Do you think IDW TMNT will reach issue 200?

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by hypered1

So now you're calling Andrew a liar?

He's incorrect, possibly mistaken rather than lying, but incorrect regardless. Just because I may agree with him on a lot things, have similar tastes or because people here may generally like him does not mean he can't be factually wrong. Maybe Sophie wrote some Mirage book at some point but I can only find artist credit. If someone can find a Mirage TMNT book with writing credit to Sophie, I will apologise but I will not just assume it exists because someone tells me it does.

Originally Posted by hypered1

If you want to just stick with the IDW run then Sophie also wrote the 'Toad Baron's Ball' 2-parter and the 'Karai's Path' arc both the in Universe and they're more like #125 than the rest of the post-#100 issues.

Before I detail what I have to say about the Toad Baron story and Karai's path, if your intention is to use them as examples of how 125 is consistent with Sophie's style, as in a style she has usedall alone, those are actually bad examples. If you go ahead an read who is credited with the writing for those stories, the Toad Baron story says "Sophie Campbell and Bobby Curnow" and Karai's path says "By Erik Burham with Sophie Campbell". They are both examples of Sophie having a writing partner.

To say "These stories that Sophie wrote with someone else are good, therefore the good issue she allegedly wrote alone can't have had someone else helping out" is dumb. If her best writing credits are co-credits and all the other issues she wrote alone without significant help were bad, it doesn't exactly give me less reason to think someone else was involved with the writing process.

To clarify, I never claimed 125 was absolutely written by someone else in it's entirety, or even that I know anything for certain. All I have ever claimed about issue 125 is that I suspect someone else was at least partially involved with the writing process. Sophie Campbell could technically be the sole writer of 125 as is officially claimed, it's just that I doubt that is the case.

Now, I will agree that the Toad Baron two-parter and Karai's Path are better comics than 101-124 are. But like we have already established, we know they aren't solo written by Campbell so using their quality as a case for why 125 can't have a secret co-writer doesn't work. However, even assuming Sophie was the driving force on these comics rather than Curnow or Burnham and that they had minimal involvement (which I doubt), they aren't actually more similar to 125 than they are 101-124. The pacing and dialogue are much better in those comics than 101-124, this is true but like 101-124 there is a heavy emphasis on a main plot with little to no effort put into a sub-plot and there are long montages where the art takes focus with not much emphasis on progressing the plot at all. With 125 you pretty much get the opposite, every panel is dedicated to the plot and there are two (arguably three) sub-plots involved.

Going back to Andrew, a thing I mostly don't agree with him on quite frequently is that seems to consider "maturity level" and "level of grit" to be indicative of quality, and in this case also seems to think this is what style boils down to. I think you might be making a similar mistake here and need to tell you right now to try and think about this on a less surface oriented level (if I'm mistaken about where you are coming from, please correct me). Yes, 125 along with Karai's Path and the Toad Baron two-parter are "grittier and more mature" than what most of 101-124 were but honestly, not by much. More importantly, structurally 125 is still major departure from 101-124 and I need to be given a reason to think it's not in order to be convinced Sophie had to be the sole writer.

[frank_one]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Except Sophie Campbell hasn't written for Mirage. She did some covers and two front pieces but no writing.

As far as I know, you are right. The only collaboration I can remember between Mirage and Sophie is her doing covers for the "Raphael - Bad moon rising" miniseries. No writing at all.

[CyberCubed]

Why do these threads always turn out like this.

[ChosenOne]

Campbell has absolutely zero understanding or grasp of conflict, and it very much shows in the (ahem) quality of her writing. The fact that whoever wrote/co-wrote/ghost wrote/co-ghost wrote #125 did more with Sheena and her conflict as a character in just a couple of pages than Campbell did in twenty issues on her own is all the proof the pudding needs. Unwillingness to admit she is fallible out of sheer ideological blindness is another matter entirely.

[MikeandRaph87]

There is a lot to read in this thread to catch up. I do think that the solution is simple. Replace the writer.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

There is a lot to read in this thread to catch up. I do think that the solution is simple. Replace the writer.

Done. You have two wishes left.

[Allio]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

If things stay the same as in 101-124, then no.

If future issues follow 125's lead, then yes. Definitely.

This poll needs a "Maybe" option.

Not this poll in particular, but “maybe” is a cowards way out in nerd discussion.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Allio

Not this poll in particular, but “maybe” is a cowards way out in nerd discussion.

The reason I said that is because I haven't been able to bring myself to pick either option yet. The results are closer than I expected too. Might wait until #126 is out to make sure #125 wasn't a fluke and the comic really is back to its old form. If that makes me a coward, so be it.

[Leo656]

So anyone who's ever clicked a User's name to see what they're up to is "a stalker". What else is even the point of having such a feature on a forum in the first place? If I want to see why a person who "quit" the forum is suddenly on it every day for hours, or see if someone else had seen the joke I made in a thread yet, or what a Banned user might be doing back here logging in despite being banned... That's my own business and I'll satisfy my personal curiosity any way I jolly well please to.

There's an "invisible" function if people don't want their name to show up as Active. I use it. It's not hard to figure out. Those who don't bother must not care if someone sees their activity. And that's their prerogative as well.

