Tales of the TMNT #69

[willtupper]

Filthy. Just filthy.

Although now I'm kind of disappointed that Facebook doesn't have a "punch" feature.

And furthermore...

Spoiler:

Will Tupper "likes" this Forum post .

Originally Posted by The Ninjinister

How about you just "Poke" him on Facebook?

[willtupper]

Oh hi, everybody. When did you get here?

Just to add a bit of relevant information to this DEEP and MEANINGFUL discussion, Midtown Comics (www.midtowncomics.com) has Tales #69 (huh, huh) listed as dropping THIS Wednesday, April 28th.

So all the rest of us will hopefully get it then. Yay! Because I'm really looking forward to this issue. I think Mr. Berger is a HYPER-underrated writer, and I've always been fond of Shadow as a character.

Will be bittersweet, though. But so it goes.

[Ninjinister]

Bittersweet, hell. It's downright f***ing depressing.

I found at least six times where I felt like I'd been punched in the gut.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by The Ninjinister

Bittersweet, hell. It's downright f***ing depressing.

I found at least six times where I felt like I'd been punched in the gut.

Whats really depressing is how little the amount of people posting about the second to last issue is.

:/

[Vivi]

I haven't checked in the city if it's in yet, but being international it may be a while. Already I'm burning with the question...

Spoiler:

What did Shadow do to Donatello?

[The Big Bad]

Wow, Berger's been on a roll, lately--they should sell the TMNT more often.

While I initially found the issue to be a tad wagnsty, it's the sort of thing which gets better with re-reading.

Random thoughts:

I was initially bothered by the fact that the "present day" scene is obviously meant to take place during Shadow's early teenage years, since we've never really seen Raph take an active role in Shadow's training; however, once I remembered that Raph is always the one that appears in the early Shadow stories, and the continuity makes a bit more sense. It also adds a new layer of subtext to all of them. However, it also adds a few complications, such as the fact that Raph apparently knew of the Utrom arrival years before it happened.

Like Raph losing an eye, the world eventually getting crapsacked by global warming now seems to be turning into a consistent thing across incarnations (except, markedly, the 2k3 cartoon). I actually quite like it.

A moment of fridge brilliance: while it initially seemed a bit weird to have...

Spoiler:

...the Utroms introduce intergalactic trade to a planet heading towards extinction, upon thinking about it, it makes a lot more sense: humans would be a lot more receptive towards relocation if they'd already interacted with other alien worlds.

Given how the reader's sympathy for Shadow...

Spoiler:

...rests almost entirely on the fact that he or she doesn't know what she did, I wonder if revealing how people would feel if it were revealed that her actions were indeed just as bad as everyone hints. After all, Don could just have been the beginning...

[Cipher]

So, I won't have the issue for a little while, but knowing the basics, I can at least ask a few "What the future?" kind of questions.

Spoiler:

So, the ending rather strongly implies that these events do come to pass in some form or another, and that's backed up by what images of the future are explained. So how does it affect each little glimpse, either in terms of support or contradictions? In my opinion ...

Supports:

Donatello being blind in the Tales Collected Book (assuming Shadow did it). Raph at the end of #55, complete with Michelangelo being missing (as in, he relocated with the Utroms).

Contradicts:

#40 and #41, unless people have started to return to Earth by 2066. That could work, as Tokyo still seems rather post-apacolyptic in #40. But Leo's living in a pretty pristine world in #41, so who knows?

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by Cipher

Spoiler:

Supports:

Donatello being blind in the Tales Collected Book (assuming Shadow did it). Raph at the end of #55, complete with Michelangelo being missing (as in, he relocated with the Utroms).

Contradicts:

#40 and #41, unless people have started to return to Earth by 2066. That could work, as Tokyo still seems rather post-apacolyptic in #40. But Leo's living in a pretty pristine world in #41, so who knows?

I'm pretty curious myself...

Spoiler:

As far as the epilogue in Tales 55 goes, I am a bit puzzled, since Raph has his eye patch in that story. The logical explanation is that he remains in the swamp after the loss of his eye and eventually grows insane, but I suppose it's possible he made another trip back to New York or something like that. Clearly he tracks down Karai and the foot after the loss of his eye, so perhaps it really does make sense for Raph to travel after the loss of his eye until he returns to the swamp for good and goes off the deep end.

Regarding the future Leo story in 41, I don't think Tales 69 requires the assumption that every major earth city is flooded beyond repair, although perhaps Utrom technology could have resurrected the habitual environment of the planet at some point.

This looks like a job for... Super Spengs!

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

Spoiler:

Regarding the future Leo story in 41, I don't think Tales 69 requires the assumption that every major earth city is flooded beyond repair, although perhaps Utrom technology could have resurrected the habitual environment of the planet at some point.

Spoiler:

But the planet looks extremely populated in that issue. It'd have to be well after any disaster.

Logical conclusion is that the relocation is temporary. Raph's primitive period as we see it in #69 and #55 is temporary as well until the world starts to repopulate, although he may return to it in old age as well.

That is, as far as I can see, the only way to keep #40 and #41 in continuity. And it's not a huge stretch.

