June 2021 Solicitations

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

One could argue - maybe cynically, maybe realistically - that sales figures spiked due to her mutation and the inherent market value of that particular issue going forward, not due to her characterization or any wonders she's done to the overall story.

Definitely. "They made a Fifth Turtle comic book canon! This thing is gonna be Worth BIG Bucks in 20 years!" was absolutely a factor.

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Definitely. "They made a Fifth Turtle comic book canon! This thing is gonna be Worth BIG Bucks in 20 years!" was absolutely a factor.

Yep.

I've said this many times on here, but I still cannot fathom why so many people (readers and creators alike) think a fifth turtle is some revolutionary idea. It's just the laziest idea, and it seems like they can never get it to work. The fifth turtle always sticks out like a sore thumb, whether it's a concept that never got done (ex: Kirby, Turtle Shredder) or what we've gotten canonically.

Welp. Can't wait for the next TMNT movie or show or comic to implement their own Kirby or Jennika or Venus or what-have-you. Maybe add in Poochie as the next fifth turtle. I'm sure that'll be hailed as creative and revolutionary too.

[Sophie Campbell]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

One could argue - maybe cynically, maybe realistically - that sales figures spiked due to her mutation and the inherent market value of that particular issue going forward, not due to her characterization or any wonders she's done to the overall story.

It's not cynical to see it that way, it is what it is, and that's a lot of what drives sales spikes when it comes to single issues. Collectors and flippers will take anything they can get, like there are people trying to sell issue 106 for (relatively) big bucks because it's the first appearance of the Slithery (who cares????). Same goes for spikes around issue 100 or even the Last Ronin.

It's a combination of factors, too, like you have to take into account that with monthly issue direct market sales figures, it's not how many issues were sold to readers or speculators looking to invest, it's how many copies were ordered by retailers regardless if those copies were actually sold to eventual customers or not. So a lot of the spikes are driven by what retailers think might be big, which is why we get overblown solicitation/catalog text like "this issue is a gamechanger for the Turtles!!!" when it's not really at all, and why there are 10:1 retailer incentive variant covers (order 10 copies and get the special variant cover, etc.).

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by superstaff

I've said this many times on here, but I still cannot fathom why so many people (readers and creators alike) think a fifth turtle is some revolutionary idea. It's just the laziest idea, and it seems like they can never get it to work. The fifth turtle always sticks out like a sore thumb, whether it's a concept that never got done (ex: Kirby, Turtle Shredder) or what we've gotten canonically.

The only "fifth turtle" that's ever been proven to work time and again is Slash, and even then it's because he usually starts out as a villain. Sort of a Green Ranger Syndrome, if you will. I'm not counting Tokka because there's a clear physical difference from the four OG Turtles, whereas Slash is usually portrayed as very similar to them and even wears a bandana himself.

Originally Posted by Sophie Campbell

It's a combination of factors, too, like you have to take into account that with monthly issue direct market sales figures, it's not how many issues were sold to readers or speculators looking to invest, it's how many copies were ordered by retailers regardless if those copies were actually sold to eventual customers or not. So a lot of the spikes are driven by what retailers think might be big, which is why we get overblown solicitation/catalog text like "this issue is a gamechanger for the Turtles!!!" when it's not really at all, and why there are 10:1 retailer incentive variant covers (order 10 copies and get the special variant cover, etc.).

Possibly a silly question, but what happens to the issues that were ordered by retailers and ended up not being sold?

[Sophie Campbell]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

Possibly a silly question, but what happens to the issues that were ordered by retailers and ended up not being sold?

Not a silly question! They either end up in the back issue bin or returned to the publisher (not all publishers have a return program, though).

[lonewarrior20]

i kinda wonder how comics are going to be of value 10 years from now. will almost everything be just digital and as egon said "print is dead", will tmnt still be going on, or door number three the worlds currently at mad max levels where we have to defend against both the dc and marvel fans? we got a chance we've been raised on the "abridged" comic series on ninja fighting while they have giant six gemstone gauntlets and baterangs. or for all we know we'll have entered farenheight 451 territory and books have been outlawed.

[CyberCubed]

Most unsold comics simply stay in the comic shop and go to "back issue bins." That's why you always see old DC/Marvel comics dating back years/decades in stacks on the floor or shelves. Even if they didn't sell when they were "new," there are always people who missed issues or are collecting for the first time so they stay there for a future sale.