"Cyber-stalking." You f*cking loser. Go clean your room, your girlfriend's boyfriend is coming over to f*ck her later and he doesn't like dirty sheets. I hear they're gonna let you watch this time. Good for you, kid.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Leo656

"Cyber-stalking." You f*cking loser. Go clean your room, your girlfriend's boyfriend is coming over to f*ck her later and he doesn't like dirty sheets. I hear they're gonna let you watch this time. Good for you, kid.

[Ninja Toitles]

The book has toitle legs! It creeps along but it'll hit it's mark to 200!
IDSW Toitles isn't the best it's ever been, but we will keep buying it and reading it!

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

Done. You have two wishes left.

We see glimpses of The Armageddon Game but no indication in the title itself. Having read through #125 now, it still doesn't do it for me and this is with the inclusion of the characters that I asked for, The Punk Frogs, Groundchuck, and Dirtbag. When will Campbell be gone off the book? The only thing I have is The Armageddon Game and it's all Tom.

[Leo656]

"Hope" is the most irrational of all human emotions.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Leo656

"Hope" is the most irrational of all human emotions.

Not while the blue light shines! I won't let you get into my head Sinestro!

[Leo656]

I enjoy fictional stories.

Because in fiction, God is real, good people exist, bad people are punished, and sometimes there are happy endings.

In short, fiction is wonderful because it is the polar opposite of Real Life.

[frank_one]

Originally Posted by Leo656

"Hope" is the most irrational of all human emotions.

It is also the most human emotion and what pushes our daily actions. Hope is a functional illusion.

[Leo656]

Yes but it fundamentally depends on a rejection of reality. "Hope" and "Reality" simply cannot occupy the same space at the same time. Furthermore, reality exists whether or not a person chooses to believe in it, whereas "hope" relies entirely on belief in order to be "real". Kind of like God, or Santa Claus. And regardless, no amount of "belief" can actually make those things exist, therefore they remain delusions/illusions. Just like "hoping" you win the lottery will never make it happen, just for one example.

We generally call grown adults who openly believe in either of those fictional characters delusional and/or mentally ill, and rightly so. So my question is, if like God or Santa the concept of "hope" is only real if a person believes in it, and even in that case calling them "real" is really stretching the definition of the term, why doesn't THAT also designate someone a crazy person?

I've never really managed to understand that. I, personally, laugh just as hard at someone whenever they tell me "I believe in Hope" as I do when someone says "I believe in God."

Whatever gets someone through the day, I guess. But I confess that I don't understand it. I probably never will.

[ChosenOne]

After reading #126 and realizing that a) #125 wasn't a fluke and b) Campbell's writing has finally, thankfully, praise Jesus-ly gone the way of the dodo, I finally made up my mind and voted "Yes".

[psychturtle]

That was a lot to read through. I don’t post as much anymore (life stuff), but I understand a lot of what people are saying. I won’t write a thesis but have to vent a little:

After issue 105 or so, I became VERY bored with tmnt. I often wondered what the overall arc was. Then I started believing that the goal wasn’t story building, it was essentially to watch the turtles “play house” and just date. I really became annoyed with it and wanted to just donate all the comics after #100. But just like gambling, I wanted to keep giving it one last chance. I found myself even skimming the dialogue, hoping for an enticing panel. Rat king is still captivating but just seeing the ridiculous banter and unnecessary drama amongst characters was a HUGE problem for me.

I wanted Sophie to do well, but I couldn’t help but be honest with myself about it. So I’ve deduced that either a) someone intervened for the latest two issues, or b) Sophie did a really, really poor job organizing her run. I hope it gets better but I really hope they reboot soon. Prolonging it is not helping.

[IMJ]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Why do these threads always turn out like this.

Because of factioning that happens along a spectrum of society. It's the kind of factions you get with emotionally-uncertain-nerds in High School, or in low-level office environments where people align to the office-employee-factions they think will make them standout. Those factions usually involve the same opportunistic personal attacks you'll get here in response to ideology posts. Basically people at that level rally behind who they feel is a "nice guy" or rally against people who's insight challenges them because any challenge is an extension of their social or life failure.

People who fit this model also rarely rally behind truth when it doesn't fit their personal porcelain-narrative and even less-so if someone delivering the truth has challenged them to see the truth. Much of the vocal population of this forum fits that spectrum. Societal factions at the grassroots level. The same people would call this post a "wall of text" in disregard of it's content.

Originally Posted by psychturtle

That was a lot to read through. I don’t post as much anymore (life stuff), but I understand a lot of what people are saying. I won’t write a thesis but have to vent a little:

After issue 105 or so, I became VERY bored with tmnt.

You hung on longer than I did, so God bless ya for that one. I dropped at 50 out of apathy. Then people were talking about what was going on in the book across 50 & 100 and long term I'm glad I just walked away from it back then.

Originally Posted by psychturtle

But just like gambling, I wanted to keep giving it one last chance. I found myself even skimming the dialogue, hoping for an enticing panel.

You sound like a real fan. I did this with a decade of bad Iron Man stories. It's completely irrational, but I think a big part of fandom sometimes is just hanging in there on some irrational faith and desire that it's going to go back to what you loved.

Originally Posted by psychturtle

I hope it gets better but I really hope they reboot soon. Prolonging it is not helping.

IDW's TMNT is one of the few long-form published books with contiguous numbering left on the shelves. I don't think they should reboot it with a new launch. I respect the book's staying power, so they should just change creative teams, give it a new logo and put a blurb on the cover that says "New Direction!" but stick with the numbering as a show of legacy for the book.

Rebooting and relaunches went a LONG way to killing the comic book industry.