Is anyone else glad the TMNT and villains don't have "power levels?"

*CyberCubed* · 02-26-2023, 04:23 PM

One of the best thing about TMNT is the characters never actually "get stronger" over the course of each series (for the most part), and all the characters stay at the same relative strength over the series. It isn't like anime where the characters "power up" or gain new abilities over the series where they couldn't beat a villain before.

Same thing with the villains, the villains all stay at the same relative strength (sometimes Shredder is too strong for the Turtles at first, but the Turtles don't "power up" to beat him, same with Shredder), and they just do basic martial arts training with Splinter. When new villains show up they aren't more powerful than older villains. It's all relative.

Sure there's some exceptions, but for the most part the Turtles and the villains do not have power levels over each cartoon and comic series.

*IndigoErth* · 02-26-2023, 04:55 PM

All the more reason for me to disagree with those who want TMNT turned into an anime. Definitely prefer that its a bit more down to Earth in that regard.

I suppose it has its moments, like with 2012 Shredder mutating himself, FW having second mutations, or the 2003 Turtles having the Tribunal season that culminates into turning into dragons, but at least they were temporary and the 2012 Shredder deal was toward the end of his presence in the show.

Rise was probably the one more at risk of having to go there, had the show remained around longer, considering how they started off with a Shredder that some overpowered demon thing.

*neatoman* · 02-26-2023, 06:54 PM

It's not really the kind of franchise where it makes that much for the main characters to get physically stronger all the time, is it? Expecting the Turtles to get stronger is kind of like expecting Batman to get increasingly more physically strong, maybe getting more and more absurd in some sense like Batman arguably has, but not in a superhuman sense.

The franchise does flirt with the concept of them being able to astral project and such or having magic weaponry, though not so much them being able to level mountains or learning how to fly through simple training or further modifications. I guess the closest you get to that is is stuff like Mike getting more muscular in Last Ronin due to mutation but It's not clear how much more powerful he is in a physical sense.

Although, as for the concept itself being bad.. Seems like the sort of thing that could be handled better than it usually is. Dragon Ball literally has an old man destroy the moon relatively easily less than a tenth through the entire series and it keeps expecting you to just accept that other characters are more powerful than him, even though it's really difficult to show a feat of power much more impressive than that. I guess that if you keep the feats impressive enough for the reader to accept that the characters are more powerful than what you've seen before, but keep them at a comprehensive level for as long as possible, then I don't think it'll get too stupid too quickly. Let's say if Bad Guy A can bend a lead pipe and Bad Guy B can lift a motocycle, you can probably get to Bad Guy Z without having them blow up planets.

*CyberCubed* · 02-26-2023, 07:11 PM

I guess it is true superhero comics don't tend to do this either. Like Superman and Spider-man have instances where they get a bit stronger than usual sometimes, but then they usually revert back to whatever their "standard strength" is by the time that story ends. Like the Superman now isn't a million times stronger than the Superman from 30 years ago.

And while some enemies are stronger than others, the superheroes usually come up with a clever way to defeat them rather than training to get more powerful.

*Coola Yagami* · 02-26-2023, 11:25 PM

Yeah, I'm kinda glad American comics don't do that. In a sense it wouldn't work because other than one-shot villains, you're expected to see Batman fight the Joker over and over again across decades, same with Spider-Man and the Green Goblin, Superman and Lex Luthor and whatever else. In anime for the most part each villain has their set arc and once that arc is over they either reform or die at the end.

Since the arc usually revolves around the hero/heroes getting strong enough to kill that one bad guy, the only way to up the stakes is make the next one even stronger. But if you were planning to have Yusuke fight Toguro a thousand times across decades, it wouldn't work if they had to continually get stronger every time. It would be insane.

It's funny how DB Super kinda turned Freeza into a recurring villain now, having fought the heroes multiple times past his original arc. I am very curious where they are going with the Black Freeza thing.

*Cowabung-Gal* · 02-27-2023, 01:18 AM

“Donatello, what is the Shredder’s power level?!”

