TMNT #92 Preview and Discussion

[ChosenOne]

One thing that bothers me about the negotiations upon rereading the issue:

Spoiler:

How come Splinter never brought up the Foot Clan's (shaky) alliance with the EPF? Let's assume Karai didn't care about the kids and everything went swimmingly, and she's instated as the leader. Then Bishop comes knocking, asking for some favor, and finds a new face on the throne with five (from his point of view) mutants at her beck and call, including the two most dangerous ones in existence... A war was always coming, one way or another. Though it would've been out of character for Splinter, the idea of leaving Karai with a poisoned gift in the form of the EPF is intriguing.

And the thing I'd love the most, given the tragic irony of it all? Is if Splinter ends up having to go against his family to protect the kids he promised his family he would keep safe.

Oh crap, it's gonna be a long eight months.

I feel like that probably WAS brought up, but it wasn't mentioned in the issue. We didn't see most of their negotiations. I imagine that the answer wasn't relevant enough to take up space in the issue, or it was TOO relevant and, as such, the writers didn't want to reveal it just yet as they couldn't give it enough spotlight between all of the things going on.

[shredder orokusaki]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

One thing that bothers me about the negotiations upon rereading the issue:

Spoiler:

How come Splinter never brought up the Foot Clan's (shaky) alliance with the EPF? Let's assume Karai didn't care about the kids and everything went swimmingly, and she's instated as the leader. Then Bishop comes knocking, asking for some favor, and finds a new face on the throne with five (from his point of view) mutants at her beck and call, including the two most dangerous ones in existence... A war was always coming, one way or another. Though it would've been out of character for Splinter, the idea of leaving Karai with a poisoned gift in the form of the EPF is intriguing.

And the thing I'd love the most, given the tragic irony of it all? Is if Splinter ends up having to go against his family to protect the kids he promised his family he would keep safe.

Oh crap, it's gonna be a long eight months.

Eight months? Splinter will be dead much sooner! Iam Returning soon to kill him and conquer New York. Then i will cut Stockman head and put his brain in a jar!

[CyberCubed]

The best thing about this arc is Splinter's whole character arc. His whole cold indifference to his sons and raising the Foot Clan has diminished and he's going back to his old self, but it happened gradually to the point where it's believeable and not a complete 180. Splinter is the voice of reason again and I liked that.

Overall though besides Karai going crazy, not much else seemed to change.. April is an ally, Casey is an ally, Jennika is an ally, Angel/Alopex are allies, Old Hob and the Mutanimals are allies (unless Old Hob does something stupid), Prof. Llija and his wife are allies, the Foot Clan and Purple Dragons are controlled by the good guys now, etc.

As far as we can tell Baxter doesn't seem to be up to anything bad in particular either, so he might very well be an ally too. So besides Bishop/Metalhead being the main antagonists now along with Karai, and the looming threat of the Pantheon, there's not much status quo that changed.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The best thing about this arc is Splinter's whole character arc. His whole cold indifference to his sons and raising the Foot Clan has diminished and he's going back to his old self, but it happened gradually to the point where it's believeable and not a complete 180. Splinter is the voice of reason again and I liked that.

Overall though besides Karai going crazy, not much else seemed to change.. April is an ally, Casey is an ally, Jennika is an ally, Angel/Alopex are allies, Old Hob and the Mutanimals are allies (unless Old Hob does something stupid), Prof. Llija and his wife are allies, the Foot Clan and Purple Dragons are controlled by the good guys now, etc.

As far as we can tell Baxter doesn't seem to be up to anything bad in particular either, so he might very well be an ally too. So besides Bishop/Metalhead being the main antagonists now along with Karai, and the looming threat of the Pantheon, there's not much status quo that changed.

I agree entirely with the Splinter thing, as I already made clear with my prior comment. However, I don't agree about the status quo not changing up a lot. All of these major players have just been introduced. True, it seems like the Mutanimals and Stockman are allies, or at worst, inconveniences, but the point of a story is to subvert expectations. The fact that you can come to the conclusion that that's exactly how things're going to play out, with no major twists or turns, should be a dead giveaway that that's not how it'll play out. If everything just happened in the way everyone expects it, without any surprises, the story would NEVER move forward. Want proof? Look at this very issue.

