TMNT #119 Preview and Discussion

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I'll be sure that all of my gay and non-white friends who vote Republican get the memo that they're hateful bigots.

According to the China Man, they ain't black if they didn't vote for him.

Must come as a shock when they find out. All those sleepless nights from now on.

[Leo656]

The gayest guy I know personally in real life voted for Trump.

He's like 6'5 and about 280lbs of solid muscle and looks like he knocks buildings over for fun, so I'm not about to tell him (or his husband) who they're "supposed" to vote for. I will trust him as an adult to make his own decisions.

"Diff'rent Strokes to move the woooooorld!"

[PurpleMusic]

You tell me one "right-wing" initiative that doesn't boil down to being about oppression or greed. Sure, centrists and corporate Dems are scum too, and some who identify as republican are really just on some delusional Libertarian kick, but in terms of policy, it's absolutely detrimental to humanity 100% of the time

[Leo656]

Secure borders, low taxes, and Voter ID laws aren't "greed and oppression", they're common sense to anyone with even a modicum of life experience.

For 99% of people who vote R, those are the things of paramount importance. Most of them don't give a single sh*t who marries/f*cks who or who gets an abortion, despite what HuffPo and Rachel Maddow will tell you.

Most conservatives simply want drugs and gangs out of their community, the right to keep most of their own money (which they've earned), and to ensure that illegal immigrants aren't skewing things in their favor by voting illegally. That's it, that's all.

And that's not "greed and oppression". Your Sociology professor lied to you.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by PurpleMusic

You tell me one "right-wing" initiative that doesn't boil down to being about oppression or greed. Sure, centrists and corporate Dems are scum too, and some who identify as republican are really just on some delusional Libertarian kick, but in terms of policy, it's absolutely detrimental to humanity 100% of the time

Yep. You're right. It's totally right of center that's the problem.

It was right wing that gave us Marxism and its derivatives: Communism, Socialism and Fascism. The slaughter of the Romanovs. The Holodomor. World War II. The Holocaust. The Great Leap Forward. Tiananmen Square. Civil wars galore in Africa and South America. The Khmer Rouge. North Korea. The annexation of Tibet. The hostile takeover of Hong Kong. Concentration camps for Uyghurs. COVID-f*cking-19. Oh, wait...

Boy, do I have a bridge do sell you!

Originally Posted by Leo656

Secure borders, low taxes, and Voter ID laws aren't "greed and oppression", they're common sense to anyone with even a modicum of life experience.

For 99% of people who vote R, those are the things of paramount importance. Most of them don't give a single sh*t who marries/f*cks who or who gets an abortion, despite what HuffPo and Rachel Maddow will tell you.

Most conservatives simply want drugs and gangs out of their community, the right to keep most of their own money (which they've earned), and to ensure that illegal immigrants aren't skewing things in their favor by voting illegally. That's it, that's all.

And that's not "greed and oppression". Your Sociology professor lied to you.

You mean conservatives/right wingers comprise the vast, silent majority of the population and are normal, sane people who just want to live out their lives in peace, security and prosperity, not caring one iota for artificial social divisions enforced by the left in order to gain power? Those bigots! /s

[Leo656]

Shocking, I know! But when you actually talk to these people instead of throwing stones from your glass house you learn a surprising amount about what makes 'em tick.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Shocking, I know! But when you actually talk to these people instead of throwing stones from your glass house you learn a surprising amount about what makes 'em tick.

Good luck getting a certain fringe of individuals to bother with that. And yet, in their eyes, it's everyone else who are the extremists...

[PurpleMusic]

[QUOTE=Leo656;1898588]Secure borders, low taxes, and Voter ID laws aren't "greed and oppression", they're common sense to anyone with even a modicum of life experience.

1. It's stolen land in the first place. Simple as that. It's not "my" country or "yours" and by the base concept of the US it needs to be open.

2. What no one seems to get is that taxes, used properly, are an investment, and that's why instead of universal Healthcare and higher education and more, we have predatory private systems that further inequality. Everything that's "taken" becomes something that's "given" in turn, for everyone's benefit. As members of a nation it should be all for one and one for all.

3. Voters already have ID, and while Republicans like to frame the issue as making it more secure, there are mountains of evidence that all this "election security" BS is about playing the odds that adding more hoops to jump through will disenfranchise more poor and minority voters. Also it sure seems like every time I hear about some one-in-a-million instance of actual fraud, it's a Republican doing it. Not to mention all these districts gerrymandered to **** so we end up with morons like Jim Jordan having any say in anything.

