a blank or killing someone with one. Or winning the lottery, for that matter.

The only person or thing to get mad at is the checks and balances system that put a gun with either a defective internal mechanism, some kind of debris in the nozzle or a defective blank (honestly I've never heard of such a thing) into Alec's hands. But again, I'm positive we'll learn a bunch more in the coming days.

[IndigoErth]

But it's just not believable or genuine enough if modern film shark attacks aren't authentic.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

But it's just not believable or genuine enough if modern film shark attacks aren't authentic.

That's stupid.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

But it's just not believable or genuine enough if modern film shark attacks aren't authentic.

How do you suggest they handle future Jurassic movies?

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

Everything I could say about this has already been said, probably better than I could say it to boot, but I have just one question: I get the accidental discharge scenario, which is tragic enough, but why did he fire the gun at two different people?

There is already debate about how the gun had a live round in it - I guess the crew had spent weeks on social media explaining that they were abused by the cast and director, etc. So of course there are already theories about that....

But with that said, my understanding is that he fired one time and the round went through the cinematographer, exited her and into the Director.

[Wildcat]

Entire scenes are made with cgi now and actors pretend to interact with things that are not there. Using cgi gunshots and sound effects does not lessen the authenticity or the actors believability.

We have animatronics and fantasy weapons. I’m sure fake realistic guns that don’t shoot anything can be made.

I know these accidents are rare but the point is taking out the possibility because mistakes happen.

[Leo656]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/sheriff-b...100904090.html

SANTA FE, N.M. (AP) — Alec Baldwin was handed a loaded weapon by an assistant director who indicated it was safe to use in the moments before the actor fatally shot a cinematographer, court records released Friday show.

The assistant director did not know the prop gun was loaded with live rounds, according to a search warrant filed in a Santa Fe court.

Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was shot in the chest on the set of a Western starring Baldwin. Director Joel Souza was wounded. The records said he was standing behind her.

Boy. Sure seems like these "accidents" happen more often than they should, if the last few lines of the article are to be believed.

Lee, son of martial arts star Bruce Lee, died in 1993 after being hit by a .44-caliber slug while filming a death scene for the movie “The Crow.” The gun was supposed to have fired a blank, but an autopsy turned up a bullet lodged near his spine.

In 1984, actor Jon-Erik Hexum died after shooting himself in the head with a prop gun blank while pretending to play Russian roulette with a .44 Magnum on the set of the television series “Cover Up.”

Such shootings have also happened during historical reenactments. In 2015, an actor staging a historical gunfight in Tombstone, Arizona, was shot and wounded with a live round during a show that was supposed to use blanks.

In Hill City, South Dakota, a tourist town that recreates an Old West experience, three spectators were wounded in 2011 when a re-enactor fired real bullets instead of blanks.

Yeah, nah, this is stupid. Just do something else. Once bitten, twice (gun)shy. No real reason things like this need to happen. It's entertainment.

Originally Posted by Wildcat

I know these accidents are rare but the point is taking out the possibility because mistakes happen.

Once is an accident. Twice is carelessness. After that it's simply having no value for human life if it interferes with the "realism" of a completely make-believe scenario.

It's not defensible. People can try and defend it if they want, that's their prerogative. But it's simply not defensible, objectively. It'd be such an easy thing to change so that nobody ever has to die that specific way ever again.

Or, we can get super hung up on just how "real" it was when the actor onscreen went "EEEEK!", or whatever. Because that's ultimately the more important thing, I guess.

I think if you took a poll, like globally, I think MOST people would be fine if gunshot scenes were a few percentage points less "realistic" so long as nobody ever got shot in the f*cking head again. Pretty sure most people would make that trade gladly. I don't KNOW that, but that's my feeling.

Lots of times, when people die, other people say "There's nothing anyone could've done." Most times, that's true.

In cases where that's NOT true, and something COULD have been done, there's a responsibility to ensure that such "mistakes" never happen again. If it's a preventable incident, then you work to prevent a repeat of the incident. Very simple.

[Leo656]

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...144429369.html

Brandon Lee's family responds to fatal prop gun shooting on Alec Baldwin film set: 'No one should ever be killed by a gun on a film set'

When news broke that a fatal shooting involving a prop gun occurred on the Santa Fe, New Mexico set of the Alec Baldwin film, Rust, many drew a connection to a similar tragedy that claimed the life of Brandon Lee during the production of the 1994 film, The Crow. Now, Shannon Lee — Brandon's sister — has issued a statement through her sibling's official Twitter account.