The Mutanimals are on the verge of splitting in half and Hob has a major Ace up his sleeve. I will remind you all that the storyline that is meant to directly set this one up is Battle Lines. You know, the story that left the biggest impact on Hob. I genuinely can't imagine them starting the whole thing with him going nuts and then just having him be an ally. Same for Stockman. There's absolutely no way the story will play out so obviously.

The point of the prelude to City at War isn't for everything to break loose at once. The actual story hasn't even begun. The point was to set up all of the major players; Clan Hamato, Splinter's Foot and the Purple Dragons still working together, Karai's Foot declaring war, Metalhead joining up with the EPF, the Mutanimals being at the verge of falling apart and Stockman running for mayor. The status quo has changed, and it has changed majorly, but City at War is when we'll see the actual effects of this change.

[Utrommaniac]

Ah...yeah, that'll do it.

Everything's going to blow up pretty big at #100.


I'm gonna place my bet on Splinter dying then. Heaven KNOWS what's going to happen to Karai at this point, but the shadows of Bad Things are starting to climb.

I'm gonna go one step further and guess the exact issue when Splinter is gonna die - it's gonna be #96. Mark your calendars. Screenshot this. Or maybe don't because I might be wrong so I'll just be the only one to screenshot it and then use it for bragging rights if I'm right, and if I'm not we shall never speak of it again.

[CyberCubed]

Hm, I also forgot Karai recruited Bebop/Rocksteady again at the end of their mini, I wonder when she'll "debut" them back in New York. She basically has 5 mutant like creatures with her, the woman, and maybe her own clan.

[ChosenOne]

If Free Comic Book Day is in May, and the FCBD issue is released then, the events it intersects with should take place in the issue released around the same time. So... #94? Which means Karai is going after Jennika first, or tries to take out Splinter but gets his chunin instead when she intervenes somehow.

We have the Turtles racing to get Jennika to the hospital and the issue is called "Casualty of War", so it's not looking too good for her right now.

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

If Free Comic Book Day is in May, and the FCBD issue is released then, the events it intersects with should take place in the issue released around the same time. So... #94? Which means Karai is going after Jennika first, or tries to take out Splinter but gets his chunin instead when she intervenes somehow.

We have the Turtles racing to get Jennika to the hospital and the issue is called "Casualty of War", so it's not looking too good for her right now.

I purposefully didn't mention this because it's spoilery but it's a key element we need to keep in mind when discussing City at War. Though it seems like the status quo isn't changing up, we know for a fact that all Hell is about to break loose. This one death can, and absolutely will make the Foot Clan, the Purple Dragons and possibly even the Hamato Clan go absolutely nuclear.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Igglet

I purposefully didn't mention this because it's spoilery but it's a key element we need to keep in mind when discussing City at War. Though it seems like the status quo isn't changing up, we know for a fact that all Hell is about to break loose. This one death can, and absolutely will make the Foot Clan, the Purple Dragons and possibly even the Hamato Clan go absolutely nuclear.

My own personal problem with #92, and it's absolutely my fault that it even exists, is that I was expecting the issue to end with Jennika being rushed to the hospital for whatever reason while chased by Karai's posse. Like a fight breaking out or Bishop popping up or something. I guess things would've been more surprising, in a good way, if I hadn't read that preview. Oh, well... The arc hasn't even started per se yet, I'm sure there's plenty more thrills still to come.

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

My own personal problem with #92, and it's absolutely my fault that it even exists, is that I was expecting the issue to end with Jennika being rushed to the hospital for whatever reason while chased by Karai's posse. Like a fight breaking out or Bishop popping up or something. I guess things would've been more surprising, in a good way, if I hadn't read that preview. Oh, well... The arc hasn't even started per se yet, I'm sure there's plenty more thrills still to come.

Yeah, but I wouldn't put that on the issue itself, I doubt the people involved with the comic had any say in that. I'm sure none of them enjoy their story being spoiled months prior. Still, I understand the disappointment, though I personally always focus on the execution rather than the actual idea. I didn't know how this would go down and the fact that they managed to tie this back to Splinter and the kids was brilliant.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Igglet

Yeah, but I wouldn't put that on the issue itself, I doubt the people involved with the comic had any say in that. I'm sure none of them enjoy their story being spoiled months prior. Still, I understand the disappointment, though I personally always focus on the execution rather than the actual idea. I didn't know how this would go down and the fact that they managed to tie this back to Splinter and the kids was brilliant.