*CyberCubed* · 02-27-2023, 05:35 AM

Or in modern anime like My Hero Academia, there's still obviously power levels between the villains and heroes.

*IMJ* · 02-27-2023, 12:37 PM

The only aspects of TMNT I'd be happy to see as an anime would be some kind of animated movie done in an anime art and animation style something akin to Ninja Scroll or Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust. Or something resembling that from Mad Engine would be pretty awesome visually.

A fully fleshed out story - like make an animated movie that adapts the first issue of TMNT from Mirage beginning to end but as a fleshed out movie.

Zog The Magnificent · 02-27-2023, 05:23 PM

Maybe I don't totally understand what power levels are, but don't the turtles, at least in the three story driven cartoons, get more powerful and skilled as the show goes on? Isn't that just part of their character development, and the natural result of continuing to train and use their skills? Wouldn't it be weirder if they DIDN'T get stronger as the story went on? Again, I may not actually know what power levels are.

*Coola Yagami* · 02-27-2023, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zog The Magnificent

Maybe I don't totally understand what power levels are, but don't the turtles, at least in the three story driven cartoons, get more powerful and skilled as the show goes on? Isn't that just part of their character development, and the natural result of continuing to train and use their skills? Wouldn't it be weirder if they DIDN'T get stronger as the story went on? Again, I may not actually know what power levels are.

With anime it kinda gets carried away. Let's just say if the Turtles went the anime route, they'd be lifting cars in the first arc, lifting buses in the second arc, and then destroying entire buildings with a single punch by the end of the third arc. And new enemy they would face with then be more powerful than the last, forcing the turtles to continue to get stronger when they can destroy entire cities or even countries with their fists.

~~Sumac~~ · 02-28-2023, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

FW having second mutations, or the 2003 Turtles having the Tribunal season that culminates into turning into dragons

Coincidentally, those are my least favorite plot developments in either series. Secondary mutations felt like a cheap gimmick, which went nowhere and dragon stuff was just too generic anime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Yeah, I'm kinda glad American comics don't do that. In a sense it wouldn't work because other than one-shot villains, you're expected to see Batman fight the Joker over and over again across decades, same with Spider-Man and the Green Goblin, Superman and Lex Luthor and whatever else. In anime for the most part each villain has their set arc and once that arc is over they either reform or die at the end.

Yeah, I wanted to point out that major difference is that American comic books and majority of the old cartoons are meant to be "infinite" in a sense. They can't have "closure" or "finale", whereas manga and anime usually made with definitive end in mind. Bar some exceptions.

First three TMNT cartoons are rather curious in a sense that all of them have definitive ending.

Toxin45 · 03-06-2023, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMJ

The only aspects of TMNT I'd be happy to see as an anime would be some kind of animated movie done in an anime art and animation style something akin to Ninja Scroll or Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust. Or something resembling that from Mad Engine would be pretty awesome visually.

A fully fleshed out story - like make an animated movie that adapts the first issue of TMNT from Mirage beginning to end but as a fleshed out movie.

Or they just go with idw comics adaptions

Toxin45 · 03-06-2023, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Yeah, I'm kinda glad American comics don't do that. In a sense it wouldn't work because other than one-shot villains, you're expected to see Batman fight the Joker over and over again across decades, same with Spider-Man and the Green Goblin, Superman and Lex Luthor and whatever else. In anime for the most part each villain has their set arc and once that arc is over they either reform or die at the end.

Since the arc usually revolves around the hero/heroes getting strong enough to kill that one bad guy, the only way to up the stakes is make the next one even stronger. But if you were planning to have Yusuke fight Toguro a thousand times across decades, it wouldn't work if they had to continually get stronger every time. It would be insane.

It's funny how DB Super kinda turned Freeza into a recurring villain now, having fought the heroes multiple times past his original arc. I am very curious where they are going with the Black Freeza thing.

well tmnt was a small indie comics before becoming what it is now.Most Indeptent comics outside of the big two have more freedom for complete stories.