[Sophie Campbell]

Originally Posted by lonewarrior20

i kinda wonder how comics are going to be of value 10 years from now. will almost everything be just digital and as egon said "print is dead", will tmnt still be going on, or door number three the worlds currently at mad max levels where we have to defend against both the dc and marvel fans? we got a chance we've been raised on the "abridged" comic series on ninja fighting while they have giant six gemstone gauntlets and baterangs. or for all we know we'll have entered farenheight 451 territory and books have been outlawed.

Hopefully comics won't be valuable at all and we can finally be rid of the speculator collectible stuff that keeps threatening comic shops. BARF. I'm sure TMNT will be still around 10 years from now, that's not a very long time. What about 100 years from now?!

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Most unsold comics simply stay in the comic shop and go to "back issue bins." That's why you always see old DC/Marvel comics dating back years/decades in stacks on the floor or shelves. Even if they didn't sell when they were "new," there are always people who missed issues or are collecting for the first time so they stay there for a future sale.

Yeah most of the time they just end up in back issues or stored somewhere on the store's premises because the shop doesn't have any other way to deal with them, it's either hope someone buys them down the line or throw them all out. Part of the direct market's whole thing is non-returnability unlike when comics would be sold at news stands and grocery stores or whatever, but I think some publishers do returns every now and again these days?

I don't know, hopefully we'll eventually figure out something else besides the direct market, maybe the industry will move exclusively into book-format once the direct market everything collapses. Seems like it might with how Marvel and DC are switching to their own distributors and leaving Diamond high and dry.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Sophie Campbell

What about 100 years from now?!

I'm pretty sure turtles can and will survive climate change.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Sophie Campbell

I'm sure TMNT will be still around 10 years from now, that's not a very long time. What about 100 years from now?!

Interesting question. By 2121, all of the officially produced TMNT material made up until 2025 (with the possible exception of Rick Veitch's stuff) will have entered the public domain. The first two issues of Mirage will have been public domain for about 41 years.

If TMNT manages to be a cultural milestone until 2080, you can imagine a similar journey the Oz books have had. Tons of adaptations made because it's public domain but with a really weird dominance of some.

But yes, assuming some popularity is maintained by 2080, anyone can and will publish their own TMNT comics without the need for a license contract.

[lonewarrior20]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Interesting question. By 2121, all of the officially produced TMNT material made up until 2025 (with the possible exception of Rick Veitch's stuff) will have entered the public domain. The first two issues of Mirage will have been public domain for about 41 years.

If TMNT manages to be a cultural milestone until 2080, you can imagine a similar journey the Oz books have had. Tons of adaptations made because it's public domain but with a really weird dominance of some.

But yes, assuming some popularity is maintained by 2080, anyone can and will publish their own TMNT comics without the need for a license contract.

all we need is shredder the musical. although, we could also go the way of trekies and almost make it into a religion.

"and then the green ooze pored onto the four ordinary turtles and then they changed into legendary heroes. leonardo the leader whose heart was gold. raphael whose whit could slay the mighty. donatello the forger of machines. and michelangelo the party dude."

[Leo656]

Ah, the old "Frankenstein and Dracula" Public Domain Paradox.

Good: Literally anyone can produce a story with these characters and sell it!

Bad: Most people are idiots, and therefore almost all of the "new stuff" is absolute trash!

I once skimmed through a Frankenstein novel my wife's grandmother left laying around. It was a present-day sequel to the original novel, and The Monster was some kind of Black Ops government super-soldier or a spy or some sh*t. I read the back cover description, skimmed like four pages, and wished upon a star that every single person who'd worked on it would spontaneously combust.

I don't know if they did or not - I didn't check the news that week - but I was wishing, like, SUPER hard.

Stuff entering the public domain is one of those things that SOUNDS like a great idea in theory. In practice... eeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....

[ChosenOne]

In theory, we can already get a pretty good idea of what will be done with the franchise once it enters the public domain by taking a look at fanfiction. And if other works in the public domain are any indication, none of those new approaches, even if they somehow manage not to suck, will ever take the place of the original version(s) in the public's heart.

[Sophie Campbell]

Assuming copyright law is still similar to what we have now come 2080 or whenever it is, somehow I don't see TMNT legit entering public domain, I feel like Viacom will figure out a way to petition to extend their ownership of the property the way Disney has manipulated public domain in regards to their own IP. We're supposed to get Superman and Batman and other big ones like that entering the public domain in about a decade but there's no way Warner Bros. is going to let that happen.

