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06-26-2022, 05:48 AM | #1 |
Overlord
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Does 'Shredder's Revenge' Retcon Turtles Forever & The 2012 Crossovers? (Spoilers)
I watched a playthrough and
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06-26-2022, 06:21 AM | #2 |
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No? Why would that contradict Turtles Forever? If anything it would explain why they still have the Technodrome at the start of Turtles forever and how it was possible for Ch'rell to make such drastic modifications to it without them ever being in the show.
As for the crossovers with the 2012 show, those just kind of expects you to forget anything you knew about Krang's backstory, what Dimension X was and that Traag wasn't a giant mute monster that puked lava. Despite what some people might try to claim, the 2012 crossovers make absolutely no sense with what the FW cartoon established. Regardless, I don't think either crossover really put much thought into how it would fit into the show. Remember here, it's not the show itself that people are attached to, it's their vague memories of the show. Most people who are interested in Shredder's Revenge, Turtles Forever or the 2012 crossovers because of the FW turtles probably don't care about details like how the show ended or what Krang was because they don't care to remember those details in the first place. Uh... Oh yeah, does game care to explain what happened to Dregg or why April is back working for Channel 6? Because, while I haven't played it, something tells me the game tried to touch on the Red Sky seasons as little as possible, for similar reasons I already talked about. |
06-26-2022, 10:01 AM | #3 | |||
Megan Fox = April
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I'm surprised they even went through the lengths to imply that these things happened in the game. I'm impressed and it also seems that the people from the game did more research than the crew for the Turtles Forever / 2012 crossovers.
As far as the question I'd say that Turtles Forever/2012 crossovers despite doing less research would be more "canon" than a tie-in video game even if they showed more care towards continuity so it can't retcon something in a higher tier of canon. Second I think we can now look at two possible placements of the timeline for the crossovers. Most people wanted to place them around season 4 since it's what the turtles most resembled tone wise and things matched but if we want to take Shredder's Revenge as canon then we can guess that the Technodrome was rebuilt and the tone of the show eventually went back to season 4 levels after season 10 so Turtles Forever/2012 could've happened after season 10. Not my solution since season 10 makes a good finale and I don't like the turtles resetting to season 4 with Shredder never defeated but whatever. I think the new comics will likely also sort of ignore the red sky seasons while still taking place after them. They won't go into details but perhaps a line of dialog of how they rebuilt the technodrome or something despite the comic resembling more the TMNT of those early seasons. But who knows I also think the new comics will have them using smartphones and other modern technology. Quote:
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06-26-2022, 10:09 AM | #4 |
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06-26-2022, 10:25 AM | #5 | |
Megan Fox = April
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The episode where Krang grows a body never specifies that it's what his species looks like. It might be implied but never outright said in the episode, just that he is growing a body. So it's just him growing a body not HIS body since he's a brain as it hsd preciously been shown in the 87 cartoon. |
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06-26-2022, 11:53 AM | #6 |
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I still don't understand why everyone racks their brain trying to make the two crossovers and the original show totally "make sense." The 87 show itself never totally made sense. It was a cartoon from the 80s. That means it's full of continuity errors and blatent retcons as it changes established bits of info from one season to the next whenever it was convenient. It's just how most cartoons from that era were. So does the 2012 crossover totally line up with the '87 show? It doesn't matter, because the '87 show doesn't totally line up with the '87 show. Does the game totally line up? No, but neither does the old show. It may as well be a new episode where they pretend what they did before didn't happen the way they said it did, which happened ALL THE TIME. In that sense they fit right in.
Last edited by Zog The Magnificent; 06-26-2022 at 11:59 AM. |
06-26-2022, 12:26 PM | #7 | |
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06-26-2022, 12:40 PM | #8 |
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Shredder's Revenge is basically a sequel to the Konami game universe which in itself was its own separate universe from the original carton.
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06-26-2022, 01:38 PM | #9 |
Weed Whacker
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Yeah, this is stupid. Did anyone ever look for things in TMNT 1-4, Hyperstone Heist and Tournament Fighters that contradict the cartoon? We're just starting now, with Shredder's Revenge?
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06-26-2022, 02:50 PM | #10 |
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06-26-2022, 03:55 PM | #11 | ||||
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I'm not so sure it's on the agenda to make a season 11 because:
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I know that for many franchises, canon is effectively just a fandom creation with the authors themselves rarely caring, but if we are to take the concept seriously, then there are effectively two criteria to stick to in order for it to hold any meaning:
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I don't know if this is easy to forget or something, but the Konami games weren't exactly this slavishly faithful to the cartoon. Yeah, they used the Fred Wolf cartoon as the core template because that's what nearly all kiddy TMNT products did at the time. But they also weren't afraid of pulling from the Archie series, the live-action movies or Mirage. That's the obvious difference between this game and those games. If this game didn't contain an explanation for how the Technodrome was brought back after it's destruction in the show and/or had a boss fight with Hun or someone else who wasn't ever part of the FW show, I don't think we'd be having this conversation. That said, I'd probably only be slightly surprised if the DLC/sequels to this game features characters like Hun or Savanti Romero. Like I've already pointed out, Paramount are only really interested in the FW show because it's good for marketing, they might just see this game a launchpad for a successful video game series in it's own right rather a serious attempt to create a zombie version of the FW era. |
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06-26-2022, 09:19 PM | #12 | |
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06-27-2022, 12:22 AM | #13 |
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I'm working on about a gajillion projects right now, I haven't had any time. I'm also not a hardcore gamer devotee as I was a decade ago.
