Do the Mirage Comics Work for New Readers in 2016? - Page 2

Chabrendeki · 03-31-2016, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monte Williams

I wish IDW would publish a secondary archive of the Mirage material. Low-grade paper, black and white, any other budgetary cutbacks necessary; I am interested in reading these old stories, but when they're only available (or so it seems to me, anyway) in deluxe, high-end tomes that reprint only four or five issues each, I get discouraged. I don't want to put together a literary museum, I just wanna read some stories. Hell, unless I am mistaken, even the Comixology versions of the Mirage are pricey!

The Ultimate Collection collects 7-8 40 pages issues per volume... They cost approx. the double as a 4-issue TPB, so they are cheap in comparison and are worth every cent.

Monte Williams · 03-31-2016, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mewzard

Turtles Forever actually ended up being what got me to check out the Mirage books out of curiosity.

Ah, Turtles Forever. I know it isn't perfect, but has there ever been a more delightful and unlikely bit of fan service? In any medium? I should revisit it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mewzard

1. Can they enjoy a more grim/serious take on the Turtles?
2. Can they enjoy or at least accept the art that comes with it?

I can handle bleakness, provided there is insight and characterization to back it up.

As for the art, I will probably be more bothered by the many changes in style rather than the low quality of some of the art.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mewzard

Honestly, I recommend going from the beginning. Not every issue's a winner, but a lot of them are enjoyable, and it gives you an appreciation of how far they go when you do make it further into the story.

I will definitely read the entire series from the beginning if I like the first taste, but I stand by the Buffy model; sample the series at its best, and then consume the whole thing chronologically if you liked that sample taste.

Moving on...

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Buy the first 5 Ultimate Collections that IDW put out, they collect the most important and best Mirage issues.

Those are the absolute best Mirage comics worth reading, so make sure you get those before anything else.

Are those the ones that only collect a handful of issues each? 'Cause I was excited for them until I learned that each contains only four or five issues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nortock Diab

[COLOR="Lime"]I started reading and collecting Mirage comics in late 2013 (not exactly 2016

).

I suppose I can allow a passage of three years.

Thank you, bjaxx, for the recommendations. And for the links!

*myconius* · 03-31-2016, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monte Williams

To what extent are the Mirage comics inviting and convincing for a new reader in 2016?

I started reading the modern IDW series this month. I'm on the fourth volume right now. I like it well enough, but I don't know that I would enjoy it without the benefit of my thirty years of TMNT fandom.

Where the original Mirage comics are concerned, I only ever read the first issue or three, and that was many years ago. It didn't do a lot for me at the time, but I've always assumed the first few issues are not the best.

Whatever the case, while it's almost impossible for most geeks and fans and enthusiasts of any given property to set aside their nostalgia and take an objective look at something they love, I want to ask:

If an adult fan of the Ninja Turtles property tried reading the classic Mirage comics for the first time today, without the benefit of nostalgia... how good do you suspect those comics would seem to the reader?

Thank you in advance for your input.

i think the level of attraction for the very first series of Mirage Tmnt comics was the art!!

the stories had some silliness and fun mixed in with the darkness, violence and action, though i think muck of those jokes are pretty dated due to references and will go over most new reader's heads? "i pity the man"

but from and artistic standpoint the early issues are absolutely breathtaking!

the level of craftsmanship that went into them really needs to be seen by any new fan.

Monte Williams · 03-31-2016, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shedder

...as well as the action figures which were the real driving force.

The action figures remain the primary focus of my TMNT fandom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Mirage is not only what started TMNT, it's main themes and heart is what TMNT always SHOULD be... I say that they have a fundamental misunderstanding of what TMNT was and should be.

I hope I enjoy the Mirage comics, and I agree that no one should dismiss them, but I disagree with the suggestion that there should only be one take on the franchise. After all, if it hadn't been for those absurd, poorly animated '80s cartoons, this forum would not exist, and the comics would be a strange, obscure footnote.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles has had so many iterations, each of which is someone's favorite. No iconic character or series should ever be too beholden to its earliest stories. If they were, Batman would be gunning people down, Superman wouldn't fly, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Mirage has always had a slower pace. It's more "show" than "tell," which is almost the exact opposite of the IDW run.