It is a single-minded greed that sits at the root of these ideas, or perhaps an ignorance of their effect on the world beyond the idea of personal comfort that one's been conditioned to believe. Capitalism and nationalism have no place in a world that celebrates and uplifts humanity, and whether you support the regressive social stances or not, you're still granting them more power to preach hatred. Peel back the veneer for even a second and you'll see it's all talk to rile people up while they loot you and get you to vote against your own best interests

It's completely beyond me that anyone who grew up on Turtles of all things could ever support any of that insanity. Growing up in the early 90s, with the kind of material I did, I thought we'd be living in a utopia by now because we did away with all the evil industrialists and actors of hate.

[Leo656]

Pssssssht. I was born in this country and can't get a valid ID because my birth certificate has misprints all over it and I can't afford the legal fees to get it fixed, so I couldn't vote if I wanted to. Meanwhile, Don Pablo can just stroll into any government building, show six forms of "ID" with six different names on 'em, and be validated to do anything they want. Tell me how fair THAT is.

As for the "stolen land" malarkey, we're crying over centuries-old spilled milk. Go fetch me a Native American so I can tell him "Get Over It". My ancestors come from Ireland; do not deign to speak to me about "bum deals", pal. "My people" were bleeding from the ass just as bad for just as long as anyone else has been. Guess what? Nobody cares about 'em. Oh well.

"Show me the people with the guns and the money, and I'll show you the motherf*ckers in charge."
- George Carlin

You don't have to like it, but you do have to accept that it is indeed The Way Sh*t Works.

Good luck on your Liberal Arts degree by the way.

[PurpleMusic]

Tell that to tiny face Charlie Kirk over there acting like Chairman Mao is the reason we should never work towards anything better and more equitable than hard capitalism. Have a ****ing spine. And I don't think for a second George Carlin would jive with that appropriation of his words. And you're still not looking at any bigger picture, it's all about you, with some racist rhetoric on the side. So easy for you to dismiss everything as "liberal arts" college student BS too. Like, even if that was the case for me, what do you have against people getting educated and coming to the logical understanding that conservative politics are not sustainable? What makes you some kind of authority?

It's like you all learned NOTHING from the lessons of your childhood heroes. I can see why Peter Laird burnt out, he had to have been so utterly disappointed during Vol. 4 to have to argue with his fanbase over a bunch of evil Reagan-era neocons and some total dolt like George Bush. Never in a million years would I have thought that Turtles fans would be trying to normalize the very thing they always fought against. This is our common ground, and it's beyond frustrating to see someone not put the pieces together.

And if you're really too broke to get your birth certificate fixed, who do you think is responsible for those underlying systemic circumstances to begin with? That's how it works, they hold us all down and try to convince us that our "freedom" is at stake if we organize against them. You must've been a 1920s strikebreaker in a past life

[Weapons@theready]

Can we close up shop on this one.

[Leo656]

Tell it to Che Guevara over there.

Oh, wait, Che Guevara hated gay people and even killed a few.

It's almost like leftists are disingenuous hypocrites, or something!

Originally Posted by PurpleMusic

And if you're really too broke to get your birth certificate fixed, who do you think is responsible for those underlying systemic circumstances to begin with? That's how it works, they hold us all down and try to convince us that our "freedom" is at stake if we organize against them. You must've been a 1920s strikebreaker in a past life

I'm honestly less offended or upset about me not being able to afford a lawyer, than I am with the fact that some guy who hopped a barb wire fence has more rights in this country than I do. 100% shouldn't be that way. Someone who cuts in line shouldn't get more cupcakes than I do, it's that simple.

And to the bold: I might well have been, unions are for lazy crybaby scumbags. Typical Left: "I want to finagle it so that I can't be fired for anything, ever, and get way more perks than people who work twice as hard as I do... even though I, personally, skate by doing the bare minimum." Sounds about right. "I Want, therefore I Deserve, even though I haven't Earned. I get by because I'm friends with the right people and know how to talk my way into things."

Life doesn't (or shouldn't) work that way, but thanks for playing.

OH. And just FYI, Carlin hated pie-in-the-sky Liberals just as much as he hated extremist Conservatives. As a rule, he hated anyone who was a disingenuous hypocrite no matter what side of the aisle they were on. Next time do your homework.