Raph loses eye ----> Cameo in #55 -----> World begins to repopulate by 2066 and events of #40 occur, -----> Events of #41 occur, all taking place after 2066, as Leo looks middle-aged even in his earliest appearence in that issue

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by Cipher

Spoiler:

That is, as far as I can see, the only way to keep #40 and #41 in continuity. And it's not a huge stretch.

Heh... I wouldn't mind retconing Tales #41 to one of those "improbable" alternate futures.

Originally Posted by Powder

Whats really depressing is how little the amount of people posting about the second to last issue is.
:/

You also have to remember that not everyone will have a chance to get it until this week.

[Cipher]

Heh... I wouldn't mind retconing Tales #41 to one of those "improbable" alternate futures.

Why does no one else understand how awesome that issue is once you get over the (implied) Turtle/human romance? Plus it fills in information given to us as far back as "Loops."

And writing off any of the future issues as an alternate timeline now would just be hella lame. One of the best things about the series is that where any other comic would've said, "This is only a possibility," Turtles keeps showing us depressing glimpses of the future and saying, "Yeah, this is just what happens. Sh*t's rough." Anything else would be a cop-out.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by Cipher

once you get over the (implied) Turtle/human romance?

Eh... I guess that's the thing. For me anyway.

I will admit that the general themes of vengeance vs. forgiveness are intriguing in that issue. I'd like to see the non-violent Leo's journey to enlightenment explored a bit more, but it seems we've run out of issues.

[The Big Bad]

Yeah, I'm with Cypher: Tales #41 is awesome, and one of my favorite issues in the series.

The problem with its conflicting accounts accounts of the future is that the cities described in and #41 are all places that would be very much affected by global warming; San Francisco, Hong Kong...one would assume these places would be deep-sixed by any global catastrophe. Still, a competent enough fanwanker could still try to reconcile both accounts.

[discordiatookie]

Originally Posted by Powder

Whats really depressing is how little the amount of people posting about the second to last issue is.

:/

Trying so hard not to click on the spoilers. Reason I ain't in here yet is because:

Firstly the question you all want answered is what the hell is going on with deliveries? Well we've only had a book restock so far this week, due to disruption of flights with volcanic activity in Iceland. Happily since then the flight embargo has been lifted, and we expect delivery on Tuesday. Equally happily, the delivery will include the FCBD stock, so that should go ahead as planned. In the meantime we have a sale event for you tomorrow to make up for all the missing stock.

Effin volcano in Iceland messing with my comic shop! Aaargh! So comics should be here tomorrow, although I won't get there til the end of the week now.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Powder

Whats really depressing is how little the amount of people posting about the second to last issue is.

:/

I'm with Discordiatookie, I'm sure I'll have something to say once I have the book in hand, but for some reason my local comic shop doesn't seem to get stuff until a week after everyone else.

[TristanHuwJones]

I think this is ultimately where the biggest problem lies with the comics -- the seeming lack of collaboration. Back when it was just Murphy writing (pretty much), it wasn't so much of a problem, because a lot of the material was his and it linked together, or it was by other people linking into previous TMNT canon. A big problem, at least from my standpoint when I was writing for Mirage, was the lack of collaboration when it came to cross-checking stories with other writers. I could be wrong, but that's just the vibe I took. It felt like no-one really knew what was happening with other books they weren't involved in in a writing capacity, and didn't really know until it either came out or it hit the editing stage, which in some cases, may have been too late to adjust certain stories to make them fit into the grander scheme of things. For instance, when I was writing the Gang Wars stories, if I had've known about Dan's Madhattan Maulitia story, I would've tweaked mine a bit to accommodate those events. Same with Ryan's sequel to #50, and a few other stories. It's not some kind of EPIC gripe, because I still love the books and everyone who worked on them, and had the time of my life on them, I just think the books would've probably worked a touch better if everyone knew what everyone was doing. I know Dan tried to get this to work as time went on, and that it was a hard thing to do as well. I also don't mean to imply that nobody cared either, I think it's just that everyone was kind of into their own stories and the approval process meant it was harder to work things like that, and in my mind, that slight lack of creative cohesion meant we had some disjointed stories.

Regarding #41, I know when we were going over the timeline for the Mirage Universe sourcebook, there were some stories that were being "ignored" to an extent for a number of reasons, but largely because of really conflicting information. #41 was one of them... there were a couple of others, but I can't recall them off the top of my head... a few from Vol.1 and maybe one or two from Tales Vol.2...

[willtupper]

I loved it! Even the

Spoiler:

open-ended question of, what ultimately happened?

The

Spoiler:

deus ex machina of them going "Back to the Future,"

which is usually something I hate, actually felt natural and honest here.

Just great writing, all around. I think Dan & Murph really wrote the best character-driven stories of the series.

And it's sad that they're rarely (if ever) recognized for this.

[Venom]

Originally Posted by willtupper

I loved it! Even

The

Spoiler:

deus ex machina of them going "Back to the Future,"

which is usually something I hate, actually felt natural and honest here.

Felt my flux capacitor fluxing so I had to post.

Anyway, I whole-heartedly agree with the sentiments regarding Berger and Murph.

[willtupper]

1.21 Gigawatts!

Originally Posted by venom

felt my flux capacitor fluxing so i had to post. :d

[Coola Yagami]

Great scott!!!