Yeah, this is actually a powerful endorsement, for me. I enjoy the IDW series for what it is, but it's quite rushed and clunky.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chabrendeki

The Ultimate Collection collects 7-8 40 pages issues per volume... They cost approx. the double as a 4-issue TPB, so they are cheap in comparison and are worth every cent.

Oh! Thank you for clarifying. I'll look into those!

Monte Williams · 03-31-2016, 10:57 AM

Now that Chabrendeki has schooled me on the content of the Ultimate Collections (now that I know just how much content each book includes, in other words; now that I know they're a pretty great value), I am definitely going to pursue them.

But I have a follow-up question, if you'll indulge me.

http://www.amazon.com/Teenage-Mutant...+tmnt+ultimate

I see on Amazon that the Comixology version of the first Ultimate collection is only $10. For over 300 pages! Wow!

Now, I'm no Luddite, but for whatever reason, I can't get into reading ebooks. I bought a kindle a few years ago, but ended up giving it to one of my students. I much prefer reading novels in printed form. (I'm not arguing that they are superior in this form; it's simply what I prefer.)

I naturally assumed that this print bias would extend to comic books (which I almost never read anymore in any form, whatever the case).

However, I started reading the IDW series via Comixology, and was stunned to find that I love reading comic books in digital format. Love it. Like, I don''t foresee going back to print.

I love the navigation tool; I can blow it up to full screen and scroll through a panel at a time, which you'd think would be tiresome, but man, it helps the pacing and delivery so much. No more turning the page and spoiling a revelation a few panels too soon. Everything has more impact. It's much more immersive. Digital comics for the win!

(The fact that they're so much cheaper? Just icing on the cake).

So at long last, my follow-up question:

Is there any particularly compelling reason why this would not be the smart route to take for the Mirage comics?

I get that many of you are big fans of the artwork, which presumably fares much better on glossy, oversized pages than on my laptop screen. But I have always been more concerned with the story in a given comic rather than the art, so that's not really relevant for me.

If any person here can show cause why this man and this $10 300-page digital comic should not be joined in the happy reading equivalent of holy matrimony, speak now or forever hold your peace.

*CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy* · 03-31-2016, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monte Williams

I hope I enjoy the Mirage comics, and I agree that no one should dismiss them, but I disagree with the suggestion that there should only be one take on the franchise. After all, if it hadn't been for those absurd, poorly animated '80s cartoons, this forum would not exist, and the comics would be a strange, obscure footnote.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles has had so many iterations, each of which is someone's favorite. No iconic character or series should ever be too beholden to its earliest stories. If they were, Batman would be gunning people down, Superman wouldn't fly, etc.

No no no, I wasn't saying there should be only one take on TMNT; I'm saying that the closer new takes hold to the heart and themes of Mirage TMNT, the better it is.

Chabrendeki · 03-31-2016, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monte Williams

No iconic character or series should ever be too beholden to its earliest stories. If they were, Batman would be gunning people down, Superman wouldn't fly, etc.

The Mirage series is not just the earliest iteration.

Vol. 1 and 2 ran 1984-1995, and ended with the City at War story arc. The Mirage comic started before but ran than then paralel to the OT (1987-1996), or to the Archie comics (1988-1995).

Monte Williams · 03-31-2016, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

No no no, I wasn't saying there should be only one take on TMNT; I'm saying that the closer new takes hold to the heart and themes of Mirage TMNT, the better it is.

I'd suggest that "it's main themes and heart is what TMNT always SHOULD be" and "they have a fundamental misunderstanding of what TMNT was and should be" is close to suggesting that your preferred take on the franchise is the only valid one, but perhaps I am simply misreading your passion.

*plastroncafe* · 03-31-2016, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monte Williams

Is there any particularly compelling reason why this would not be the smart route to take for the Mirage comics?

