Batman: The Killing Joke

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Leo656

My thing is, I doubt they'll have Joker torture Gordon by bombarding him with photos of Barbara, naked and crippled. I think THAT is gonna be a little too far for them to try and do. What I have a feeling they'll do instead, is maybe have one of Joker's henchmen record him shooting her, and then maybe make Gordon watch THAT over and over again, just the video clip of her getting shot. I mean it's kinda weak, and MAYBE they'll keep it comics-accurate, but I'll be surprised if they fully Go There. I'll be thrilled if it's super-accurate, but we'll see.

I mean kids DO still watch these things, even though they're ostensibly aimed at an older audience. Parents don't care, they see "super-hero cartoons" and they buy the DVD for their kids, especially if it's Batman.

Like I said, Hush wouldn't be great as a "real" movie but it'd be great as one of these things. Public Enemies was really just "Superman and Batman vs. Everyone", and it was terrific, one of the best they've done. "Hush" as an animated feature would be no different, just an excuse to do Batman vs. his entire Rogues Gallery. There's a time for Story and a time for Fan Service. I've never had any problem at all with Hush being firmly in the latter category. It would look great as an animated feature. Since it sold huge numbers I have no doubt they'll get around to it one day.

Yeah, but the Dark Knight Returns did not have Nazi-covered nipples. So I wouldn't be surprised if DC did tread the line pretty closely...

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

If its anything like the Arkham Knight videogame which had a flashback of the Killing Joke, then the actual Joker/Batgirl scene is probably going to be extremely brief.

Don't forget in the "Under the Red Hood" movie, Joker torturing Jason Todd was extremely brief and being hit with the crowbar barely did any damage to his face and had minimal bleeding. It was no more extreme than the fight scenes seen in the Justice League cartoon.

Even though these movies are allowed to show death and have cursing, the actual fighting is barely any different than the cartoons.

Under the Red Hood was awesome.

For a cinematic Batman movie, I've always thought blending "The Killing Joke", "Mad Love" and "Death in the Family" would be an awesome idea for showing how the Joker breaks EVERYONE except for Batman... but maybe even Batman, too.

[sdp]

Under The Red Hood was a loose adaptation of Jason's revival not A Death in the Family, it was included since it was needed in the backstory. Not to mention A Death in the Family is a long and rather boring story.

The Killing Joke is rather short as well and nothing to do with Barbara if you really think about it, the sole reason she was even used was because DC hadn't used her in a long time so they gave the go ahead to cripple her.

Again, these DTVs have had plenty of sexual content before, it's not like we see Barbara nude in the comic, just brief nudity at best. The Catwoman short in the Year One DTV had far more sexual content than The Killing Joke could possibly have.

And my comment about Hammill was more about how he has been retiring the joker for nearly a decade and yet he keeps coming back so yeah he might come back.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

These movies have always been a very loose adaption of the comic stories. The two Damian Wayne movies they made basically mixed like 5 years worth of comic stories into two movies along with the Court of Owls.

Remember these movies aren't typically aimed at comic fans, they're aimed at people who never picked up a comic in their life but watched the other DC cartoons aired on TV. They were never meant to be 1:1 adaptions.

You're missing my point. Without the violence and brutality, *THIS* story has no reason for existing or being adapted. Even Moore has said, it's barely a story and more just a string of horrific events, depicted in graphic and horrifying ways that shattered the boundaries of what comics were "allowed" to get away with at the time.

Other stories can get away with some trimming to fit what the censors want, but This Story has no point WITHOUT any of that. The events depicted over the story itself are mundane by comic standards. "Secondary character gets shot. Ho hum. Joker kidnaps a supporting cast member and Batman rescues them. Sigh. We see a Joker origin that DC annoyingly insists is NOT the 'real' one, because they hate Alan Moore and still think one of their own hacks will one day write a better one." What made the book stand out was ENTIRELY the graphic violence and torture scenes. The rest of it is nothing special, frankly.

You can't water it down too much, or at all, without completely losing the point of it, is what I'm saying.

I'm with Cylons in expecting that they'll go pretty far, maybe even farther than we suspect. I'm just curious as to HOW much they'll be allowed to do, because I suspect they will have to trim it down SOMEwhere.

