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Old 02-24-2019, 04:28 AM   #41
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The horse crap line made me laugh but ya I guess they could have made a different character.

This has been called a remake but also part 2. I’d prefer a sequel. Either way I hope she has a bigger part.
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Old 02-24-2019, 04:38 AM   #42
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A remake would be flat-out bizarre. Even a sequel this many years later is a bit bizarre.

The original was such a perfect storm, I'm not at all sure how a new one might do. But I can't see it succeeding at the same level. Lebron was never the "force" in the larger culture that Jordan was, and basketball isn't the phenomenon it was in 1996, either. It helped that it was a passable kids' movie, but there were so many other cultural factors in play that it's hard to imagine the new one having even half of the impact.

For one thing, I think they're aiming for an entirely different audience: The original was clearly aimed at kids, while this one is a Hipster Nostalgia piece. Nobody under 30 is likely to care a lot, because "Looney Tunes" doesn't mean anything to anyone younger than that anymore. An entire generation has come up not giving two sh*ts about Bugs Bunny, which is tragic but still the truth. The whole temperature is different. It's weird.

I'm curious to see what happens, because I do like the original just fine for what it is - I just objectively recognize that it simply isn't great outside of nostalgia - but I'll be very surprised if it does extremely well. It feels more than a little desperate, and times have changed.
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Old 02-24-2019, 04:54 AM   #43
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I think it’ll do fine. I’m guessing you don’t watch the NBA from one of your previous posts. I do. It’s the only sport I watch.

Lebron is definitely popular but does have a lot of naysayers too. Just different things. You would have had to watch the past 10 seasons or so understand.

There’s jokes going around about Bugs Bunny and characters getting traded.

Looney Tunes are not massively popular but they’re famous enough. I’m sure kids watch reruns of the classics and other versions that have come along.
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Old 02-24-2019, 05:15 AM   #44
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I don't follow sports and never did, but I do loosely follow culture. Perhaps basketball fans put Lebron in the same category as Jordan, but nobody else does. Just like John Cena may be technically a more popular "wrestling star" than Hulk Hogan was, if you measure by action figures and T-shirt sales, but as far as global popularity and impact on the larger culture it's still no contest. Huge parts of the world have no idea who John Cena even is, or Stone Cold, but they know Hulk Hogan. That will still be the case in another 30 years. Cena is a huge star to wrestling fans, but he's comparatively a "nobody". Going from MJ to Lebron is the same thing.

There's the lens that fans of a sport (or any "thing") see things through, and there's the larger cultural lens. And it can get blurry when you go from one lens to another. But make no mistake, Lebron James isn't half the "draw" Michael Jordan is or was, and the sport itself definitely isn't as popular as it was 25 years ago, when everybody at the very least owned a Bulls hat, even if they'd never watched a single game, because it was a status symbol. Basketball is still popular, obviously, but that level of cultural saturation has long since passed. UFC seems to be the new "thing", the one that even people who don't follow nonetheless have an opinion on and buy merch of. In another 20 years it'll be something else. That's just how it cycles.

I don't even hold Jordan to any sort of high esteem or anything; I think he was good at his job, but in general based on everything I've heard he seems like a rotten, extremely flawed human being who happened to be very good at exactly one thing, and he was extremely successful at it. We know he can't play baseball, and thanks to Space Jam we know for SURE that he can't act. But he did well with his one skill, and I give him credit for it. Otherwise, "F*ck him" is more or less my general opinion of Michael Jordan.

But I wanted to make it clear I'm not a "fan" of his. Just that I recognize that his status in the larger culture is far loftier than that of Lebron James, and that status was a HUGE part of why the first film is such a phenomenon. I don't think it's repeatable just by copying the same formula and plugging in whoever the current "Top Guy" is. That's a "Going from 'Hulkamania' to the Lex Express" type situation; as we all know (or should), that didn't take at all. And it certainly wasn't from a lack of sincere effort on the part of everyone involved. It just was never gonna work because it was 1993 and not 1984. You can't just update the ingredients and bake the same exact cake. It's not gonna be the same, and independent of that, tastes also change.

