The 2007 movie is a mess, a good one.

[D-ray]

The 2007 movie is really good in my opinion, but I think that is the most confused movie of all.
There are alot of characterstics from the 2003 serie and some of the 1987 one. Some parts of the storyline are from a show, and some other not.

I've recently heard (4 months ago) that the 2007 movie, not only was supposed to be a trilogy, but it was a continuation of the 1987 show's storyline.
But it doesn't make any sense to me...

Some examples of weird stuff:

- 1987 Shredder in the beginning
- The turtles say that the Shredder DIED, even if in both 1987 and 2003 Shredder is not said to be 100% dead
- 2003 Casey and April
- There is Karai mixed between the classic movies and the 2003 series
- Foot ninjas are normal people instead of androids
- Who the hell is Max Winters? (not gonna lie, I liked him, but his presence makes everything even more confusing)
- 1987 Shredder's helmet among Splinter's "trophies"
- Karai doesn't seem to hate the turtles, even if in the 2003 series she spent her last episodes trying to kill the turltes

And probably even more!
What you guys think? There could be an explanation or the explanation could have been given in the later scrapped sequels?

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by D-ray

The 2007 movie is really good in my opinion, but I think that is the most confused movie of all.
There are alot of characterstics from the 2003 serie and some of the 1987 one. Some parts of the storyline are from a show, and some other not.

I've recently heard (4 months ago) that the 2007 movie, not only was supposed to be a trilogy, but it was a continuation of the 1987 show's storyline.
But it doesn't make any sense to me...

Some examples of weird stuff:

- 1987 Shredder in the beginning
- The turtles say that the Shredder DIED, even if in both 1987 and 2003 Shredder is not said to be 100% dead
- 2003 Casey and April
- There is Karai mixed between the classic movies and the 2003 series
- Foot ninjas are normal people instead of androids
- Who the hell is Max Winters? (not gonna lie, I liked him, but his presence makes everything even more confusing)
- 1987 Shredder's helmet among Splinter's "trophies"
- Karai doesn't seem to hate the turtles, even if in the 2003 series she spent her last episodes trying to kill the turltes

And probably even more!
What you guys think? There could be an explanation or the explanation could have been given in the later scrapped sequels?

It’s never specified what it was based around since we see elements of the 2k3 version/ the 90’s movie trilogy/ and the mirage comic. I’ve mostly heard this story takes place after the original film trillogy. Largely I do see this as an attempt towards a new animated incarnation of the turtles.


The main problem was that it didn’t really explain crucial plot elements. Such as why Leo was on that training mission or how Raph got his night watcher armor. There were some tie in comics explaining that, but the film is expecting the viewers to have read those comics.

Karai does have some hostility towards the turtles in the film because when the Turtles jump in to help take down that monster Karai notices Leo and angrily says ‘you’. While he has no idea about who she is or what he’s done to infuriate her. She later decides the monsters were the bigger problem and helps them, though her last line in the film did imply that the Shredder would return.

There were other movies planned but they were never used since this film wasn’t received as well as hoped and of course imagi studios hitting the tank.


The blue prints for the sequel films center around Mikey and Donnie. It’s a shame as these plots did actually sound intriguing, perhaps someone may get the rights to the blueprints for these films someday.

The first sequel was going to have Mikey feeling like the odd turtle out among his brothers. So he makes the decision to run away from home. In this act he encounters Karai and when she hears about his plight she suggests that he might be more welcome in the Foot Clan. We see Mikey exchanging his orange mask for a black one. In the mean time the turtles travel to Japan and the events with Karai there lead to the Return of the Shredder. They also apparently were going to lose Splinter in this film.

The second sequel was going to have the Triceraton's and the arrival of the technodrome from dimension x. And Donatello was the catalyst for those events taking place.

[D-ray]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

It’s never specified what it was based around since we see elements of the 2k3 version/ the 90’s movie trilogy/ and the mirage comic. I’ve mostly heard this story takes place after the original film trillogy. Largely I do see this as an attempt towards a new animated incarnation of the turtles.

There were other movies planned but they were never used since this film wasn’t received as well as hoped and of course imagi studios hitting the tank.


The blue prints for the sequel films center around Mikey and Donnie. It’s a shame as these plots did actually sound intriguing, perhaps someone may get the rights to the blueprints for these films someday.