Originally Posted by <TmNtRoX-1997>

Not to mention A Death in the Family is a long and rather boring story.

No it's not! It was the one and only story where Jason wasn't portrayed as an insufferable prick who people WANTED dead. The whole story about finding his real mother was the only sympathetic story they'd ever done with him, and it was rather intriguing since it turned out a lot of what we thought we knew about his upbringing was false. And if you were reading the books at the time, all the stuff with the Joker trying to hijack nukes and making deals with the Ayatollah... that sh*t was GOLD at the time, since it was so topical.

Also, 4 issues. If that's a "long boring" story you must not have much of an attention span, no offense. Like all 80s comics, it's wordy, but you can still read it all in an hour.

[PangolinFeets]

Originally Posted by Leo656

You're missing my point. Without the violence and brutality, *THIS* story has no reason for existing or being adapted. Even Moore has said, it's barely a story and more just a string of horrific events, depicted in graphic and horrifying ways that shattered the boundaries of what comics were "allowed" to get away with at the time.

Other stories can get away with some trimming to fit what the censors want, but This Story has no point WITHOUT any of that. The events depicted over the story itself are mundane by comic standards. "Secondary character gets shot. Ho hum. Joker kidnaps a supporting cast member and Batman rescues them. Sigh. We see a Joker origin that DC annoyingly insists is NOT the 'real' one, because they hate Alan Moore and still think one of their own hacks will one day write a better one." What made the book stand out was ENTIRELY the graphic violence and torture scenes. The rest of it is nothing special, frankly.

You can't water it down too much, or at all, without completely losing the point of it, is what I'm saying.

I'm with Cylons in expecting that they'll go pretty far, maybe even farther than we suspect. I'm just curious as to HOW much they'll be allowed to do, because I suspect they will have to trim it down SOMEwhere.



No it's not! It was the one and only story where Jason wasn't portrayed as an insufferable prick who people WANTED dead. The whole story about finding his real mother was the only sympathetic story they'd ever done with him, and it was rather intriguing since it turned out a lot of what we thought we knew about his upbringing was false. And if you were reading the books at the time, all the stuff with the Joker trying to hijack nukes and making deals with the Ayatollah... that sh*t was GOLD at the time, since it was so topical.

Also, 4 issues. If that's a "long boring" story you must not have much of an attention span, no offense. Like all 80s comics, it's wordy, but you can still read it all in an hour.

That's why I'm not into this. Its either going to be entirely too dark for a Bruce Timm toon or a totally different story from what it was originally.
They're likely going to take ideas from TKJ and make it into something more action-packed.

[Leo656]

I'unno, I have a little more faith in them than that. I think it'll be fine, I'm just Curious as to what changes are going to be made.

I am expecting the whole Axis Chemicals "Joker Origin" scene to be dragged out and made as Big as possible, to give viewers the maximum amount of action stuff. That and the funhouse. They're definitely going to pad the heck out of those two scenes. I imagine some of the stuff with Joker as a "regular guy" before the accident will probably be trimmed so we don't empathize with him too much. Like we'll probably hear about his pregnant wife, but never see her, that kind of thing. Because if we see her, and get too involved in his backstory, we start wanting him to successfully pull off the robbery so he can support his family, and we get mad at Batman for accidentally dropping him into the chemicals, and we're not supposed to be rooting for the bad guy. But that's kind of the brilliance of the book and how it makes you think, which was fine for what the book did but I suspect that for this, they'll simplify it wherever they can.

[JakeSully]

Who wants Peter Chung of Original TMNT show/Aeon Flux/COPS (80s toon) fame to do the movie?

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

These movies have always been a very loose adaption of the comic stories. The two Damian Wayne movies they made basically mixed like 5 years worth of comic stories into two movies along with the Court of Owls.

Remember these movies aren't typically aimed at comic fans, they're aimed at people who never picked up a comic in their life but watched the other DC cartoons aired on TV. They were never meant to be 1:1 adaptions.

I can't say this for a 100%, but the Return of the Dark Knight movies and Batman Year One were pretty much spot on, except for the lack of eternal monolog in Dark Knight returns.
so it can happen.