I kinda feel like this movie is going to reinforce that lesson the hard way, is all. I mean, it probably won't be terrible, but I foresee a lot of "Eh."
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Old 02-24-2019, 05:38 AM   #45
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Oh no Lebron is definitely not in the same cultural status as Jordan was. I agree with that. That’s one of the many topics of jokes surrounding him. His legacy and how he’s portrayed himself.

I’m not a fan of his either. There’s times I rooted for him based on the situation but that’s it. I’m ok with him being in the movie. He’s still a pretty big sports figure right now. That’s why I think it’ll do fine. And that Looney Tunes are iconic characters.
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Old 02-24-2019, 05:52 AM   #46
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But are they "iconic" enough in 2019-2020 to sell a motion picture - a REAL one, not a Netflix "movie" or something - to anyone under the age of 30 and actually draw a dime? THAT is my question. I know the collective, royal "We" all appreciate Space Jam for what it is, but "Back In Action" came out 5 minutes later and didn't draw a dime, and the entire franchise has been a smoking wreck ever since.

People of any age react to the original animated shorts even today because they are, indeed, timeless classics. But Space Jam is the polar opposite, a product of its time that only happened because of a very specific cultural climate and a unique set of circumstances, that many people now will agree isn't as much of a movie as it is a commercial, both for the NBA and the larger Looney Tunes brand. It's not timeless, it's extremely dated from every angle. As for "classic", well... it was an important part of many people's childhoods, for sure, but that doesn't quit earn the definition in and of itself. It's a passable kids movie that most adults probably won't hate. That's the limit.

I predict it'll do "fine" but not great, and the reviews... well, we can go ahead and write them now, for all that's worth. I think fans of the original will have a fun night out but it'll probably lose money. Because again, ain't nobody under 30 gonna care, and there's only so many hipsters willing to spend theater money on a kids movie, nostalgia fuzzies be damned.

We can assume no R. Kelly this time; I hear he's kinda busy at the moment.
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Old 02-24-2019, 06:09 AM   #47
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Looney Tunes is a smoking wreck? I know it’s not “in” at the moment and hasn’t really been mainstream since I guess Space Jam but it seems to have done ok. The cartoon series keep getting made and updated.

Like I said I’m sure kids watch reruns. That’s how I watched them back on Nick.

I think parents will take kids to this. Based on sports, Looney Tunes or both. Plus whoever grew up with the first. Probably won’t be a massive blockbuster hit but it’ll do alright I think.
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Old 02-24-2019, 06:45 AM   #48
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They do likely watch reruns of the original skits. As I've said, that's literally ALL anyone cares about insofar as "Looney Tunes"; skits from 50-80 years ago, now. THOSE things still get a reaction, but meanwhile, they've tried a half-dozen failed reboots in the last 15+ years and STILL can't make anyone care about anything happening Here and Now.

Those "updated" series are attempts to get people to care. And they don't work. Everything from "Loonatics Unleashed" to "Baby Looney Tunes" to "The New Looney Tunes Show" to the ones I know I'm missing were all positively reeking of desperation, and by any objective standard, they were all a complete failure. How long did they last? How fondly are they remembered? What was the cultural impact? Not long, not well, and ZERO, would be the answers; thus, my "smoking wreck" comment.

Obviously new products come out and obviously they make some coin from it. But they can't claim that the Looney Tunes brand in 2019 means ANYTHING except for nostalgia. And that's not what they want; they want it to be "hip" like it used to be. They've tried everything, failed everything, so now they go back to the ONE thing in semi-recent years that people didn't all turn up their noses at. It makes sense, but again, it's openly, unapologetically a desperate cry for attention from a comatose brand.

You can almost see the boardroom full of frazzled execs; "Let's see... skateboards didn't work... hip-hop clothes didn't work... that sci-fi thing in the far future didn't work... Jesus, when's the last time anyone liked us?!" "((Checks notes)) Um... that basketball movie from 20 years ago." "....Y'know what? F*ck it, lets just do that again. At least it's a headline."

They'll still be selling stuffed Bugs dolls until the heat death of the universe; that isn't my point. My point is, you can bet your bottom dollar that WB execs CAN'T STAND the fact that more kids today know Pikachu than Bugs Bunny, and they'd do anything to change that fact. I empathize with them, sincerely. I personally can't stand it either.