The first sequel was going to have Mikey feeling like the odd turtle out among his brothers. So he makes the decision to run away from home. In this act he encounters Karai and when she hears about his plight she suggests that he might be more welcome in the Foot Clan. We see Mikey exchanging his orange mask for a black one. In the mean time the turtles travel to Japan and the events with Karai there lead to the Return of the Shredder. They also apparently were going to lose Splinter in this film.

The second sequel was going to have the Triceraton's and the arrival of the technodrome from dimension x. And Donatello was the catalyst for those events taking place.

The one with the Triceratons looked incredibly cool tho...
The animation was nice and the design was greater.
I think it didn't reached the top just because it wasn't really clear it's storyline.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

It’s never specified what it was based around since we see elements of the 2k3 version/ the 90’s movie trilogy/ and the mirage comic.

It had been specified, over and over again by the writer/director. And press releases of the time. It's a movie continuation, nothing else.

There were some tie in comics explaining that, but the film is expecting the viewers to have read those comics.

Nonsense. The comics weren't even commissioned until long after the script was written and most work on the movie completed.

[AquaParade]

I see the film as taking place in it's own universe. Sorry, but it takes more than a scepter on a shelf to sell me on the idea that these interpretations of TMNT have anything in common.

[frank_one]

While we are on the subject, are those comics any good?

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by D-ray

The one with the Triceratons looked incredibly cool tho...
The animation was nice and the design was greater.
I think it didn't reached the top just because it wasn't really clear it's storyline.

That we could agree. They set up how the Turtles would face something that could break apart their brotherhood. That sounds ominous, but nothing is broken apart except for Leo getting captured and nearly sent to a parallel universe. The turtles do eventually go their separate ways, at least in the comic books. That's never been used in the tv series or films, as of yet though the concept has been hinted occasionally. If Tales of the TMNT could have continued another season, perhaps that even would have been a plotline since the Turtles were finding that without the Shredder or the Kraang they had no further purpose. So the next step possibly would have been maybe the Turtles going off on training journey's to hone their skills and discover themselves as individuals. That also could be an interesting plot if used in a movie as well.

But then it starts talking about the warlord Yaotl who opens a portal to a parallel universe and rendering him immortal and his siblings encased in stone. That is more of an "Excuse me, I think we wandered into another movie." Kinda thing.

The major plot with the 13 monsters had nothing to do with the turtles, they just happen to stumble upon it.

I mean it would have been interesting if they had just made Yaotl the villain from the start. Rather than a man who used a force he didn't completely understand, unleashed several horrors upon the Earth, saw his companions frozen in stone, became cursed with immortality, and had been spending the last several millennia living in regret.


Have Yaotl and his siblings all get immortality when they first use that planets alinement portal. This was meant to be a test of the portal, when they see what the portal can do for them they lay in wait for the next time the planets align in that fashion. One because if they miss that moment they would lose their immortality, and two so they can bring a whole army of monsters to display their might. They would hire Karai and the Foot Clan to help capture the original 13 monsters so Yaotl can get them under his control.

[D-ray]

Originally Posted by frank_one

While we are on the subject, are those comics any good?

If I could find them, I would be more than happy to read 'em.
Sadly, only now I've developed a great interest in "old" comics, just when I started to read the Usagi Yojimbo saga (Myamoto Usagi's personal stories outside TMNT).

So I need to remedy!

(p.s. Sei mica Italiano?)

[D-ray]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

I see the film as taking place in it's own universe. Sorry, but it takes more than a scepter on a shelf to sell me on the idea that these interpretations of TMNT have anything in common.

That's what I think now, but because they said it's a continuation of the 1987 movies, I found hard to understand some stuff.

[frank_one]

Originally Posted by D-ray

(p.s. Sei mica Italiano?)

Yes, I'm Italian. How did you find out?

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Nonsense. The comics weren't even commissioned until long after the script was written and most work on the movie completed.

I didn't say they weren't but the whole thing with Raph being the Nightwatcher and stuff does play out like it's expecting you to have read them. Or at least read them after the movie to fill in gaps.

Originally Posted by D-ray

If I could find them, I would be more than happy to read 'em.
Sadly, only now I've developed a great interest in "old" comics, just when I started to read the Usagi Yojimbo saga (Myamoto Usagi's personal stories outside TMNT).

So I need to remedy!

(p.s. Sei mica Italiano?)

I remember coming across a couple of them one time. The comics were all prequels stories to the movie and they were done in a Mirage style. And there were five of them.