[MikeandRaph87]

Mark Hamill wants to voice The Joker in The Killing Joke adaptation. He is officially hired to do the role, but if he wants it I bet it is his.
http://collider.com/animation-news-7/

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Mark Hamill wants to voice The Joker in The Killing Joke adaptation. He is officially hired to do the role, but if he wants it I bet it is his.
http://collider.com/animation-news-7/

I said the same thing on page 1. He has said this a few times over the years. But anyways I find it hard for WB to not give the green light for Mark Hamill on this project especially sense Bruce Tim is spear heading the project and he was the one who hired Hamill on in the animated series. So I find it hard to believe he won't be reprising his role as the joker.

[NinjaPug]

Looks like Hamill voicing the Joker is official. Great news.

http://collider.com/batman-the-killi..._medium=social

[CyberCubed]

Hammil but no Kevin Conroy as Batman? Those two go together like bread and butter, if it isn't seeing them interacted it just won't be the same.

Come to think of it, I don't think Mark Hammil ever voiced the Joker in anything that Kevin Conroy also wasn't in.

[Jester]

Do we have confirmation Conroy ain't attached?

[TurtleTitan97]

Originally Posted by Jester

Do we have confirmation Conroy ain't attached?

They haven't announced anyone for the role of Batman yet.

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by NinjaPug

Looks like Hamill voicing the Joker is official. Great news.

http://collider.com/batman-the-killi..._medium=social

Awesome news!!!! Really glad!!!

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Hammil but no Kevin Conroy as Batman? Those two go together like bread and butter, if it isn't seeing them interacted it just won't be the same.

Come to think of it, I don't think Mark Hammil ever voiced the Joker in anything that Kevin Conroy also wasn't in.

I will be upset if Conroy does not voice Batman. If anyone attached to this project reads this post please let me stress how upset I WILL BE IF KEVIN CONROY DOES NOT VOICE BATMAN!!!!!

[Leo656]

And people accuse me of living in the past. Yeesh.

I mean, it's neat, but holy sh*t, relax.

[Cure]

I get annoyed whenever the same people do the same voice over and over. I prefer hearing new voices.

[ProactiveMan]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Yeah, but the Dark Knight Returns did not have Nazi-covered nipples.

Didn't it? I could have sworn it did.

The Killing Joke has a rep but it's more suggestive than explicit, I mean, they packed it in with an action-figure a few years ago. I think they can probably get fairly close based on some of the content I've seen in Assault on Arkham and The Dark Knight Returns.

I kinda want them to make an adaptation of Knightfall, even though it would probably be nine hours long and fairly tedious in places. It would make a good one-shot TV series though.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Cure

I get annoyed whenever the same people do the same voice over and over. I prefer hearing new voices.

My thing is, he's fine at That Version of Joker, but that's not Joker in my head. It's by definition a watered-down cartoon version. The "real" Joker is a much darker character and nothing in Hammill's delivery matches up to that, not even in the games. It's too light and "goofy" and hung up on the jokes. The Joker Is Not A Clown.

He's great at the version he does, and he's better than almost everyone who ever played him in general, but I don't think it's a sadistic or menacing enough voice for the darker, more comics-oriented version of the character.

Y'know, the guy who skins people alive just to watch 'em die. That's The Joker, but it's NOT Mark Hammill's Joker. So yeah, I like him but I'm fine when other people get a crack at it. I don't think he's quite the right fit for this project, and once again people's nostalgia has just forced DC's hand.

I mean, it's fine. There's been worse. The guy in Red Hood, as I recall, was awful. Off the top of my head, I can't think of who I'd pick for Killing Joke, but I wouldn't have picked Mark. Not for this one.

[Cure]

I just wanna see and hear different takes on familiar characters. But like you said, never gonna happen with people being nostalgia junkies.

[CyberCubed]

The funny thing is Mark Hamil said he was retiring from playing the Joker back when Arkham City came out in 2011...yet he's come back again. It obviously isn't for the money because this is friggin Luke Skywalker and the man is loaded, but I guess he just loves playing the character.