TheLabRat · 03-10-2023, 04:55 AM

Depend on what kind of anime. In Ninja Scroll and Basilisk, their ninjutsu can fail or weaken in some situations, and if the enemy becomes familiar with their ability, they will figure out how to counter it. This also underscores how important it is to have information about the enemy in the first place.

In Yoshihiro Togashi's Hunter X Hunter. Some main characters grow stronger during the story, but they may still need to plan to defeat some powerful enemies. During the battle between Chrollo and Hisoka. Chrollo also defeated Hisoka through planning and field advantages. Guns can potentially harm and even kill any nen users who isn't a strong enhancer. Chimera Ants King Meruem was almost killed by a mini-nuke. even if he was saved by his two royal guards, the poisonou substance from the nuke's blast still killed them.

In Berserk manga, Guts grow stronger through training, the new weapons and other equipment. He has a berserker armor that grant him superhuman strength, but this also consume wearer's mental. But even so, whenever he fights against some mighty apostle, it is still a hard fight for him.

I like that the turltes not only become stronger in the original skills, experience, but also learn new things, such as other martial arts or other knowledge, and become flexible fighters that could be deployed in different kinds of battles. I think The Turtles should be more willing to use hidden weapon, poison, throw lime powder and bombs or other disgraceful means to win because they are "ninja". Donnie probably has more gadget, just like Batman.

I've never like the writers always put Leo in some stupid bushido dilemma to make him look like a naive fool. Honestly, even the a samurai wouldn't refuse to use some disgraceful mean to win the battle. What he should do is assassinate and ambush, not yelling at the enemy to come and fight him fairly, unless he is trying to lure the enemy into a trap. Even Miyamoto Musashi was late on purpose to infuriate Sasaki Kojiro, and beats him to death with a wooden oar.

02-26-2023, 04:23 PM	#1
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 41,050	Is anyone else glad the TMNT and villains don't have "power levels?" One of the best thing about TMNT is the characters never actually "get stronger" over the course of each series (for the most part), and all the characters stay at the same relative strength over the series. It isn't like anime where the characters "power up" or gain new abilities over the series where they couldn't beat a villain before. Same thing with the villains, the villains all stay at the same relative strength (sometimes Shredder is too strong for the Turtles at first, but the Turtles don't "power up" to beat him, same with Shredder), and they just do basic martial arts training with Splinter. When new villains show up they aren't more powerful than older villains. It's all relative. Sure there's some exceptions, but for the most part the Turtles and the villains do not have power levels over each cartoon and comic series.

02-26-2023, 11:25 PM	#5
Coola Yagami Overlord Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 14,009	Yeah, I'm kinda glad American comics don't do that. In a sense it wouldn't work because other than one-shot villains, you're expected to see Batman fight the Joker over and over again across decades, same with Spider-Man and the Green Goblin, Superman and Lex Luthor and whatever else. In anime for the most part each villain has their set arc and once that arc is over they either reform or die at the end. Since the arc usually revolves around the hero/heroes getting strong enough to kill that one bad guy, the only way to up the stakes is make the next one even stronger. But if you were planning to have Yusuke fight Toguro a thousand times across decades, it wouldn't work if they had to continually get stronger every time. It would be insane. It's funny how DB Super kinda turned Freeza into a recurring villain now, having fought the heroes multiple times past his original arc. I am very curious where they are going with the Black Freeza thing. __________________ "I was down with TMNT once, but then they changed what TMNT was. Now what I was down with is no longer TMNT and what TMNT now is seems weird and scary. And it'll happen to YOU." Check out my blog for Comic Reviews and other things. https://markepicblogofrandomness.blogspot.com/ I also started The AEW Crew, the All Elite Wrestling Fan Club! https://www.facebook.com/groups/637508120044168/

02-27-2023, 01:18 AM	#6
Cowabung-Gal The Party Dudette Join Date: Apr 2022 Location: U-S-A!! Posts: 2,195	“Donatello, what is the Shredder’s power level?!” __________________ Totally Interstellar