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06-27-2022, 12:50 AM | #14 |
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06-27-2022, 01:48 AM | #15 |
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I don't mean to insult, but no. As others have mentioned it is clearly it is a Konami sequel. "Big Apple 3 AM" and now "Big Apple 3 PM" and so forth. This is not like something illusive. And the Konami games were just a jambalaya of cartoon/toy crap. Which was fine! But it is what it is there. If you want to pretend this is some kind of long awaited Fred Wolf sequel, go ahead, but also know that that's dumb.
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06-27-2022, 05:00 AM | #16 |
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No offence taken Andrew At least I wasn't the only one 'thinking' it judging from the screengrab shared by Ninjister. |
06-27-2022, 08:17 AM | #17 | ||||
Megan Fox = April
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I'm a fan of something called CUPO: Canon Until Proven Otherwise. If a character doesn't exist in one universe or a story point that is prevalent in other continuities doesn't mean he doesn't exist in that continuity but more of a we just haven't been told that story yet in this universe. So yeah Super Shredder was never seen but it's likely that a similar story could've happened in the 1987 universe and so on albeit differently, or perhaps it didn't.
Oh and I definitely don't want a season 11 of the 87 show or want this game to be considered "hard" canon as I stated before in the thread. Just debating continuity is fun for me. Quote:
For your first point it's a bad one since word of god might be different from what the company wants, and the company will retcon word of god the first chance it gets even in the same show and they own the IP. However the company also doesn't care enough about the franchise to mantain a consistent canon. So I think it's easier to judge by the second point but I'd phrase it more as "What makes the most sense with the in universe rules the franchise has established?". Obviously there's also the fact that every franchise has a tiered canon and a movie series will ignore "canon" comics or video games since the next director will not care to use that so even if the original creator made the first movie and some comics after that the movie series would be the numbered sequels and so on. With the "original creator timeline' being a different one from the movie series and whatnot. Quote:
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This game was clearly made to be in continuity with the show and it's basically the first game the 1987 cartoon gets. Now I'm not saying it's "canon" because as with any spin-off well, it really isn't since it will be ignored if anyone actually made a season 11 of the cartoon. Not that I want or think it's possible we'd get a season 11, but in the extremely unlikely scenario it would ignore the game obviously but if you're a fan of the 87 show and want it to be part of your "headcanon" there's no issue there, it's clearly meant to fit with the cartoon. This is just marketing, they don't want to piss off autistic fanboys. People involved always give vague comments like this to appease most of the fanbase, hell it's what Kevin Munroe did here in the technodrome with his movie "oh yeah it's in loose continuity with the movies, up to the fans to decide" etc. Clearly the game wants to be seen as a part of the cartoon but they don't want to be inundated by fans questions about why it doesn't fit into the shows continuity with every small mistake they can find. The whole "1987 had no hard continuity" comment is pure BS. It wasn't serialized storytelling like TMNT 2k3/2012 but it clearly had a continuity and storyline it followed. The only big continuity problems we have are Krang's body which isn't a big deal and can be explained and there being two different versions of Atlantis. Other than that the show is very consistent. |
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06-27-2022, 08:51 AM | #18 |
Overlord
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Idk, it kinda feels like a sequel where sometime between now and I guess Turtles in Time/Hyperstone Heist the Technodrome was destroyed and Krang's body was dismantled. Now they're trying to reassemble Krang's body and get revenge on the turtles.
Kinda makes sense since most every game ends with the Turtles blowing up the Technodrome anyway.
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06-27-2022, 12:51 PM | #19 |
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Guys, the show is the show. The only thing that ever really mattered to the '87 show is the show itself. Everything else isn't necessarily canon, and takes the show's history in broad strokes. If you know the basic details of this continuity, then everything from the games to crossovers will make sense. They don't all fit together but they were never written to in the first place. If you know that the four turtles were raised by Hamato Yoshi, who became Splinter, are enemies with Shredder, who's got a robot army and teamed up with Krang, and know about some of the side characters, you'll be fine. Those basic details, the general feel, and some easter eggs and mythology gags are all that any further installments, short of a true sequel, are going to take into account. Getting confused or annoyed that it doesn't all line up, and then acting like it breaks canon when even the old show didn't have a consistent canon, is dumb.
Also, when people involved with the game give a clear answer to the nature of the game's continuity, you can't just dismiss it and say it doesn't count just because it doesn't prove your point. |
06-27-2022, 09:56 PM | #20 | |
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