The prequel centered on Raph is the first of the five is titled Disposable Heros.

Raph is talking to Casey about how he's been finding it hard to get along with his brothers as of late. Leo in particular because they are all focused on the major threats and overlooking the innocent people who are being terrorized in the city.

He then thinks back to 18 months ago when the four of them are tracking down some Triceratons. Raph notices this old man getting jumped by a bunch of street thugs. He informs his brothers of this and says they need to help him, but Leo says he's not important right now. The Triceraton's are the greater problem. They take out the Triceratons after they are done Raph sneaks away to help the man only to find the thugs gone. The man gets up and trudges away commenting that when he was younger he would have mopped the floor with those punks. Raph returns to his brothers and gets an earful from Leo about leaving without his permission and about how Splinter had taught them not to interfere with humans. While this is going on Mikey and Donnie are discussing Mike's plans for creating his party entertainment business.

Splinter appears to them and tells them that he had determined that Leo has earned the privilege to go on a year-long training pilgrimage. Both Donnie and Mikey are enthused about this, but Raph just storms out of the room. As he leaves Leo snipes that Splinter would have chosen him if he had trained harder and followed orders.

Raph goes out looking for trouble and sees some thugs harassing a prostitute. He beats up the thugs, the old man from earlier sees this and introduced himself as David Merryweather. Inviting Raph back to his home, he tells Raph that in his younger days he had been a vigilantly known as the Night Watcher. The two swap stories until Splinter calls and tells Raph to come home so he could see Leo off. Moments after Raph leaves David's house he hears gunshots coming from David's house. He returns to find David dying of his wounds. Before he passes on David makes Raph give two promises. One he would make sure the punks who shot him were put behind bars and two remove his Night Watcher gear from his house so no one can learn his identity.

In the present Raph takes out the thugs who murdered David and vows to put his armor to good use.


The second prequel centers on Mikey. It's titled “The Continuing Story of Cowabunga Carl”

Mikey and Donnie are perfecting their Mascot Idea. Mikey works as an entertainer, while Donnie works IT and stuff from the back of the van. The two of them go to a hockey rink to that Mikey can entertain a bunch of shelter kids that Casey had gathered together. Mikey sees a thug grab a purse from an old lady, despite Donnie repeatedly warning him that they weren't to interfere with human affairs Mikey chases after the thug. He gets tackled by security and taken to a back office while he radios Don to help him get out of this jam. Donnie calls up schematics of the hockey rink and tells Mikey how he can escape, while Casey pulls the fire alarm to distract security.
After reconvening with Donnie the two see the thug who stole the lady's purse. They take off after him, as they give chase they catch sight Nightwatcher. Mikey idolizes the vigilante, while Donnie doesn't trust him. The thug gets away but Donnie managed to plant a tracking device on the getaway vehicle.

Mikey manages to stop the criminal and get the lady's purse back. Splinter is less then happy with the two of them and says if he hears they have been interfering with humans again he would forbid them from continuing their business. Mikey protests by saying that with Leo away and Raph brooding who knows where he and Donnie are just trying to find their own path and do the right thing.


The third prequel centers on Donnie. It's titled Strangers in the Night

In his comic, he is using the money with his tech-job and also Mikey's 'Party Business" to fund his engineering. He's created a device tracks the brainwaves of all unknown species in Manhatten. That way if they have something such as the Triceraton's arrive they would be able to deal with it. Splinter is impressed, but suddenly a blip appears on the screen. They both know it isn't Mikey or Raph, so both Donnie and Splinter go to check it out. They find themselves confronted by one of the 13 monsters (the Giant Bat one). It attacks and then flys off with Donatello in its grasp.

Finding no recourse Splinter seeks out his sons for help. Mikey arrives and the two of them find Donnie trying to communicate to the bat creature. Mikey and Splinter chase it away, but when they ask Donnie what he learned about it. He says that it wanted to return home. Donnie checks his brainwave scan and finds there are 13 unknown creatures in the city, unfortunately, his device shorts out before he can amplify his scan range.