[PurpleMusic]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Tell it to Che Guevara over there.

Oh, wait, Che Guevara hated gay people and even killed a few.

It's almost like leftists are disingenuous hypocrites, or something!

I mean, look who's talking. That couldn't be further from arguing a coherent point on real-world, present-day conditions. And if you wanna go with historical examples I guarantee you there's a lot more blood on the hands of the imperialists, unchecked corporations, and white nationalists. ****, climate change alone already kills like 5 million a year. But noo, go ahead and sit there with your thumb up your ass like "Well shucks, I guess we just have to live with a dying, depleted world and dying, impoverished people lest those mean ol' leftists get their way" Look at yourself dude, you're acting like a massive propaganda mark and you're gonna twist yourself up trying to defend a system that treats you like dirt. It doesn't have to be all about just stepping over others to fight for some microscopic slice of the cake. We lift each other up and everything gets better for everyone.

[PurpleMusic]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Tell it to Che Guevara over there.

Oh, wait, Che Guevara hated gay people and even killed a few.

It's almost like leftists are disingenuous hypocrites, or something!

I mean, look who's talking. That couldn't be further from arguing a coherent point on real-world, present-day conditions. And if you wanna go with historical examples I guarantee you there's a lot more blood on the hands of the imperialists, unchecked corporations, and white nationalists. ****, climate change alone already kills like 5 million a year. But noo, go ahead and sit there with your thumb up your ass like "Well shucks, I guess we just have to live with a dying, depleted world and dying, impoverished people lest those mean ol' leftists get their way" Look at yourself dude, you're acting like a massive propaganda mark and you're gonna twist yourself up trying to defend a system that treats you like dirt. It doesn't have to be all about just stepping over others to fight for some microscopic slice of the cake. We lift each other up and everything gets better for everyone.

Oh, and **** "liberals" too, don't get me mixed up because they're just as dirty with the exception of a few social issues. Though I will say those House Republicans may be some of the stupidest, trashy SOBs I've ever seen. I may not like most Democrats, but, like, at least they're not at pudding-brain Louie Gohmert levels. This is beyond a bunch of establishment hacks

[Leo656]

On the flipside, I'm handsome and witty and people buy my T-shirts. That more than makes up for any other supposed shortcomings I may have.

Meanwhile, Communism and Socialism have killed billions more people than any other system ever created, but sure, tell me some more about how if we all just hold hands and dry-hump some trees while singing "Kumbaya" it'll all work out next time.

This was fun. I'm glad I made a new friend today.

To be clear and for the record: I'm neither Liberal nor Conservative. I just have open disdain for anyone who refuses to be pragmatic or accept objective reality. I assure you it's nothing personal.

[PurpleMusic]

Witty?! Could've fooled me. I hope you cut better promos than whatever this nonsense was. For the better part of this you've just completely ignored any actual substance and resorted to dismissive taunts and isolated examples that still don't stack up to the greater ramifications of what you believe in, even though it's actively holding you back personally as well.

You have an extremely self-centered worldview and have this misguided anger towards marginalized and oppressed peoples that you have more in common with than you seem to understand. I feel like until you can address that disconnect, you're not gonna be able to grow. I pity that you're trapped in that mindset and I hope you do some sincere reflection and hopefully gain some empathy. It's not a bad thing to see the world's screwed up and power's too consolidated in the hands of the few, and want to fight for better.

[Allio]

What in the *uck happened to this thread?

[PurpleMusic]

Originally Posted by Allio

What in the *uck happened to this thread?

TLDR: People need to lay off the trans bashing BS. ...Also conservative ideology on the whole is evil and manipulative.

Hell, I don't even actually read IDW, and this latest arc sounds just as terrible to me as most here seem to think, but I do know that kind of talk has no place among Turtles society and it just really frustrated me that anyone could even like TMNT while holding such disrespectful views

I've said my piece though, and I'm not gonna go on any more unless I end up seeing something too heinous to ignore.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Allio

What in the *uck happened to this thread?

The cat who's been here for five years but mostly only pops their head out to scream about Evil Republicans got a bee in their bonnet. It happens.

Originally Posted by PurpleMusic

You have an extremely self-centered worldview and have this misguided anger towards marginalized and oppressed peoples that you have more in common with than you seem to understand. I feel like until you can address that disconnect, you're not gonna be able to grow. I pity that you're trapped in that mindset and I hope you do some sincere reflection and hopefully gain some empathy. It's not a bad thing to see the world's screwed up and power's too consolidated in the hands of the few, and want to fight for better.

