Dragon Ball Super Episode Discussion Topic

[Anarchistguy]

Originally Posted by sdp

Why didn't Goku become super Saiyan when tambourine killed krillin?

Maybe because the concept didn't exist in Toriyama's mind back then?

People keep forgetting that when Akira Toriyama was fully in charge, like 95% of Dragon Ball's story was improvised.

[Allio]

Which is what makes Dragon ball the better of the 4 shows

[Anarchistguy]

Originally Posted by Allio

Which is what makes Dragon ball the better of the 4 shows

Whenever I say "Dragon Ball", I'm referring to the combination of DB and DBZ, not just when Goku was a kid.

[CyberCubed]

Yeah, Toriyama always wrote it that way. Dragonball was originally going to end with the Pilaf arc and just be a short gag manga. It only became a fighting anime because his editor suggested to him to make a tournament after the first arc, and it went from there. He wrote the entire series off the seat of his pants with almost no planning ahead, because he was rushed to get a new chapter out every week.

[Coola Yagami]

Toei knows the real money comes from a weekly series, not just a movie that comes and goes. We'll be seeing Dragonball Ultra (or whatever they'll call it) eventually.

I seriously doubt when they had those DB meetings they actually said 'no new anime series'.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Toei knows the real money comes from a weekly series, not just a movie that comes and goes. We'll be seeing Dragonball Ultra (or whatever they'll call it) eventually.

I seriously doubt when they had those DB meetings they actually said 'no new anime series'.

Its been over 3 years, soon to be 4 years. The new movie slated for 2022 implies no new series that year. Toei also has other shows booked.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The manga has already gone on its own path from the anime (the tournament of power was handled completely differently in the manga, with different fights and different outcomes despite the same climax), so I wouldn't be surprised if they become their own continuities now. The manga arcs might be skipped over in the show, because well, there is no show. And as seen the plot with the next movie is an all-new story set when Pan is older unlike the Moro/Granola stuff where she's still a baby. They're skipping over that era already.

Originally Posted by sdp

i'm glad those manga "purists" can now tick off with their "it's not canon to the manga" whenever the anime did something different. at this point the manga is less important than the anime and the purest form of the artists intention.

FINALLY CANON
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/.../c/c3/2863.png




I doubt it if DB just became a merchandise juggernaut again. Fans also speculated it would only be movies going forward and then Super was announced. IT doesn't matter since Super is just official fanfiction at this point.

Again, there are literally no confirmed contradictions here. The Super anime didn't go in a different direction from the manga, it just stopped at a spot where the manga just continued on. As far as we know the new movie can just take place place after Moro and Granolah, and the manga also confirmed the events of the Broly movie happened.

Nor does it make sense to say the manga is "less important" somehow. Jaco is a character who had only showed up in manga before RoF and he still showed up in that movie like you were expected to know who he was. And let's not forget that the anime's depiction of Bardock has quite clearly been ignored in favor how the manga depicted him. And Haiya Dragon and Maron are still clearly not part of canon since... You know, the stories they appear in clearly aren't, they're in contradiction with the main plot.

I get don't get where you get these absurd ideas. The manga is still obviously the core of the series and anything originating with the anime is still either ignored or rebooted if brought back. Clearly the old Broly and the Bardock special can't happen if the manga depicts very different versions of these events, of which new Broly movie is an adaptation by the way.

[CyberCubed]

The events of the old Bardock special still happened, the only thing they changed is how Goku got sent off into space.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The events of the old Bardock special still happened, the only thing they changed is how Goku got sent off into space.

The way Bardock figured what was going to happen, who his partner was, the depiction of Saiyan society, Goku's age at his departure, Vegeta's reasons for being off the planet, etc. Virtually every single detail is different in some way, the old Bardock special has clearly been ignored.

[Anarchistguy]

And Bardock in the old TV special was not a good guy by any means, whereas recent Bardock is a just a "tough guy with a soft heart" cliche.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Not powerful enough.

One of the things about being a Super Saiyan other than extreme rage is being powerful enough, exceeding the limits of a regular Saiyan. That's why Vegeta started freaking out when Goku one-shotted Rikuum. At that time it was unheard of for a single Saiyan to take down someone of that calibur alone, let alone with s single blow.

I don't think the concept of a Saiya-jin was even a thing yet. He was just pulling from the Journey to the West story. Main character represented the monkey. Most adaptations or stories loosely inspired by or based on the Journey to the West story had the main character have the monkey characteristics or something to prevent them from transforming. For Goku, it was his tail. Without it, he can't transform. The Saiyuki series comes to mind too and other Japanese works with inspirations from the Chinese story.