I get that many of you are big fans of the artwork, which presumably fares much better on glossy, oversized pages than on my laptop screen. But I have always been more concerned with the story in a given comic rather than the art, so that's not really relevant for me.

If any person here can show cause why this man and this $10 300-page digital comic should not be joined in the happy reading equivalent of holy matrimony, speak now or forever hold your peace.

Jump on that deal.
JUMP ON IT!

If you like the stories enough to go and seek out the original floppies, then all the better. (Mirage on glossy paper? Make mine newsprint!)

Monte Williams · 03-31-2016, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Jump on that deal.
JUMP ON IT!

Will do!

Quote:

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

If you like the stories enough to go and seek out the original floppies, then all the better.

I abandoned floppies in the late '90s. Graphic novels and trade paperbacks for the win. I don't care for all the organizational efforts required to read floppies.

Chabrendeki · 03-31-2016, 11:08 AM

Just a note: The printed Ultimate Collection has no glossy paper... it's on a high quality thick bookpaper.

Monte Williams · 03-31-2016, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chabrendeki

Just a note: The printed Ultimate Collection has no glossy paper... it's on a high quality thick bookpaper.

My bad. Dumb assumption on my part.

*CyberCubed* · 03-31-2016, 11:36 AM

Buy the first 5 Ultimate Collections. If you like those, the rest of the Mirage comics have been reprinted under the "Classics" tpb line from IDW, as well as the "Tales of the TMNT" TPB line.

Monte Williams · 03-31-2016, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Buy the first 5 Ultimate Collections. If you like those, the rest of the Mirage comics have been reprinted under the "Classics" tpb line from IDW, as well as the "Tales of the TMNT" TPB line.

Excellent, thanks for the tip!

Mewzard · 03-31-2016, 12:37 PM

Once you make it past volume 3 of the Ultimate Collection hardcovers, you should read IDW's first two trades of Tales of the TMNT. They introduce some characters who later appeared in volumes 4 and 5 of the Ultimate Collection.

There's also Volume 6 of the Ultimate Collection if you want a collection of assorted short stories released throughout the Volume 1 run for the Mirage Comics.

Cryomancer · 03-31-2016, 01:06 PM

I feel like a lot of the things I like about Mirage are either hard to put into words, or hard to put into non-spoilers. I guess the main thing is the fact that it's very much a comic about a family living it's lifetime and all the problems that come along with that, and also them being a weirdness magnet in general. Mirage is a truly "adult" and "mature" comic in that sense. Not because it's violent or they swear a little, but because it deals with stuff like brothers drifting apart and living in shaky temporary housing situations and so on.

*CyberCubed* · 03-31-2016, 02:31 PM

What's also interesting about Mirage is that...there's no real recurring villains. Almost all the villains are dealt with in their first or second appearances, or become allies with the Turtles. Savanti Romero was the only recurring villain in the Mirage universe.

*Powder* · 03-31-2016, 02:41 PM

Baxter's sorta recurring. I mean, he & Shredder respectively have like, what, 3-4 different visits, yeah? Triceratons make a return as well. But yeah, overall, none of them bounce back & forth in the way that cartoon villains do.

*CyberCubed* · 03-31-2016, 02:44 PM

Technically Baxter only has two times he is a villain to the Turtles, issue #2 and then Volume 2. His appearance in Volume 4 is nothing more than a cameo and Donatello immediately kills him.

Unless there's some other appearance of his I've forgotten about from Tales, but I don't think there was.

*Andrew NDB* · 03-31-2016, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monte Williams

and the comics would be a strange, obscure footnote.

Even if true, at least it would still have its dignity.