The next prequel centers on April it's titled "Bungle in the Jungle"

April and Casey are living together and it's not a happy relationship. Max Winters has hired April to help find items that catch his interest. This comic includes the scene in Costa Rica where April and Leo encounter one another in the movie. She is seeking out the "Fourth General" one of the statues of Yaotl's siblings. April's guide Sabastion leads her to the statue that Winters was wanting. But before she can receive payment, a group of cultists arrive and kill her assistants. Sabastion ties April to an altar as a sacrifice to the statue. the Costa Rican Army show up and kill Sabastion and take out the cultists. April is about to return to Winter's empty-handed when she overhears one of the soldiers say they intend to sell the statue to the highest bidder. April manages to get the statue of the Fourth General and takes off in Max Winter's private jet. She asks the pilot about what was going, the pilot tells her the soldiers are all ex-military who have been looking for that statue for a while. April begins to wonder what Winter's would want with the statue considering all the people who have died for it.


The final prequel centers on Leo. It's titled Five to one

Leo is continuing to exist as his ghost of the forest persona we see him having in the beginning of the movie.

Thinking back to when Splinter first sent him on this journey he remembers Splinter leaving him with a riddle of "The five-fold path shall lead you to the one." Leo makes it his goal to figure out the answer.

In Iceland, he learns the path of courage. A whaling ship is about to harpoon an endangered Fin Whale. Leo stops them and tells them to take another look at their pray. The whalers realize the Fin Whale has a baby and if they had killed it, its baby would have been orphaned and died.

The next path is compassion, he finds this when he is on a Portuguese ship bound for Liverpool. He discovers various African and Middle Eastern children who were going to be sold off as slaves. Leo then slaughters all the crew aboard the ship and calls the cops to rescue the kids.

The third path he finds in Mongolia, the path of Selflessness. He sees a group of hunters capturing a Yeti. Leo offers himself as their capture instead, the hunters respond by beating him up and capturing him as well since two cryptids would fetch a greater price. A tribe of Yeti arrives and chase off the hunters, they then thank Leo by tending his injuries and nurse him back to health.

the fourth path is humility. Leo travels to Japan and meets with the Ninja Tribunal and the Ancient One. He declares that he is the best of his brothers and he has the right to receive the same training as Hamato Yoshi. The Tribunal, however, turns from him stating that by forsaking his family he has learned nothing. He can't complete the five-fold path alone.

The final path is Community, in Costa Rica where Leo has that talk with April in the movie. He tells her he can't return home after everything he's seen. He's come to view humanity as awful and beyond hope. He refuses to live with them or under them any longer. April then suggests he look at what he learned from a different angle. He thinks about the riddle Splinter told him and realizes the five paths lead to the one which stood for family and he needed to go home to be with them.

[Zog The Magnificent]

I like this movie, but the way it's set up, it feels like it's the second movie in a trilogy. The problem is that it's also the ONLY movie in the trilogy.

[D-ray]

Originally Posted by frank_one

Yes, I'm Italian. How did you find out?

I've joined the Italian group of the forum, and you were inside of it, among some other three guys. Also, your location is "Southern Europe"!
Good to know that I'm not the only one here that keeps giving love to the turtles, in Italy.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

I didn't say they weren't but the whole thing with Raph being the Nightwatcher and stuff does play out like it's expecting you to have read them. Or at least read them after the movie to fill in gaps.

It's accidental, if that. Munroe certainly never wrote the movie with the idea in his head, "The Mirage comics tie-ins will fill in the blanks later, people can read those" because he had no idea they would even be a thing. They were a last minute thing by Mirage like, "Oh wait, maybe we should try to take this opportunity, kind of like we did with movie adaptations in the past." Which made sense.

[Peter Palmer]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

I didn't say they weren't but the whole thing with Raph being the Nightwatcher and stuff does play out like it's expecting you to have read them. Or at least read them after the movie to fill in gaps.

I suppose I just don't see any insurmountable gaps. What exactly did you want to know about Raph being the Nightwatcher? He's frustrated with the direction his family has taken and he vents this frustration by dressing up and going out at night to fight crime as a vigilante. He keeps this life a secret from his family who just see him as lazy for sleeping all day. This was all conveyed pretty succinctly in the movie.

You mentioned that you want to know how it got his suit. That might have an interesting story, but I certainly wouldn't consider it crucial to the plot. In my mind, it played out similar to how Daredevil got his armor in the Netflix show. In his vigilante travels, he comes across a metalworker who he either threatens or protects in exchange for the armor. Would I like to see that? Sure! But I'd like to see a lot more of this world, but I don't think any of it is crucial to the story we see in the film.

I've never read the tie-in comics. I enjoy this movie and don't view them as necessary for understanding the plot of the movie.