But if you don't truly think that they are, indeed, desperate, let me remind you: They're making a 20-years later sequel to a movie not a lot of people were in love with the first time. That is the very definition of, "We're completely out of ideas." If they had anything better, they'd have done it by now.
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Old 02-24-2019, 11:56 AM   #49
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I always thought Space Jam Lola HAD a personality: Independent, "empowered" (before that was a buzzword), confident go-getter who keeps fit, speaks her mind, and is a team player. We learn buckets about her despite her tragically limited screen time. Like yes, she's hot, but if she wasn't also a well-developed (pun may or may not be intended) character then people wouldn't still care half as much, or notice when her personality is presented "wrong" in another medium. I thought her personality as presented in the film was fine. It's hard to create a brand new character for a long-existing franchise and not "Scrappy-Doo" 'em, but they pulled it off very well.

Contrasted with her "personality" on the Looney Tunes Show: Clingy, obsessive, bubble-headed, co-dependent pseudo-stalker. They're NOT the same character at all. If one version of a character most likely couldn't even stand to be around another version of (ostensibly) the same character, someone has messed up badly. Not only are they not the same character, they wouldn't even be friends. That's just terrible, lazy writing. It's clear to me that they wanted Bugs to have a "girlfriend" for the show with that specific, off-putting personality, but were afraid to come up with a new character since they knew everyone would ask "Where's Lola?" So they just threw out everything about Lola that was endearing and made her an empty vessel to pour a new personality into because it better fit the project.

To me, it begs the question of WHY they wanted Bugs to have a "girlfriend" he secretly could barely tolerate to begin with, but hey, I'm not Warner Bros. For all we know, if they'd left well enough alone that show might still be on the air. Probably not, but I know very few people genuinely LIKED the change, and wanted to see the character they already knew and liked rather well. So it's hard to imagine the reception would have been any worse.
--------

I kind of liked the "slice of life" stuff with that show, and after all, it's nothing new, but I generally prefer that it be in small doses. As others have said, I grew up on "Looney Tunes" shows that were about 6-minute wacky skits that were as batsh*t crazy as possible. The entire point was being off the wall and imaginative. Seeing Bugs going about mundane tasks such as paying bills and whatnot is fun sometimes, but also completely misses the point. Again, you can do it sometimes, and they always have, but I feel like making that the entire show's premise was a mistake. People want to see Wile E. try and fail to catch the Road Runner, to disastrous comedic effect and grievous self-injury; nobody wants to see them sitting around a Starbucks making idle chitchat. Not more than once in a blue moon, anyway. It's a mishandling of the characters. Not an "assassination", but it definitely doesn't use them to their fullest potential, either.

"Mundane" isn't something Looney Tunes should ever be, in my opinion. But again, it's been a long time since anyone truly cared, so they're at a loss as to how to engage a newer audience, so they try these things. I get it. And I don't envy them, either. But it shouldn't be a mystery why it doesn't ultimately work.
Yeah, Lola was more memorable in the Space Jam movie. The way she was written completely different in the Looney Tunes show reminds me of TMNT, since that's a property that likes to change characters' personalities radically in different versions. And we all know the problems that might arise from that, don't we?

Yeah, that's basically what i was trying to say, but you summed it up better. Looney Tunes' appeal was all the whacky stuff in it and defying the laws of physics. All of that served as escapism from real life troubles. I don't want to sit through an entire episode of Daffy Duck or Bugs Bunny talking about their jobs and how much their electricity bill costs. It felt like I was watching a poorman's version of Tiny Toon Adventures. And speaking of which, I wonder if Tiny Toon Adventures was also a way for Warner Bros. to try and make a new generation of characters for kids to grow up with so that then those characters would grow up and taker over the classic ones?

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A remake would be flat-out bizarre. Even a sequel this many years later is a bit bizarre.

The original was such a perfect storm, I'm not at all sure how a new one might do. But I can't see it succeeding at the same level. Lebron was never the "force" in the larger culture that Jordan was, and basketball isn't the phenomenon it was in 1996, either. It helped that it was a passable kids' movie, but there were so many other cultural factors in play that it's hard to imagine the new one having even half of the impact.