"Our hearts go out the family of Halyna Hutchins and to Joel Souza and all involved in the incident of on Rust," she writes, referencing the film's cinematographer and director respectively. "No one should ever be killed by a gun on a film set. Period."

---

Lee's tragic on-set death has remained a Hollywood cautionary tale about gun safety for almost three decades. And Shannon Lee's statement has allowed fans to mourn his loss — along with the loss of Halyna Hutchins — all over again.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/alec-bald...193409810.html

'Rust' crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting

---------
Safety protocols standard in the industry, including gun inspections, were not strictly followed on the "Rust" set near Santa Fe, the sources said. They said at least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to a production manager about gun safety on the set.

Three crew members who were present at the Bonanza Creek Ranch set on Saturday said they were particularly concerned about two accidental prop gun discharges.

Baldwin's stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was "cold" — lingo for a weapon that doesn't have any ammunition, including blanks — two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times.

"There should have been an investigation into what happened," the crew member said. "There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn't happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush."

A colleague was so alarmed by the prop gun misfires that he sent a text message to the unit production manager. "We've now had 3 accidental discharges. This is super unsafe," according to a copy of the message reviewed by The Times.

Sloppy Shop. It's good no charges are being filed against Baldwin, but all of this suggests that at some point someone is going to be held liable. Probably not criminally, but I fully expect a civil suit against the studio and a big, big payout.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. "Oops".

[IndigoErth]

So there had already been other very recent issues prior to this incident?? If there was ever reason to strike and walk off the set, that might have been it.

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

How do you suggest they handle future Jurassic movies?

Obviusly CGI can't really make it real enough, so no more films until they can really bring them back. That way they can also use them to make a real park afterwards and really bring the films to life in all their repeating tragic glory.

[Leo656]

Yeah, apparently the set's just been one gun-related disaster after another all week long and multiple people working on the movie made noise about it. The more I read about it the more I have to shake my head. This was preventable, but sadly, inevitable under the circumstances.

Sloppy Shop.

I feel bad about my snarky comments about "Oh, those poor movie people" the other day. To be clear, I wasn't snarking them about Things Like This. Things like this are exactly why there should be advocates and oversight.

[Wildcat]

There should not even be real bullets on a set.

I thought guns don’t flash in real life. That it’s something movies started and it kept on. I thought the Mythbusters did a segment showing how it’s done but I guess I’m remembering wrong. A flash does happen.

I remember they showed something about it. Maybe it was a certain type.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Wildcat

There should not even be real bullets on a set.

I'd actually love to know how/why that happens.

I assume it's to test to make sure that the guns are firing properly. But... I don't know, can't they do that somewhere else and then just bring the empty guns to the set once ensured that they're empty?

Allegedly the woman responsible for overseeing the gun safety was a real screw-up in general. Only 25, seems more like she got her job because her Mommy worked in the business than anything. Probably not qualified or experienced enough to even be put in charge of such things.

I confess, part of me sincerely does want to make a joke about "Who even put a woman in charge of the guns, anyway? They're guns, not cupcakes." However, this isn't really a joking matter.

[ZariusTwo]

ABC's 'The Rookie', effective immediately, won't be using real guns on their show


https://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...ldwin-accident

[Wildcat]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I'd actually love to know how/why that happens.

I assume it's to test to make sure that the guns are firing properly. But... I don't know, can't they do that somewhere else and then just bring the empty guns to the set once ensured that they're empty?

Allegedly the woman responsible for overseeing the gun safety was a real screw-up in general. Only 25, seems more like she got her job because her Mommy worked in the business than anything. Probably not qualified or experienced enough to even be put in charge of such things.

I confess, part of me sincerely does want to make a joke about "Who even put a woman in charge of the guns, anyway? They're guns, not cupcakes." However, this isn't really a joking matter.

Ya testing can be done somewhere else but you should not even need to test with real bullets.

I don’t know if 25 is too young. Seems like it was all just poorly handled. Lack of common sense.

The Rookie changing them to fake guns is good. I don’t watch it but I’m sure you cannot tell the difference.