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Old 08-05-2022, 06:51 PM   #61
Coola Yagami
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People who claim that race is no longer a big deal and that they are colour blind do tend to care a lot when when a Caucasian character is changed to another race. If you don't see colour then surely you have little problem telling who that character is supposed to be. Strangely they rarely get as upset about non-white characters being made white.

Also the MCU Valkyrie is an original character, it's not supposed to be Brunhilde.
Naw, raceswaps just shouldn't happen. Cast someone who best looks the part of go create your own original movie with your own original characters.

I'm not sure about Valkyrie being an original character. Wasn't her actress going on and on about how she wanted to show off that the character was bi cause she was bi in the comics?
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Old 08-05-2022, 07:00 PM   #62
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Nah, race swapping is fine. Doesn't matter 99% of the time and the priority is serving the story being told. Hire the best actor, don't worry about the color.

Doing it to meet a quota is another thing.

Same with voice acting. This insinuation that people have to be the same color as the character they are portraying is ridiculous.
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Old 08-05-2022, 07:08 PM   #63
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Nah, race swapping is fine. Doesn't matter 99% of the time and the priority is serving the story being told. Hire the best actor, don't worry about the color.

Doing it to meet a quota is another thing.

Same with voice acting. This insinuation that people have to be the same color as the character they are portraying is ridiculous.
I mean... that kinda come with portraying someone based on a pre-existing anything. Like unless it's some sort of parody or what-if themed comedy, if you're gonna grab someone to portray Abe Lincoln, you grab the closest guy you can to portray Abe Lincoln. Not just the race mind you, but overall look and build. You're not gonna be casing Danny DeVito for the role, despite him being white.
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Old 08-05-2022, 07:19 PM   #64
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If you’re fan-casting in Wizard Magazine, I guess. The only thing they ever got right was Patrick Stewart as Charles Xavier, who just happened to be bald and a great fit for the character.

Otherwise, casting based on appearance is a recipe for a crap movie. You can play around in the costume and makeup phase, if it’s fitting, but you don’t make someone’s physical appearance a priority unless you have to.
Instead, you cast the best actor, who understands the character and the material. They won’t necessarily have the same skin color as the fictional character they are portraying.

Like, imagine you have two actors audition for the James Gordon role, and you cast the one with the right skin color over the one with the superior acting ability - that’s dumb if you’re trying to make the best movie possible.

Would it be nice to have the best actor, who also resembles the “correct” skin color? Sure, I guess. Still seems pretty trivial to me, in terms of being told a good story.

If a character is strongly informed by their skin color, like Abe Lincoln, yes that matters. Most comic book characters? Not really.

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Old 08-05-2022, 07:47 PM   #65
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If you’re fan-casting in Wizard Magazine, I guess. The only thing they ever got right was Patrick Stewart as Charles Xavier, who just happened to be bald and a great fit for the character.

Otherwise, casting based on appearance is a recipe for a crap movie. You can play around in the costume and makeup phase, if it’s fitting, but you don’t make someone’s physical appearance a priority unless you have to.
Instead, you cast the best actor, who understands the character and the material. They won’t necessarily have the same skin color as the fictional character they are portraying.

Like, imagine you have two actors audition for the James Gordon role, and you cast the one with the right skin color over the one with the superior acting ability - that’s dumb if you’re trying to make the best movie possible.

Would it be nice to have the best actor, who also resembles the “correct” skin color? Sure, I guess. Still seems pretty trivial to me, in terms of being told a good story.

If a character is strongly informed by their skin color, like Abe Lincoln, yes that matters. Most comic book characters? Not really.
Still falls under the role of if I need to be told this person is so-and-so, you're already doing it wrong.

And you're acting as a certain type of person just doesn't exist. There's a difference between 'we're looking for the best possible person for the role' and 'we're excluding white people right off the bat despite the person they're portraying white, we'll just make it sound like there just wasn't a white person suited for the role which is why we chose insert woke token here'. And hey, there's also the case of an unknown getting a big break because they just so happened to be the right person for the role.

Or you know. Create your own original movie with your own original characters. No one can say this or that cause it's your original story and if your character is a black gay guy that goes by zir pronouns, that's how the character was from conception.
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Old 08-05-2022, 08:12 PM   #66
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I disagree that a character needs to perfectly resemble who they are based upon. It just depends on what you value in a story, but to me that's trivial.

I'm not acting as if a certain type of person doesn't exist, but yes you are narrowing your potential for finding talent if you limit your search to "white guy who can grow a good moustache!" For Gordon (sticking with this example).

Of course, you can find a good white actor with a moustache, but that doesn't mean he's the best for the role or better than the guy next to him who happens to be black, Asian, etc.

Again, its just trivial in the grand scheme of most stories, which is why I dont care. It simply matters not, beyond a superficial level in most cases. Exceptions exist of course.

You're saying that if a character is race-swapped, you might as well not adapt the story at all? Agree to disagree. That sounds utterly boring and lame to me. I don't understand the need to adapt something 1:1, in the vein of Snyder's Watchmen or just not doing it at all. I just feel like it's a super unimaginative and dull way to look at adaptation.

It's needlessly stubborn to the detriment of good storytelling. But that's just my opinion.
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Old 08-06-2022, 11:37 AM   #67
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I disagree that a character needs to perfectly resemble who they are based upon. It just depends on what you value in a story, but to me that's trivial.

I'm not acting as if a certain type of person doesn't exist, but yes you are narrowing your potential for finding talent if you limit your search to "white guy who can grow a good moustache!" For Gordon (sticking with this example).