03-31-2016, 10:57 AM	#25
Monte Williams Stone Warrior Join Date: May 2008 Location: Twin Falls, Idaho Posts: 825	Now that Chabrendeki has schooled me on the content of the Ultimate Collections (now that I know just how much content each book includes, in other words; now that I know they're a pretty great value), I am definitely going to pursue them. But I have a follow-up question, if you'll indulge me. http://www.amazon.com/Teenage-Mutant...+tmnt+ultimate I see on Amazon that the Comixology version of the first Ultimate collection is only $10. For over 300 pages! Wow! Now, I'm no Luddite, but for whatever reason, I can't get into reading ebooks. I bought a kindle a few years ago, but ended up giving it to one of my students. I much prefer reading novels in printed form. (I'm not arguing that they are superior in this form; it's simply what I prefer.) I naturally assumed that this print bias would extend to comic books (which I almost never read anymore in any form, whatever the case). However, I started reading the IDW series via Comixology, and was stunned to find that I love reading comic books in digital format. Love it. Like, I don''t foresee going back to print. I love the navigation tool; I can blow it up to full screen and scroll through a panel at a time, which you'd think would be tiresome, but man, it helps the pacing and delivery so much. No more turning the page and spoiling a revelation a few panels too soon. Everything has more impact. It's much more immersive. Digital comics for the win! (The fact that they're so much cheaper? Just icing on the cake). So at long last, my follow-up question: Is there any particularly compelling reason why this would not be the smart route to take for the Mirage comics? I get that many of you are big fans of the artwork, which presumably fares much better on glossy, oversized pages than on my laptop screen. But I have always been more concerned with the story in a given comic rather than the art, so that's not really relevant for me. If any person here can show cause why this man and this $10 300-page digital comic should not be joined in the happy reading equivalent of holy matrimony, speak now or forever hold your peace. __________________

03-31-2016, 11:08 AM	#31
Chabrendeki Hench Mutant Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Budapest, Hungary Posts: 265	Just a note: The printed Ultimate Collection has no glossy paper... it's on a high quality thick bookpaper. __________________

03-31-2016, 11:36 AM	#33
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 41,056	Buy the first 5 Ultimate Collections. If you like those, the rest of the Mirage comics have been reprinted under the "Classics" tpb line from IDW, as well as the "Tales of the TMNT" TPB line. Last edited by CyberCubed; 03-31-2016 at 11:45 AM.

03-31-2016, 12:37 PM	#35
Mewzard Hench Mutant Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 255	Once you make it past volume 3 of the Ultimate Collection hardcovers, you should read IDW's first two trades of Tales of the TMNT. They introduce some characters who later appeared in volumes 4 and 5 of the Ultimate Collection. There's also Volume 6 of the Ultimate Collection if you want a collection of assorted short stories released throughout the Volume 1 run for the Mirage Comics. Last edited by Mewzard; 03-31-2016 at 12:52 PM.

03-31-2016, 01:06 PM	#36
Cryomancer Mad Scientist Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,090	I feel like a lot of the things I like about Mirage are either hard to put into words, or hard to put into non-spoilers. I guess the main thing is the fact that it's very much a comic about a family living it's lifetime and all the problems that come along with that, and also them being a weirdness magnet in general. Mirage is a truly "adult" and "mature" comic in that sense. Not because it's violent or they swear a little, but because it deals with stuff like brothers drifting apart and living in shaky temporary housing situations and so on. __________________ Final Boss of translation group Opentrain. We do videogame comics and TMNT stuff. http://opentrain.theyear199x.org/

03-31-2016, 02:31 PM	#37
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 41,056	What's also interesting about Mirage is that...there's no real recurring villains. Almost all the villains are dealt with in their first or second appearances, or become allies with the Turtles. Savanti Romero was the only recurring villain in the Mirage universe.

03-31-2016, 02:41 PM	#38
Powder So tired of this place Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shell Ri La Posts: 26,809	Baxter's sorta recurring. I mean, he & Shredder respectively have like, what, 3-4 different visits, yeah? Triceratons make a return as well. But yeah, overall, none of them bounce back & forth in the way that cartoon villains do. __________________ I'm convinced that none of you have ever experienced joy

03-31-2016, 02:44 PM	#39
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 41,056	Technically Baxter only has two times he is a villain to the Turtles, issue #2 and then Volume 2. His appearance in Volume 4 is nothing more than a cameo and Donatello immediately kills him. Unless there's some other appearance of his I've forgotten about from Tales, but I don't think there was.