What if Shredder had Raised the Turtles

[victory_angel]

The Turtles, as we know them, are products of Splinter’s nurturing wisdom and his commitment to the honorable principles of ninjutsu. Raised to be defenders of good, they embrace teamwork, loyalty, and restraint. However, in the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles comic by Kevin Eastman and Peter Laird, the story had a far darker undertone. Splinter’s goal was vengeance. He trained the Turtles as his lethal instruments, bent on avenging the murder of Hamato Yoshi and Tang Shen. These early comics did not shy away from portraying the Turtles as warriors unafraid to take lives when necessary, reflecting a grittier, more violent ethos.

In the more sanitized television adaptations, the Turtles still fought fiercely but rarely resorted to killing. Any lethal outcomes were framed as acts of desperation or necessity, rather than deliberate choices. The emphasis shifted to defeating enemies through cleverness, teamwork, or humiliation, rather than death.

But what if the Turtles had not been raised by Splinter? What if Shredder, their sworn enemy, had captured them and molded them into his apprentices? Such an upbringing would fundamentally alter their identities, reshaping the very essence of who they are.

A Shift in Identity: Names Reflecting a Dark Legacy
Under Shredder's rule, the Turtles would not carry names inspired by Renaissance masters who celebrated creativity and human potential. Instead, their names would reflect figures from Japan's darker historical legacy—warlords and figures of infamy such as Oda Nobunaga, Toyotomi Hideyoshi, Tokugawa Ieyasu, and Ashikaga Yoshimasa. These names would serve as a constant reminder of their ruthless purpose, grounding them in a culture of ambition, power, and conquest rather than artistry and enlightenment.

This symbolic change alone speaks volumes. Instead of embodying ideals of creativity and balance, they would represent destruction and domination—values that Shredder would instill from the start.

The Team Dynamics Under Shredder
Raphael: The Chosen Leader
In this reality, Raphael's natural aggression and fiery temper would make him Shredder’s ideal candidate for leadership. Shredder’s obsession with vengeance and power aligns perfectly with Raph’s inclination to fight first and ask questions later. Under Shredder’s tutelage, Raphael’s anger would be cultivated, not tempered, transforming him into a relentless enforcer of Shredder's will.

Unlike Splinter, who taught Raphael to control his emotions and value his bond with his brothers, Shredder would see anger as a tool to be sharpened and wielded. Raph’s leadership would be fear-driven, emphasizing brute strength and unquestioning obedience, traits that Shredder prizes above all else.

Leonardo: The Embittered Lieutenant
Leonardo, who traditionally embodies discipline and nobility, would take on a far more cynical role. Constantly overshadowed by Raphael in Shredder’s eyes, Leo’s frustration would fester. Instead of aspiring to lead through example, he would become a cold, calculating enforcer of Shredder’s will. His adherence to discipline would make him a staunch ally of Shredder’s regime, but his heart would be filled with bitterness.

Gone would be Leonardo's geeky interests or moments of introspection. Under Shredder’s rule, there is no time for personal growth or exploration of identity. His sole focus would be on maintaining order among his brothers, not out of love or loyalty, but to ensure they serve their master efficiently.

Michelangelo: The Cruel Wildcard
Michelangelo’s trademark humor and carefree personality would take a sinister turn. In this darker timeline, his pranks wouldn’t be harmless or endearing but instead cruel and malicious. His unpredictability, a hallmark of his character, would become a liability in Shredder’s eyes. While his creativity might lead to unexpected successes in battle, Shredder would work to suppress his more erratic tendencies, viewing him as a potential loose cannon.

Despite this, Michelangelo’s cruelty would manifest in his combat style, using psychological and physical torment to destabilize his enemies. His sense of fun would remain, but it would be warped into a sadistic enjoyment of others’ suffering.

Donatello: The Exploited Outsider
Donatello’s pacifistic nature would make him the odd one out in this ruthless environment. While Shredder would value Donatello's intelligence and technological prowess, he would see Donnie’s reluctance to fight as a fatal flaw. Unlike Splinter, who celebrated Donatello’s gentle spirit and encouraged his brothers to respect his unique qualities, Shredder would treat Donnie’s non-violence as an unforgivable weakness.

Donatello would likely endure the most abuse from Shredder, both physical and psychological. He would be forced to develop weapons and devices for the Foot Clan, a task that would constantly remind him of his role as a tool rather than an equal. His brothers, hardened by Shredder’s teachings, might see him as a burden, further alienating him.

Shredder might even use Donatello as an example to the others, subjecting him to public punishment to reinforce the idea that any form of weakness—whether physical or emotional—would not be tolerated. Over time, this treatment might erode Donatello’s kind-hearted nature, replacing it with resentment or despair.

The Turtles’ Mission: Agents of Shredder’s Vengeance
Under Shredder’s control, the Turtles’ purpose would shift from protectors to conquerors. Instead of fighting for justice, they would carry out acts of terror and subjugation, enforcing Shredder’s will with brutal efficiency. They would be conditioned to see mercy as weakness and compassion as a liability. Their bond as brothers might persist but would be twisted by competition, mistrust, and fear, as Shredder would pit them against each other to ensure loyalty to him above all else.

The Loss of Potential
This alternate version of the Turtles serves as a stark contrast to the heroes they were meant to be. Raised by Splinter, the Turtles grew into a family bound by love, trust, and shared values. Their struggles and victories were defined by their resilience and the lessons they learned together. Under Shredder, they would lose not only their individual identities but also the essence of their brotherhood, becoming tools of destruction rather than symbols of hope.