For one thing, I think they're aiming for an entirely different audience: The original was clearly aimed at kids, while this one is a Hipster Nostalgia piece. Nobody under 30 is likely to care a lot, because "Looney Tunes" doesn't mean anything to anyone younger than that anymore. An entire generation has come up not giving two sh*ts about Bugs Bunny, which is tragic but still the truth. The whole temperature is different. It's weird.

I'm curious to see what happens, because I do like the original just fine for what it is - I just objectively recognize that it simply isn't great outside of nostalgia - but I'll be very surprised if it does extremely well. It feels more than a little desperate, and times have changed.
No idea how famous Lebron is in comparison to Michael Jordan, but the NBA is pretty popular worldwide. BY FAR the most popualr American sport worldwide. It's that sport anyone has played at some point or another in their lives alongside soccer.

Baseball is only popular in a few countries outside of USA, most notably Japan and South Korea. American football is a big question mark all over the world. Pretty much only USA and Canada care about it. The odds of finding people into it outside of these 2 countries is as likely as finding an original Mirage TMNT comics fan, seriously.

So yeah, I'd say Lebron is quite well-known around the world. His name, a least. No idea if he's more well-known than MJ, but that's hard to assess.

I think the only "American sports league" that can come close to NBA's popularity worldwide is the WWE. A lot of people grow up watching it as kids and a lot of people all over the world know who Hulk Hogan, The Rock, John Cena, etc. are.

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I think it’ll do fine. I’m guessing you don’t watch the NBA from one of your previous posts. I do. It’s the only sport I watch.

Lebron is definitely popular but does have a lot of naysayers too. Just different things. You would have had to watch the past 10 seasons or so understand.

There’s jokes going around about Bugs Bunny and characters getting traded.

Looney Tunes are not massively popular but they’re famous enough. I’m sure kids watch reruns of the classics and other versions that have come along.
I guess I'm getting old. I remember being a kid and absolutely loving Space Jam as did all of my classmates at the time as well. We also owned action figures form the toyline. Plus, we grew up watching Cartoon Network which aired a lot of old shows at the time, Looney Tunes included, and a lot of us liked them.

Also, there's been TONS of LT video games.

I guess Looney Tunes are just a product of its time and will just die off.
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Old 02-24-2019, 10:19 PM   #50
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@Leo656, I personally do not think each version that has come along since has been a desperate attempt to revive the brand. I see them more as just usual updates that a lot of shows get. Different versions at different times.

For example Scooby Doo. That has more incarnations I think. It’s not desperate. It’s totally it’s formula now. Traditional dtv movies and different on going shows. There’s also supposedly more live action movies in the works too.

I’m sure WB would love for Looney Tunes be as popular as something like Pokémon but I don’t picture them struggling to keep them afloat. Pokémon is far newer than LT anyway.
——
@Prowler, Ya there’s a lot of video games. Not that recently anymore though. Not full console games. There’s some mobile games.

Why would Looney Tunes die off? They’re a brand. Even if it’s had slumps.
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Old 02-24-2019, 10:46 PM   #51
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You don't have to think it for it to be true. That Scooby-Doo example is a terrible thing to cite, as once again, it does a much better job at proving MY point versus yours. I haven't watched the new shows, but going by short clips of the various newer series alone... yikes. "Desperation" isn't the word.

I don't think I'm the first person to point out that a "reboot", "repackaging", or "reimagining" is, by very definition, an act of desperation. Because if what worked before was still working, they'd have no reason to change. Ideas aren't like bread; they don't grow mold just because they've been around a while. But when you're no longer getting people's attention, and you start losing money, THAT is when things like "New And Improved!" start getting thrown around. "Newer" is rarely "better"; it's just "newer" and that's that. Very few reboots or "updates" ever capture the larger imagination in the same way the originals did. Why not? Simple: They're not "better", just shinier. And once the shine wears off, people stop caring again.

People don't have to agree with that, but... it's true anyway. Facts are like air; they exist regardless of whether anyone believes in them.