I'll be dead in a few decades, I completely don't give a sh*t. Also, please don't imply I have anything in common with criminals, lazy people, or people with no respect for Rule of Law. Other than the fact I'm not rich, I have f*ck-all in common with ANY of those so-called "oppressed" groups of people.

You're right, though, I'm purely motivated by self-interest and I've never made any secret of that. Because I understand something some people never will: I don't control "the world", and platitudes and wishful thinking won't change anything. People like you talk about "fixing the planet" and you might as well go try and punch out the ocean. You'll make exactly the same amount of progress when all is said and done.

I don't need, or want, the heartburn that goes along with trying to "fix" a goddamn thing. I accept things the way they are and am realistic enough to know that I'm not in a position to "fix" anything, nor do I care to. All any of us can do is play the cards we're dealt. That's Life. I'm here to get my kicks and have my laughs until it's time for lights out, that's it and that's all. I completely don't care if the planet falls off its axis and careens into the goddamn sun, whether it be tomorrow or 100 years from now. Nor should anyone; If it's out of your hands, it's out of your hands. And MOST of the things you're talking about being "wrong with the world" are completely out of your hands.

Sorry, I'm not bitter and joyless enough just yet to develop a "social conscience", that sh*t's for the birds. Don't feel sorry for me; I'm just a stone-cold Realist. That's not a bad thing, no matter how hard you try to spin it as such.

Again, nothing personal. It's just that hippies make me puke as a general rule.

Originally Posted by PurpleMusic

TLDR: People need to lay off the trans bashing BS. ...Also conservative ideology on the whole is evil and manipulative.

1. I, personally, never said anything about trans people in this thread, so leave me out of that conversation please.

2. The bold part of your comment is inflammatory hate speech, and also provably false. Which is entirely why I engaged with you in the first place. I don't like lying liars who lie. Call it a quirk.

No, seriously, that's mainly my issue here with you. Your bold insistence that nobody could ever possibly be both a conservative and a fan of TMNT despite MANY people on this very forum existing in defiance of that opinion. Everything else is just you and I goofing around, as far as I'm concerned. I got no "heat" with you, buddy, even though we clearly have some vast disagreements insofar as philosophy. But that's life, no harm no foul.

But the whole "people who vote Republican can't possibly be/don't deserve to be TMNT fans" thing you keep insisting upon... c'mon. You can't say goofy sh*t like that and expect someone not to call you on it. I just happened to get here first in a moment of boredom; if I didn't say something, someone else would've.

Like let's just honestly scrap everything else you and I've said, and focus JUST on that part...
You: "All conservatives are literally Pure Evil. Nobody who'd be a conservative could ever possibly be a real TMNT fan."
Me: "Nah."
You: "Yuh-huh!"

That's silly. You're being a silly person, saying stuff like that without a hint of irony.

It's just a good thing I saw that bit before Sumac did; I'm the Good Cop, he's... uh... Russian, I think. And he ain't as nice a guy as I am. You got off light, brother!

But it's whatever, we can be done. I just wish you wouldn't make such patently-false generalizations about people and then take offense when someone points them out as provably-untrue. That's all.

Good game, Champ. Have a nice day. If you're ever up Jersey-way I owe you one (1) adult beverage of your choice for being such a good sport.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by PurpleMusic

You have an extremely self-centered worldview and have this misguided anger towards marginalized and oppressed peoples that you have more in common with than you seem to understand. I feel like until you can address that disconnect, you're not gonna be able to grow. I pity that you're trapped in that mindset and I hope you do some sincere reflection and hopefully gain some empathy. It's not a bad thing to see the world's screwed up and power's too consolidated in the hands of the few, and want to fight for better.

Except Andrew never said anything about "marginalized and oppressed " people.

Also, saying that "conservative ideology on the whole is evil and manipulative", while supporting anything past and present Left-wing has to offer, is a hilarious lack of self-awareness.

Originally Posted by Leo656

It's just a good thing I saw that bit before Sumac did; I'm the Good Cop, he's... uh... Russian, I think. And he ain't as nice a guy as I am. You got off light, brother!

Russian Cop? Nah, they would just immediately started punching people in a face, instead of talking.