It was a great twist, I'll give Tom Waltz that! I just don't like it. The orphan kids were fine for Michelangelo's one-and-done Macro issue, but that was about as far as I wanted to see the Foot Clan Home for Lost Boys and Girls.

[Utrommaniac]

I mean...it gives the kids a little more purpose than being background decoration?

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

It was a great twist, I'll give Tom Waltz that! I just don't like it. The orphan kids were fine for Michelangelo's one-and-done Macro issue, but that was about as far as I wanted to see the Foot Clan Home for Lost Boys and Girls.

Fair enough, but the kids themselves weren't the real focus here. Honestly, I don't really care if little Billy peed his pants during the Mikey vs. Splinter fight or not. You weren't supposed to go "Oh no, not the children!" Instead, the twist put emphasis on Splinter's character and his growth. He started conflict over wanting to protect them from Karai in the same way that Mikey started conflict over wanting to protect them from HIM. This was a HUGE step for Splinter, and while it wasn't necessarily the most bombastic thing they could've gone with, it was just an absolutely amazing way to utilize characters.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Igglet

Yeah, but I wouldn't put that on the issue itself, I doubt the people involved with the comic had any say in that. I'm sure none of them enjoy their story being spoiled months prior. Still, I understand the disappointment, though I personally always focus on the execution rather than the actual idea. I didn't know how this would go down and the fact that they managed to tie this back to Splinter and the kids was brilliant.

Oh, no, it's totally my fault. If I didn't go around rooting through every single crumb of even remotely spoilery material I can find, this wouldn't have happened. But even without the preview, the sheer hype we experienced these past few weeks ensured the "big moment" in this issue fell just the tiiiniest bit flat. I really don't give a damn about the kids, to be honest, but ultimately it's all on me 'cause I can't expect to project that onto the characters.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Igglet

Fair enough, but the kids themselves weren't the real focus here. Honestly, I don't really care if little Billy peed his pants during the Mikey vs. Splinter fight or not. You weren't supposed to go "Oh no, not the children!" Instead, the twist put emphasis on Splinter's character and his growth. He started conflict over wanting to protect them from Karai in the same way that Mikey started conflict over wanting to protect them from HIM. This was a HUGE step for Splinter, and while it wasn't necessarily the most bombastic thing they could've gone with, it was just an absolutely amazing way to utilize characters.

Hmm... I hadn't considered that. Thank you for the perspective.

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

Oh, no, it's totally my fault. If I didn't go around rooting through every single crumb of even remotely spoilery material I can find, this wouldn't have happened. But even without the preview, the sheer hype we experienced these past few weeks ensured the "big moment" in this issue fell just the tiiiniest bit flat. I really don't give a damn about the kids, to be honest, but ultimately it's all on me 'cause I can't expect to project that onto the characters.

Ah yeah, I get you on that first part, I'm subscribed to a Marvel Studios Spoilers subreddit and check it regularly despite the fact that I don't want to spoil Endgame for myself, I'm in the same situation here.

However, I disagree with the latter part. I'm repeating myself here, but I would say that anything else would fail to have even slightly as much emotional impact. They could have made it more dramatic, put someone we care about at stake, but that would feel more like something for shock, ultimately shallow if you look underneath the surface and only meant to push the plot forward, while this adds development to Splinter that completely changes the story going forward.

EDIT: WOOOOOOOPS, didn't realize you responded already. My bad, lol. And you're welcome, I'm very glad I managed to change someone's mind or offer a different perspective!

[Utrommaniac]

That's a really good point though. He actually learned from Michelangelo in that situation.

And actually shows Splinter's capacity to be different from all the other Bad Fathers in this series, in that he does have the ability to not only change his mind and take real advise from his sons, but act on that advise. He was able to put his own pride aside and listen to the concerns being addressed to him.


And yeah, sure, Hun put the booze away, but he still continued to be a horrible person afterwards.

Quanin's belligerence in refusing to put a stop to intergalactic war pretty much cost everything in the name of his own pride. Something Splinter would probably have subjected himself to (granted, in not as extreme a capacity), if he wasn't the type to take a few steps back and really think about the risks he was posing on himself and others - especially innocents like the orphans.


Of course Splinter has made mistakes. What makes him different is that he can examine his mistakes and realize he's made them before it's too late.

[ChosenOne]

Whatever happens to Jennika could make Splinter stray from that path and slide back into extremism, though. This issue's letters section seemed particularly ominous in that regard.