Originally Posted by sdp

i'm glad those manga "purists" can now tick off with their "it's not canon to the manga" whenever the anime did something different. at this point the manga is less important than the anime and the purest form of the artists intention.

FINALLY CANON
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/.../c/c3/2863.png

Is that Marron? Is she in the Super manga now? If that is her, adding her in for original Z was kind of pointless. Krillin didn't even react when everything was done with the Androids and Cell. He was already hung up on 18. It's funny how I didn't catch that back then or even think much of it.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

I don't think the concept of a Saiya-jin was even a thing yet. He was just pulling from the Journey to the West story. Main character represented the monkey. Most adaptations or stories loosely inspired by or based on the Journey to the West story had the main character have the monkey characteristics or something to prevent them from transforming. For Goku, it was his tail. Without it, he can't transform. The Saiyuki series comes to mind too and other Japanese works with inspirations from the Chinese story.Is that Marron? Is she in the Super manga now? If that is her, adding her in for original Z was kind of pointless. Krillin didn't even react when everything was done with the Androids and Cell. He was already hung up on 18. It's funny how I didn't catch that back then or even think much of it.

I was giving the in-story reason, obviously the real-world reason is AT didn't think of Super Saiyan (or Saiyans in general) at the time, lol.

That was a random pic of Marron from DBZ. I still think Toei isn't stupid enough to not animate the Moro and Granola arcs. That's just leaving money on the table. And I also would not be surprised if the manga referenced the movie just like it referenced Resurrection F and the Broly movie.

[CyberCubed]

I mean it's no different than the random stories they did in the videogames that aren't canon and received no anime adaption. In the Xenoverse series, Future Trunks is a time patrol agent who travels through time helping the "Kai of Time" fix problems with the timeline. Obviously in the main anime, this never happened.

There's also Android 21 introduced in the new Fighter Z game, but she's not canon since she was never introduced in the anime. And they probably never will adapt her.

The manga is basically becoming its own thing now, separate from anime canon where they're coming up with their own stories. It's not much different than the random videogame-only stories they do.

[Coola Yagami]

So more news and updated on the Dragonball Super movie. For some reason it's gonna released April 22nd in Japan but all the way into the summer for us in the states. Damn, Funimation dropped the ball as usual, especially since Resurrection F and DBS Broly were both released at around the same time in both countries.

The biggest thing though is that they finally allowed Goten and Trunks to age up some. This is the first time we seen Goten and Trunks older in the Dragonball Super style. Two noticeable things are that Goten seemed to have kept his father's hairstyle, the previous versions of him have had different hairstyles, and Trunks' hair is now blue to match DBS Future Trunks.

[CyberCubed]

It's the best news in a long time.

[Allio]

Too little too late for Goten. His only character is being one half of Gotenks.

[Coola Yagami]

Both of them are, except Trunks still has his Future self and the promise that he might become that some day (or not).

Gotenks himself is useless. Despite being a Super Saiyan 3 Fusion, he's not even considered important enough to be in the front lines. Plus it seems once Fusion was introduced, they don't even try to fight as individuals without skipping ahead straight to Fusion. Every fight they have in Super it's straight to Fusion.

I remember during the Tournament of Power, they were sent to watch over the forest in Android 17's absence from poachers. It would not surprise me that they become so reliant on Fusion, they'd fuse just to fight regular humans. I mean, they're even doing the Fusion pose on the movie poster.

[sdp]

Super is fanfiction trash, I mean you can still enjoy it for being fanwank but goes to s how how much effort and energy was put into GT.

[Allio]

GT had some nice concepts. But I wouldn’t give it more than that.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Allio

GT had some nice concepts. But I wouldn’t give it more than that.

GT sucked. It had interesting concepts but they were executed terribly. They had all these characters and the show was mostly Goku, Trunks and Pan. Even during the final saga, most of it was Goku and Pan flying off to defeat the Dragons one by one. I still say that they missed the perfect opportunity to have all the other characters take down the weaker dragons before they all had to team up for the final One-Star Dragon. Like we could have episodes dedicated to Goten, Trunks, Gohan, Uub and Vegeta taking down the lesser dragons. Then we never saw an older Gotenks, or even completely break the mold and have maybe Gohan fuse with Uub, I mean hey, think of the merchandising.