[Peter Palmer]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

I see the film as taking place in it's own universe. Sorry, but it takes more than a scepter on a shelf to sell me on the idea that these interpretations of TMNT have anything in common.

100% agree.

I'm fine with subtle nods to other incarnations, but these are more fan service than anything. As far as we know, the Time Scepter or Shredder's helmet could have completely different back stories than what we saw in the live action movies.

For example, the last time that the live action TMNT in the movies saw the Shredder, he was Super Shredder, which had a different helmet than the one we saw on the shelf in the 2007 movie.

I saw that trophy room as nods to the fans without necessarily tying these turtles to any specific continuity. As far as I'm concerned, they are their own incarnation.

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by Peter Palmer

100% agree.

I'm fine with subtle nods to other incarnations, but these are more fan service than anything. As far as we know, the Time Scepter or Shredder's helmet could have completely different back stories than what we saw in the live action movies.

For example, the last time that the live action TMNT in the movies saw the Shredder, he was Super Shredder, which had a different helmet than the one we saw on the shelf in the 2007 movie.

I saw that trophy room as nods to the fans without necessarily tying these turtles to any specific continuity. As far as I'm concerned, they are their own incarnation.

Agreed. Despite the weird stuff (which I never paid much attention to lol), it’s still my second favourite TMNT movie, behind 1990.

[sgtfbomb]

I enjoyed it when it was in theaters, but not quite as much when I revisited a few years back. I remember wishing it had a better A-plot.

It also had a great cast, including Sarah Michelle Gellar as April, Chris Evans as Casey, and Ziyi Zhang as Karai, and that would have been great to see realized in a live action medium. That's the kind of talent they should went for when casting the PD films.

[Leo656]

I liked it fine but it's the least memorable, to me, of the TMNT movies I've seen. It also doesn't call to me to watch it again very strongly, for whatever reason. Saw it opening night and it didn't get the overwhelming response from the audience that I'd expected, that kinda told me what was going to come of it.

I think the characters were mostly portrayed pretty well but that plot was all over the place. I definitely think that they kinda recycled the script from some generic CGI kids movie about monsters that they had sitting in a drawer and added the TMNT elements after the fact once they got the license or whatever. I highly doubt that it was written from the ground up to be a TMNT movie. I guess it's possible but it feels like a retrofit. We'll probably never know but that kinda thing happens ALL the time, and who gets the official writing credit on a movie is generally based one some rather shady stuff. But if it was written from scratch to be a TMNT movie, I'd be shocked.

It's alright, but I don't think it's the movie the franchise needed at that moment. Something a little more iconic would've played better and possibly gotten a sequel. I understand why they wanted to "try something new" and all that, but too many movies save "the good stuff" for a sequel that never comes and this was one of them. Teasing Shredder at the end makes the whole thing feel even dumber since they never got to make that movie. "Safe and predictable" or no, they should've come out of the gate swinging with Shredder and then they could have done this same plot, or ANY plot, really, for the sequel. They banked on everyone showing up just for the novelty of seeing TMNT in movie theaters for the first time in 15 years or whatever and that wasn't enough of a draw for most people once they heard that it wasn't "really" a TMNT movie in any significant sense.

I apparently like it more than a lot of people but it's very, very flawed.

[ABrown]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

I see the film as taking place in it's own universe. Sorry, but it takes more than a scepter on a shelf to sell me on the idea that these interpretations of TMNT have anything in common.

I agree. And this doesn't really prove anything, but in Turtles Forever the 2007 turtles are shown to be in an alternate universe from the original movies. But regardless, when I watch the 2007 film, I don't get the sense that I'm watching a continuation of those movies.

Originally Posted by D-ray

That's what I think now, but because they said it's a continuation of the 1987 movies, I found hard to understand some stuff.

1987 movies? What in the helicopter are you talking about?

Originally Posted by frank_one

Yes, I'm Italian. How did you find out?

Originally Posted by D-ray

I've joined the Italian group of the forum, and you were inside of it, among some other three guys. Also, your location is "Southern Europe"!
Good to know that I'm not the only one here that keeps giving love to the turtles, in Italy.

I hope you both are doing well over there, with everything that's going on.

But to answer the original question, I don't see anything that the OP mentioned that would've confused me at all in regards to this movie. I mean that only thing that might've confused me is if I were watching the 2007 movie as my introduction to the franchise. It's probably best to have prior exposure to the TMNT, otherwise that might make one have questions.