I'm predicting that sometime before 2080, Disney is going to end up owning TMNT after buying out and absorbing Viacom.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Sophie Campbell

I'm predicting that sometime before 2080, Disney is going to end up owning TMNT after buying out and absorbing Viacom.

Well, if that's what it takes for an official crossover with Daredevil to happen...

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Ah, the old "Frankenstein and Dracula" Public Domain Paradox.

Good: Literally anyone can produce a story with these characters and sell it!

Bad: Most people are idiots, and therefore almost all of the "new stuff" is absolute trash!

I once skimmed through a Frankenstein novel my wife's grandmother left laying around. It was a present-day sequel to the original novel, and The Monster was some kind of Black Ops government super-soldier or a spy or some sh*t. I read the back cover description, skimmed like four pages, and wished upon a star that every single person who'd worked on it would spontaneously combust.

I don't know if they did or not - I didn't check the news that week - but I was wishing, like, SUPER hard.

Stuff entering the public domain is one of those things that SOUNDS like a great idea in theory. In practice... eeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....

Well, look at it like this:

1. Black Ops Frankenstein might be awful but Hammer Frankenstein isn't, both of these could only exist because the novel entered the public domain. The difference is, I don't have to read the crappy book. Same thing with Dracula, Dracula Untold being garbage doesn't make Castlevania any less fun to play.
2. Even if literally no new good material is made, the old material can still be shared freely. If I want to read Frankenstein in Swedish, I have at least four different translations to pick from. If I don't feel like reading it in Swedish, I can instead order it in German, Spanish, French, Romanian, Chinese, Portuguese, Italian, Catalonian, Latin, Dutch, Norwegian, Danish, Finnish, Estonian, Lithuanian, Turkish, Russian, Japanese, Hebrew, Irish, Korean, Thai, Armenian, Bulgarian, Arabic, Polish, Welsh, Icelandic, Greek and of course English. Hell, I don't even need to but it or even borrow it to read it in English, I can just download a PDF from Gutenberg for free.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Sophie Campbell

Assuming copyright law is still similar to what we have now come 2080 or whenever it is, somehow I don't see TMNT legit entering public domain, I feel like Viacom will figure out a way to petition to extend their ownership of the property the way Disney has manipulated public domain in regards to their own IP. We're supposed to get Superman and Batman and other big ones like that entering the public domain in about a decade but there's no way Warner Bros. is going to let that happen.

I'm predicting that sometime before 2080, Disney is going to end up owning TMNT after buying out and absorbing Viacom.

While it is true that copyright law in the US could change by 2080, there doesn't appear to be much incentive right now to change it. The "Mickey Mouse act" is what extended copyright duration to 95 and the nickname came from Disney lobbying for it about 5 years before Mickey Mouse would have entered the public domain. There wasn't any new push for legislative change in 2018 and the 95 year rule is still in place.

Maybe because extending it from 95 to 120 or more would be absurd. If that happened in 2018 then suddenly material from 1898 would be under copyright protection.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by Sophie Campbell

Assuming copyright law is still similar to what we have now come 2080 or whenever it is, somehow I don't see TMNT legit entering public domain, I feel like Viacom will figure out a way to petition to extend their ownership of the property the way Disney has manipulated public domain in regards to their own IP. We're supposed to get Superman and Batman and other big ones like that entering the public domain in about a decade but there's no way Warner Bros. is going to let that happen.

I'm predicting that sometime before 2080, Disney is going to end up owning TMNT after buying out and absorbing Viacom.

If that happens, IDW would lose the TMNT License and then Marvel would be the one publishing the TMNT comics.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

If that happens, IDW would lose the TMNT License and then Marvel would be the one publishing the TMNT comics.

... Yes, if Disney buys Viacom that would very likely be what would happen... But we are talking about a timeframe of a little under 60 years here, we can't be sure if Disney, Marvel, IDW and/or Viacom still exist by 2080.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by neatoman

... Yes, if Disney buys Viacom that would very likely be what would happen... But we are talking about a timeframe of a little under 60 years here, we can't be sure if Disney, Marvel, IDW and/or Viacom still exist by 2080.

That's because one company will be left standing. Disney will absorb all of them.