Of course, you can find a good white actor with a moustache, but that doesn't mean he's the best for the role or better than the guy next to him who happens to be black, Asian, etc.

Again, its just trivial in the grand scheme of most stories, which is why I dont care. It simply matters not, beyond a superficial level in most cases. Exceptions exist of course.

You're saying that if a character is race-swapped, you might as well not adapt the story at all? Agree to disagree. That sounds utterly boring and lame to me. I don't understand the need to adapt something 1:1, in the vein of Snyder's Watchmen or just not doing it at all. I just feel like it's a super unimaginative and dull way to look at adaptation.

It's needlessly stubborn to the detriment of good storytelling. But that's just my opinion.
The thing with Gordon though is he literally looked like he stepped out of the comics in The Dark Knight trilogy, so it shows it can be done. It's just a matter of the studios going for it.

Agree to disagree I guess. But making a movie based on a pre-existing series and making everyone look as accurate as possible is far from 'boring'. You would (or should) be engrossed by the story, the themes, the action and overall bringing whatever fictional world to life. At the very least you're not distracted by seeing 'person in name only' and continuing to remind yourself that it's whoever it's supposed to be.
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Old 08-06-2022, 12:23 PM   #68
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Does Seth Rogen even like Turtles? Or is he like Kevin Smith with He-Man?
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Old 08-06-2022, 12:45 PM   #69
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Does Seth Rogen even like Turtles? Or is he like Kevin Smith with He-Man?
I’m leaning toward the latter. I don’t recall him ever doing anything TMNT-related before this film.
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Old 08-06-2022, 07:55 PM   #70
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get a grip, seriously...

let the people enjoy the film. I know I will give it a fair go!
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Old 08-06-2022, 08:26 PM   #71
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get a grip, seriously...

let the people enjoy the film. I know I will give it a fair go!

Who’s stopping you all from watching and enjoying it? Not me, that’s for sure.
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Old 08-06-2022, 10:41 PM   #72
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How can you boycott something that doesn't exist? Let's see the trailer first.
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Old 08-06-2022, 10:56 PM   #73
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I hope the turtles are not giants like in Bayturtles movies. More stealth and ninja scenes hopefully.
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Old 08-06-2022, 11:27 PM   #74
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How can you boycott something that doesn't exist? Let's see the trailer first.
I don’t care if Keanu Reeves plays one of the turtles or if the animation is breathtakingly beautiful. Still standing my ground, and again, that’s my personal choice.

And how do we know that the trailer won’t be misleading and that the movie won’t end up being hot garbage? At least I’ll be saving my money regardless of the outcome.
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Old 08-06-2022, 11:30 PM   #75
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I hope the turtles are not giants like in Bayturtles movies. More stealth and ninja scenes hopefully.
And less toilet humor.
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Old 08-07-2022, 12:26 AM   #76
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Less toilet humor? From the guy behind Sausage Party?

We'll see... Not holding my breath, even if it's just eye rolling child friendly toilet humor.
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Old 08-07-2022, 01:48 AM   #77
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I hope the turtles are not giants like in Bayturtles movies. More stealth and ninja scenes hopefully.
There is no reason to think there will be more stealth and ninja scenes in this and lots of reasons not to. But clearly they won't be giants. They're going to be "Diary of a Wimpy Kid" proportions, looks like.
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Old 08-07-2022, 06:55 AM   #78
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The thing with Gordon though is he literally looked like he stepped out of the comics in The Dark Knight trilogy, so it shows it can be done. It's just a matter of the studios going for it.

Agree to disagree I guess. But making a movie based on a pre-existing series and making everyone look as accurate as possible is far from 'boring'. You would (or should) be engrossed by the story, the themes, the action and overall bringing whatever fictional world to life. At the very least you're not distracted by seeing 'person in name only' and continuing to remind yourself that it's whoever it's supposed to be.
That’s true about Gordon in The Dark Knight - he is such a great interpretation of the character.

But it’s not because he is white and has a moustache. It’s because he is a great actor with a great script and director to work with.

If Gary Oldman was black, it wouldn’t make the role any worse, imo. And if that prevented Gary Oldman from getting the role, it’d be a damn shame.

I guess it’s cool that he also looks like he is from the comics but that’s just not what makes his performance great in any way.

It’s fine to make things as accurate as possible, until it becomes a detriment. That’s why I take some contention when the look of the actor is treated with such high priority. Then you’re placing accuracy above quality.

You’re not always going to get the best of all worlds just because TDK did with Gary Oldman. Sometimes you have to make a choice and bet on the best actor available to you.

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Old 08-07-2022, 07:55 AM   #79
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Less toilet humor? From the guy behind Sausage Party?
…good point.
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Old 08-07-2022, 09:43 AM   #80
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Look how well he did with Green Hornet.

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get a grip, seriously...

let the people enjoy the film. I know I will give it a fair go!
You must've been one of those kids that ran off screaming bloody murder that someone broke a rule in grammar school when you saw another kid step on the grass somewhere. If you are concerned that opinions dissenting of yours stops you from "enjoying the film" then you need to a grip of your own.

The movie might be great. But on it's own merits, Rogen doesn't exactly have a career littered with great films. So there's a preference factor there. Rogen also has a history of loud-mouthing and onboarding like a coward with extreme leftist rhetoric. So there's a moralistic component there to deciding whether or not to pay him. The thread itself is a bit obtuse, but it is valid conversation.
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