02-27-2023, 12:37 PM	#8
IMJ Emperor Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Midwest, U.S.A. Posts: 6,991	The only aspects of TMNT I'd be happy to see as an anime would be some kind of animated movie done in an anime art and animation style something akin to Ninja Scroll or Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust. Or something resembling that from Mad Engine would be pretty awesome visually. A fully fleshed out story - like make an animated movie that adapts the first issue of TMNT from Mirage beginning to end but as a fleshed out movie. __________________ Wave 1 Collectibles Online Market Watch Blog Collection Photography

02-26-2023, 04:55 PM	#2
IndigoErth Team Blue Boy Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: U.S., East Coast Posts: 15,242	All the more reason for me to disagree with those who want TMNT turned into an anime. Definitely prefer that its a bit more down to Earth in that regard. I suppose it has its moments, like with 2012 Shredder mutating himself, FW having second mutations, or the 2003 Turtles having the Tribunal season that culminates into turning into dragons, but at least they were temporary and the 2012 Shredder deal was toward the end of his presence in the show. Rise was probably the one more at risk of having to go there, had the show remained around longer, considering how they started off with a Shredder that some overpowered demon thing.

02-26-2023, 07:11 PM	#4
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 41,050	I guess it is true superhero comics don't tend to do this either. Like Superman and Spider-man have instances where they get a bit stronger than usual sometimes, but then they usually revert back to whatever their "standard strength" is by the time that story ends. Like the Superman now isn't a million times stronger than the Superman from 30 years ago. And while some enemies are stronger than others, the superheroes usually come up with a clever way to defeat them rather than training to get more powerful.

02-27-2023, 05:35 AM	#7
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 41,050	Or in modern anime like My Hero Academia, there's still obviously power levels between the villains and heroes.

02-27-2023, 05:23 PM	#9
Zog The Magnificent Stone Warrior Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 570	Maybe I don't totally understand what power levels are, but don't the turtles, at least in the three story driven cartoons, get more powerful and skilled as the show goes on? Isn't that just part of their character development, and the natural result of continuing to train and use their skills? Wouldn't it be weirder if they DIDN'T get stronger as the story went on? Again, I may not actually know what power levels are.

03-10-2023, 04:55 AM	#14
TheLabRat Hench Mutant Join Date: Feb 2023 Posts: 264	Depend on what kind of anime. In Ninja Scroll and Basilisk, their ninjutsu can fail or weaken in some situations, and if the enemy becomes familiar with their ability, they will figure out how to counter it. This also underscores how important it is to have information about the enemy in the first place. In Yoshihiro Togashi's Hunter X Hunter. Some main characters grow stronger during the story, but they may still need to plan to defeat some powerful enemies. During the battle between Chrollo and Hisoka. Chrollo also defeated Hisoka through planning and field advantages. Guns can potentially harm and even kill any nen users who isn't a strong enhancer. Chimera Ants King Meruem was almost killed by a mini-nuke. even if he was saved by his two royal guards, the poisonou substance from the nuke's blast still killed them. In Berserk manga, Guts grow stronger through training, the new weapons and other equipment. He has a berserker armor that grant him superhuman strength, but this also consume wearer's mental. But even so, whenever he fights against some mighty apostle, it is still a hard fight for him. I like that the turltes not only become stronger in the original skills, experience, but also learn new things, such as other martial arts or other knowledge, and become flexible fighters that could be deployed in different kinds of battles. I think The Turtles should be more willing to use hidden weapon, poison, throw lime powder and bombs or other disgraceful means to win because they are "ninja". Donnie probably has more gadget, just like Batman. I've never like the writers always put Leo in some stupid bushido dilemma to make him look like a naive fool. Honestly, even the a samurai wouldn't refuse to use some disgraceful mean to win the battle. What he should do is assassinate and ambush, not yelling at the enemy to come and fight him fairly, unless he is trying to lure the enemy into a trap. Even Miyamoto Musashi was late on purpose to infuriate Sasaki Kojiro, and beats him to death with a wooden oar.