As for the brand dying off, I doubt that, but I think it will continue to go the way of Mickey Mouse: Only relevant as a logo on a T-shirt, and some quaint cartoons from our grandparents' day. The brand will meander from one clumsy repackaging to the next, but the visual look of the characters is too ingrained in our culture to ever fade away completely. It will just continue to be irrelevant. But it will still exist. Sh*t, they still make Raggedy Anne and Andy dolls, and nobody's given a single sh*t about that stuff in like 50 years. Stuff like that doesn't ever go away completely; they just stop meaning anything aside from being a kitschy piece of nostalgia.
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Old 02-24-2019, 11:31 PM   #52
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But there’s no realistic way Looney Tunes or Scooby could have remained the same from start to now.

I think Scooby is great example actually. Their traditional universe has managed to stick while still co-existing with whatever incarnation the tv series gets. That’s not “New and Improved” that’s staying relevant. Certainly more than LT.

I know some might think Scooby was just one of many HB cartoons from back in that era but it managed to be the most memorable and interesting.

How long is any incarnation of these cartoons supposed to last? That seems to depend more on the tone and time frame. Not a failed attempt or fizzling out.

What’s New? Mystery Inc, Be Cool and the next one exist for different reasons. Same with the different Looney Tunes shows that have gotten made.
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Old 02-24-2019, 11:34 PM   #53
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I think Scooby-Doo was always pretty bad in every incarnation, so I don't think it's a great example.
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Old 02-25-2019, 08:04 AM   #54
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Scooby has potential. Mystery Inc, the last half of the Scrappy era etc, Pup, the first four DTV movies, but it's biggest setback is the very formula that made it famous. Oh, and Daphne/Fred. F*ck that.
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Old 02-26-2019, 04:05 AM   #55
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TMy point is, you can bet your bottom dollar that WB execs CAN'T STAND the fact that more kids today know Pikachu than Bugs Bunny, and they'd do anything to change that fact. I empathize with them, sincerely. I personally can't stand it either.
Didn't Kids' WB! air Pokemon back in the day and help make it popular? They even canceled some Looney Tunes shows(Sylvester & Tweety mysteries I think) to focus more on that property I think. They must be regretting that now.
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Old 02-26-2019, 07:08 PM   #56
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I'unno, I've never paid Pokemon any attention in my life.
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Old 02-26-2019, 07:18 PM   #57
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I think Scooby-Doo was always pretty bad in every incarnation, so I don't think it's a great example.
I haven't watched Scooby-Doo since like 2001, so I am not really qualified to say if it's good or bad, since I was too young to have high standards yet, but the only episode I remember quite well after all these years is the crossover one with Johnny Bravo which was made in like 1999-2000, and that's because I loved Johnny Bravo. So I guess this says it all.

Also, I couldn't stand Scrappy even back then.

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I'unno, I've never paid Pokemon any attention in my life.
Tbh, Pokémon has been heavily localised/Americanised outside of Japan. Most of the world knows Satoshi as Ash Krtchum, Takeshi as Brock, Kasumi as Misty and most of the Pokémon names have been translated to English. I know the Germans and the French have made their own translations of several of the Pokémon's names, but those names are only known in French and German speaking countries.

So yeah, at this point I dunno if the general audience views Pokémon as a Japanese thing per se any more. Just like DBZ is an anime that's loved worldwide even by people who don't care about "those chinese toons". I remember this convo I had with a guy some years ago where I said I didn't care much for DBZ and he was like "wtf is your problem, kid? You don't like Dragon Ball?!", and some minutes later someone else at the table mentioned Naruto and the guy dismissed it with "Meh that's Chinese, who cares". I felt like saying "dude, this DBZ show you love is "Chinese" as well " but I figured it would have been pointless to tell him that, for some reason.

People are strange.
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:48 PM   #58
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Sonequa Martin-Green has been cast as Lebron's wife in the film.

https://deadline.com/2019/03/space-j...os-1202583878/

However, LeBron is apparently having a difficult time recruiting NBA players for this movie.

https://movieweb.com/space-jam-2-cast-no-nba-players/
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Old 06-20-2019, 09:08 AM   #59
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Reports: 'Space Jam 2' cast to include AD, CP3
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...include-ad-cp3
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Old 07-11-2019, 09:20 PM   #60
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Don Cheadle has landed a part in the film.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...-jam-2-1223943
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