This hypothetical scenario underscores the profound impact of nurture and environment. The Turtles’ transformation into Shredder’s enforcers highlights the fragile line between heroism and villainy—and the importance of the guiding hands that shape our paths.

What do you guys see happening if Shredder had raised the Turtles?

[neatoman]

Why is this a Nick specific thread?

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Why is this a Nick specific thread?

I’m pretty sure she only ever watched this version.

I’m heading into work, but this looks like an interesting topic. I’ll definitely give it a read when I get off.

[victory_angel]

I've seen the OG, 2K3, 2012, and Rise versions of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I made this question specifically about the 2012 Shredder because the OG Shredder was essentially an idiotic manchild, the 2K3 Shredder would discard or kill his followers the moment they were no longer useful to him, and Rise Shredder was more of an uncontrollable beast.

So, I was wondering: could any televised version of Shredder have a plausible reason to train the Turtles himself? Specifically, if we were to consider the 2012 version, it might be worth exploring the dynamics of how he finds Miwa and raises her in her mother’s stead. He trains her as Karai, shaping her into a pawn in his vendetta against Hamato Yoshi. Despite his cruel manipulations, in his human form, he does seem to care about her as his daughter, even while strictly maintaining control over her.

When Karai eventually learns the truth—that Shredder has fed her twisted lies her entire life—he begins to see her less as a daughter and more as another tool in his vengeance against the Hamato Clan. By the final season, after losing his humanity through mutation, Shredder views Karai as nothing more than a weapon that has outlived its usefulness.

[Drose18]

Sounds like the IDW Deviations comic is basically the answer to this

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Does Splinter exist in this universe?

[victory_angel]

Lets say he does.

[ToTheNines]

Great write up, VA. You should have a blog or something.

I think the most interesting picture you painted was Donnie. I could see him being the (only?) one to eventually turn on Shredder. Maybe him meeting April by chance would be what pushes him to turn away from crime.

I do wonder, what makes you say he had a “pacifistic nature”? I would say he was just as ready to go as the next turtle, and he was always preparing ways to combat The Kraang and The Foot.

Random additional thought: it’s fun to imagine Splinter and Miwa vs. Shredder and his turtles.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Great write up, VA. You should have a blog or something.

I think the most interesting picture you painted was Donnie. I could see him being the (only?) one to eventually turn on Shredder. Maybe him meeting April by chance would be what pushes him to turn away from crime.

I do wonder, what makes you say he had a “pacifistic nature”? I would say he was just as ready to go as the next turtle, and he was always preparing ways to combat The Kraang and The Foot.

Random additional thought: it’s fun to imagine Splinter and Miwa vs. Shredder and his turtles.

Having a pacifist nature doesn’t mean you avoid fighting at all costs or refuse to take action. It means that while you’ll do what needs to be done, you prioritize finding peaceful solutions whenever possible. If a situation can be resolved without resorting to violence, that is the preferable path.

Take, for example, the episodes involving the Pulverizer and Bigfoot.

In the first Pulverizer episode, Donatello attempts to dissuade Timothy from his delusional quest to become a hero. However, when it becomes clear that Timothy is determined to play hero regardless of what Donnie says, he takes a pragmatic approach. Donnie figures that teaching him some basic skills will at least give him a chance to defend himself.

In the Pulverizer’s second appearance, Donnie is the only one advocating to get Timothy out of the Foot Clan. He sees the danger Timothy is putting himself in and wants to protect him. However, his brothers dismiss his concerns because they value the tactical advantage of having someone feeding them information on Shredder’s plans. This creates a moral conflict, as Donnie sees Timothy as an innocent caught in a dangerous game, while his brothers focus on the strategic benefit.

Later, when the Pulverizer is mutated and becomes a threat, Donnie’s actions reveal his underlying compassion. Even as he tampers with a vial of mutagen to stop him, Donnie is heard yelling, "No, Timothy, don’t drink it!" It’s clear he’s trying to reach whatever part of Timothy is still human, hoping to save him from himself. After everything is over, Donnie has no sense of victory, only regret and sorrow for what happened.

In the Bigfoot episode, when the turtles are attacked, Donnie is the first to notice that Bigfoot is already injured. He realizes she is attacking out of fear, not hostility. Acting on this observation, he stops his brothers from continuing their assault. This moment underscores Donnie’s ability to see beyond the immediate conflict and seek understanding, even in the heat of battle.

Another moment that highlights Donnie’s nature and the deeper lessons within the series is the "weapon-switching" sequence. When the turtles are forced to swap weapons, Donnie ends up with Raph’s sai. While Donnie often complains about his own weapon—a simple bo staff—he appears noticeably uncomfortable wielding the sai. Some viewers criticize this scene, but it holds significant importance.

In The Book of Five Rings, Musashi Miyamoto emphasizes the importance of mastering multiple weapons. Musashi believed that relying solely on one weapon limits a warrior’s adaptability. By training with various weapons, a fighter becomes more versatile, capable of responding to different scenarios—whether fighting multiple opponents or facing someone with a larger or more specialized weapon. Musashi specifically advocated for using a long sword (katana) in one hand and a short sword (wakizashi) in the other, as this approach allowed for simultaneous offense and defense.

The weapon-switching moment, therefore, serves as a lesson for the turtles to expand their skills and adapt to new challenges. Splinter doesn’t explicitly instruct them to switch weapons, likely because he expects them to come to this realization on their own. When he later takes their weapons away as punishment for disobedience, it’s another lesson in adaptability—forcing them to rely on their environment and creativity to defend themselves.

[ToTheNines]

Without getting hung up on specific definitions, I certainly see what you're saying and it makes sense.

How would you envision this alternate universe playing out? The turtles kill Splinter? Or they ultimately turn on Shredder?